Oregon ripping vs Homemade stihl review

[MR4WD]

Oregon leaves a rougher finish, is quite a bit more grabby and seems to stretch more.

The full comp stihl (full chisel) I squared the top plate up to 10 degrees (with the eycrometer and a file) and a quick two passes to round off the rakers seems to stay sharper, cut faster and bumps through the knots easier than the oregon. Neighbor says the stihl cuts smoother than his bandmill.

I'll measure later but I think the oregon makes a narrower kerf. I know it's got a longer top plate, so it would accept more sharpenings then the stihl, which you sacrifice a lot of to bring from 30 to 10 degrees. Biggest thing is the amount of time it takes to handfile the chain for a 42" bar from cutting to ripping.

 

[DRB]

What are you cutting?

I have been using Oregon RD ripping chain on a 36" and 28" bars with almost no stretching. I figure the saw kerf is about 3/8".

 

[BobL]

Oregon leaves a rougher finish, is quite a bit more grabby and seems to stretch more.

I'm not convinced the differences you are seeing are due to chain brands.

For a same size chain, the kerf, finish and grabbiness should be mostly functions of how a chain is sharpened and the type of wood involved. I can make any chain (well Oregon, Carlton and Stihl anyway) cut smooth or rough, bigger or smaller kerf, and grabby or not grabby.

These days, stretchiness is mostly due to how a chain is treated, run it blunt so it overheats and any chain will stretch.

 

[BIG JAKE]

I've heard folks say the oregon stretches a little more than the stihl chain. Might be something to that. True test would be to sharpen both using the same grinder, same saw/bar, alternating cuts in same log, then take the chain apart and measure chain end to end under maybe 10 lbs of tension. Take the before/after lengths and compare. Would be interesting to see timed cuts also. Chain styles depth gauges set the same too. I've only used the woodland pro ripping chain which is semi chisel 10 deg. Leaves a pretty smooth finish but my bandmill is smoother. That's the way to find out what you like though.

 

[BobL]

I've heard folks say the oregon stretches a little more than the stihl chain. Might be something to that. True test would be to sharpen both using the same grinder, same saw/bar, alternating cuts in same log, then take the chain apart and measure chain end to end under maybe 10 lbs of tension. Take the before/after lengths and compare. Would be interesting to see timed cuts also. Chain styles depth gauges set the same too. I've only used the woodland pro ripping chain which is semi chisel 10 deg. Leaves a pretty smooth finish but my bandmill is smoother. That's the way to find out what you like though.

It doesn't even need to be that complicated. What one would be trying to measure is the force at which a chain becomes non-elastic ie does not return to a nominal original length. I would just hang the chains on a bar and then hang say 10 lb weight on each chain and measure their lengths. Then increase the weights to 15 lb for 1 minute and then go back to 10 lb and measure the lengths, then 20, then 25 etc. At some weight the chains will not return to its 10 lb lengths - this is the weight at which chain has become non-elastic. We're actually not trying to measure how elastic it is but the point at which it become non-elastic. A better quality chain will stay elastic for a higher tensile force. My bet is it will be difficult to tell them apart within 5Lb and you would have to repeat the experiment with 1 lb weights at close to the point of non-elasticity.

 

[BIG JAKE]

It doesn't even need to be that complicated. What one would be trying to measure is the force at which a chain becomes non-elastic ie does not return to a nominal original length. I would just hang the chains on a bar and then hang say 10 lb weight on each chain and measure their lengths. Then increase the weights to 15 lb for 1 minute and then go back to 10 lb and measure the lengths, then 20, then 25 etc. At some weight the chains will not return to its 10 lb lengths - this is the weight at which chain has become non-elastic. We're actually not trying to measure how elastic it is but the point at which it become non-elastic. A better quality chain will stay elastic for a higher tensile force. My bet is it will be difficult to tell them apart within 5Lb and you would have to repeat the experiment with 1 lb weights at close to the point of non-elasticity.

More fun to run the saws!

 

[MR4WD]

I'm not convinced the differences you are seeing are due to chain brands.

For a same size chain, the kerf, finish and grabbiness should be mostly functions of how a chain is sharpened and the type of wood involved. I can make any chain (well Oregon, Carlton and Stihl anyway) cut smooth or rough, bigger or smaller kerf, and grabby or not grabby.

These days, stretchiness is mostly due to how a chain is treated, run it blunt so it overheats and any chain will stretch.

The oregon is brand new out of the box, never used installed on the 42 and cut 2 slabs off a ponderosa slab I already made up with stihl. Only real difference is the stihl is full chisel, oregon is semi;

All the saw shops around here swear oregon stretches more than stihl. They can't all be wrong I will agree though, they oregon seemed more blunt out of the box than the stihl I made up.

 

[DRB]

I thought most chain stretch came from wear at the chain link pins.

I also notice that Oregon chain out of the box seems to cut rough. As I sharpen the chain I change the cutter hook angle so that it is more straight up and down rather than hooked over. This seems to make the chain less grabby and a smoother cut. But a slower cut.

 

[BobL]

I thought most chain stretch came from wear at the chain link pins.

Actually you are right - meaning that both my proposed experiment and Jakes are somewhat worthless.

In that case there are two kinds of stretch or chain extension.

The permanent elongation of the chain when it is first used. Unless the chain is really badly treated, this is not due to wear as the chain hasn't done enough rpm to cause that much wear. This is really just the chain settling in and loosening up any tightish joints etc. It is also a measure of how well a chain is made.

The second is caused by the slow deformation of the circular shape of the pins and corresponding holes over the life of the chain - this is caused by a combination of over tightening or wrong tightening of chain, how dirty a chain gets and plain old wear. The only way to test this is to do a lifetime test.

 

[LAndrews]

I'm looking at the package for a Stihl chain and it claims that the chain is 'Pre-stretched for less adjustment'. I don't know how they do that...

 

[Brmorgan]

I'm looking at the package for a Stihl chain and it claims that the chain is 'Pre-stretched for less adjustment'. I don't know how they do that...

Maybe the folks who "pre-shrink" jeans can help us out on that one... I'm not sure how that works either.


The Stihl chain should cut faster if it's full-chisel as opposed to the semi Oregon. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if it does stay sharp better - I don't have any hard evidence to back this up, but from my experience with it, Stihl chain seems to have noticeably harder cutters. At least they seem harder to file.

DRB, is that full-chisel you're talking about? Because it will really bite in sideways and cut rough if it has an aggressive hook, though it's not as much of a problem with semi-chisel because of the lack of a sharp point on the cutter. I learned that one the hard way last summer. However I file my semi-chisel rip chains at about a 45° hook angle and I don't have too much trouble with a rough cut OR engine bogging anymore. I assume you're milling with your 088, so I would think that should have enough power to pull a fairly aggressive hook on even a rather long bar. This is for softwoods of course, which I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed you work with a lot since you're in BC too. From what I've read, a blunter hook angle is more desirable for harder woods, but I don't have any experience milling such wood.

 

[BIG JAKE]

Actually you are right - meaning that both my proposed experiment and Jakes are somewhat worthless.

In that case there are two kinds of stretch or chain extension.

The permanent elongation of the chain when it is first used. Unless the chain is really badly treated, this is not due to wear as the chain hasn't done enough rpm to cause that much wear. This is really just the chain settling in and loosening up any tightish joints etc. It is also a measure of how well a chain is made.

The second is caused by the slow deformation of the circular shape of the pins and corresponding holes over the life of the chain - this is caused by a combination of over tightening or wrong tightening of chain, how dirty a chain gets and plain old wear. The only way to test this is to do a lifetime test.

A longterm test using the right method would be indicative, but I don't believe worth the effort. New chains usually stretch more and faster initially than at any other time. After that, it comes down to which chain has better tolerances in manuf process and the chain with the harder components & better metallurgy(alloys) will win, all other variables such as proper tension, loading, lubrication, etc, being equitable. So if you took two identical saw setups with different chains, you could throw out the initial first week of milling to eliminate the fast stretch period if one chain is not pre-stretched. You could test stretch rates simply by marking bar to the case. 2 saws would be nice for a test but one saw with two different color markers or scribe marks would work too. Alternating cuts on same logs throughout the test would be one fairly equitable way. At years end the chain with least amount of stretch wins. The end result would even then be somewhat subjective, as differences in manuf line tolerances at the chain factory or steel factories vary lot to lot. All it would tell you is the difference between those particular chains, but not definitive enough to say this brand is better. You'd need more longterm test data from different chain lots to discern a true quality winner. My current assumption is that there isn't enough quality difference between brands to hassle with a test, although if anyone asked me I'd tell them I think Stihl makes the highest quality chain. Just my opinion based solely on impressions from my own experience and nothing more.
What really matters is that a chain be serviceable throughout the lifetime of the cutterhead. Stretch equates to re-tensioning, which equates to time lost milling-granted. I don't think there's enough difference to write home about.

 

[wavefreak]

Chain geeks. LOL. (no insult intended - I qualify for multiple categories of geekdom)

Though I suppose calling someone with a chain saw a geek is a bit dangerous.

 

[BobL]

Chain geeks. LOL. (no insult intended - I qualify for multiple categories of geekdom)

Though I suppose calling someone with a chain saw a geek is a bit dangerous.

Chain geeks are at least one step above bar oil geeks. No. . . wait . . . . I think the bar oil geeks have it . . . . at least for now

 

[Matildasmate]

Carlton Chain

Save yourselves some hassle and buy the best chain in the world American made Carlton chain . Cheers MM

 

[MR4WD]

What are you cutting?

I have been using Oregon RD ripping chain on a 36" and 28" bars with almost no stretching. I figure the saw kerf is about 3/8".

Slabbed some ponderosa pine about 2.5"x33"x10' For a future table project.

Milled up some 8x8x11' fir, for a "post and beam" carport I plan on building this summer and turning it into a garage next.

Got "salvage" right to ~20 acres of DEAD ponderosa pine (drop over 200 trees for a friend), which I'll probably turn into batten siding for the lower part of the house, and eventually side the carport with. Basicly just working out what cutters I like now, and oregon isn't it.

It's amazing how long stihl stays sharp for and like mentioned, you'd think being full chisel it might leave a rougher cut. I might have to try and tune the oregon, but I'm certainly not happy with it.

Anybody interested in pics?

 

[DRB]

Maybe the folks who "pre-shrink" jeans can help us out on that one... I'm not sure how that works either.


The Stihl chain should cut faster if it's full-chisel as opposed to the semi Oregon. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if it does stay sharp better - I don't have any hard evidence to back this up, but from my experience with it, Stihl chain seems to have noticeably harder cutters. At least they seem harder to file.

DRB, is that full-chisel you're talking about? Because it will really bite in sideways and cut rough if it has an aggressive hook, though it's not as much of a problem with semi-chisel because of the lack of a sharp point on the cutter. I learned that one the hard way last summer. However I file my semi-chisel rip chains at about a 45° hook angle and I don't have too much trouble with a rough cut OR engine bogging anymore. I assume you're milling with your 088, so I would think that should have enough power to pull a fairly aggressive hook on even a rather long bar. This is for softwoods of course, which I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed you work with a lot since you're in BC too. From what I've read, a blunter hook angle is more desirable for harder woods, but I don't have any experience milling such wood.

It's a semi chisel chain. I mostly cut softwoods and some birch as well.

When I am cutting cedar for siding it seems that if the hook angle is steeper I get a smoother finish more like a bandsaw.

 

[DRB]

MR4WD

Stihl chain seems to be a popular choice I might have to try some.

Pictures are goodopcorn:opcorn:

Nice score one the ponderosa pine. Any extra?

I am looking at a 40"+ ponderosa pine for next weekend.

 

[MR4WD]

MR4WD

Stihl chain seems to be a popular choice I might have to try some.

Pictures are goodopcorn:opcorn:

Nice score one the ponderosa pine. Any extra?

I am looking at a 40"+ ponderosa pine for next weekend.

The pine is in between kamloops and barriere. I'm in the middle of moving from tappen to sunnybrae so to speak, so hopefully I can start bringing logs home late this summer.

Where can a guy get cedar to mill?

What part of the world are you in?

 

[DRB]

Cedar grows like a weed on my property 1/4" or more between growth rings in a good spot. Although I hate to cut them down

I live between SA and Enderby.