Pioneer chainsaws

[pioneerguy600]

And a couple more details.

44 hours labor and close to complete.
Pioneerguy600

 

[tallfarmboy]

I personally would not part it out as it is not hard to get a good one up and running if you can do the work yourself. The NOVA II module will run that saw if you really need it but most times just cleaning and setting the points will restore spark on the Pioneers. The point contacts must be clean and shiny to work correctly , set them at 0.022 and you should have spark if there is no other problems. Did you get any info from Lawrence? I read his post where he made an offer and just let it ride, I figured he would give you all the info he could on how to remove the flywheel and check all the ignition parts. If you need more info just ask and some of us will certainly help but not all of us are on every evening so some times it may seem like a long while before you get an answer.
Pioneerguy600

This is exactly the answer that I was looking for. Yes, Lawrence is going to be scanning and emailing me some service information. The coil on the armature has some cracks in it. Not the coil itself, but the covering on it... I hope that does not hurt it.

The students in my class are helping me to work on it. Does anyone have any pointers on removing/servicing the carburetor? Any kits available for it?

One other thing... the rear engine cover says "400" but the model number plate states the model as "410". any reasoning to that?? These numbers are on the same piece of metal... I will snap and share some pictures tomorrow.

Thank you all for your willingness to help,

TFB

 

[briantutt]

The clutch driver unscrews with left hand thread and a special tool was used by Pioneer, I made my own and use a battery impact driver to remove all the threaded clutches on all saws. You should remove the spark plug and insert some rope such as pull cord into the sparkplug hole to partially fill the cylinder, then the piston will come up and jam it stopping rotation. The piston should be half way up toward the top so that the rope does not get caught in the exhaust port before inserting any rope or cord, this really works on all chainsaws.
Pioneerguy600

Thank you Jerry, I will build a tool with dowel pins that line up with the curved slots in the clutch driver that I can put on an impact wrench. thank you

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thank you Jerry, I will build a tool with dowel pins that line up with the curved slots in the clutch driver that I can put on an impact wrench. thank you

That is what I did, welded two pieces of steel on the end of a 3/8" drive socket that fit in the slots of the clutch carrier. Works every time on the saws I have used it on.
Pioneerguy600

 

[propliner]

Ra

Wow Jerry, that RA is a thing of beauty, it looks absolutely immaculate. Nice work!

 

[WesternSaw]

Jerry Jerry Jerry!

I think I'm going to be sick with envy.You are indeed a perfectionist.That is one smart looking saw.I feel like that little train engine,I think I can,I think I can..........I only wish.I'm not brown nosing HaaaaaHaaaaaa LOL!
Lawrence

 

[pioneerguy600]

This is exactly the answer that I was looking for. Yes, Lawrence is going to be scanning and emailing me some service information. The coil on the armature has some cracks in it. Not the coil itself, but the covering on it... I hope that does not hurt it.

The students in my class are helping me to work on it. Does anyone have any pointers on removing/servicing the carburetor? Any kits available for it?

One other thing... the rear engine cover says "400" but the model number plate states the model as "410". any reasoning to that?? These numbers are on the same piece of metal... I will snap and share some pictures tomorrow.

Thank you all for your willingness to help,

TFB

To answer some of your questions , if the plate says 410 then it is most likely a newer version of the 400. The 400 was made in 1958-59 and used a Brown carb which there is no kits for, the 400A was also made in 1955 and uses a Tillotson -108A carb. The model 410 was made in 1960-61 and uses the Tillotson 108A carb and there is kits easily obtainable for these carbs, you can get them at any small engine repair shop. The Pioneer saws were being rapidly developed in this time slot and some parts were carried over into each newer model of saw hence you would see parts from an earlier model show up on the newer version as it would cost big money and take up considerable time to change the molds used to cast the parts just to change a number up from say 400-410 or like the 600 series they kept the top cover with 600 on it and used the cover on the model 600, 600A and 610. The usual changes dealt mostly with the carburetors, air filters and air intake adapters to give the engines better airflow and fuel delivery plus better air filtration. The carb should be an easy removal after taking off the air filter and the rear handle cover to expose the throttle linkage. The fuel primer and hoses are one of the worst problems with these old saws and they usually need replacing but the primer pump kits are rare although Propliner has them sometimes. Keep us informed how you are doing ant let us know what type of carb you have on your saw when you get it out.
Pioneerguy600

 

[pioneerguy600]

Wow Jerry, that RA is a thing of beauty, it looks absolutely immaculate. Nice work!

Thanks for the encouragement, I will try harder on the next one which may start soon. Always on the lookout for the chrome Pioneer logo for the top cover.
Pioneerguy600

 

[pioneerguy600]

I think I'm going to be sick with envy.You are indeed a perfectionist.That is one smart looking saw.I feel like that little train engine,I think I can,I think I can..........I only wish.I'm not brown nosing HaaaaaHaaaaaa LOL!
Lawrence

Thanks for the boost Lawrence, you can do it, just jump in and work away and you will get better with each project you complete.
Pioneerguy600

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Awww Jerry!!.....Someday my RA will look that good!....outstanding job!!!!!

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Jerry; The round emblem on the top cover....when was that made vs. mine, which has the Pioneer script?

 

[pioneerguy600]

Jerry; The round emblem on the top cover....when was that made vs. mine, which has the Pioneer script?

I have asked that question many times myself and have not been able to confirm it with written proof but the older dealers all seem to agree that the scripted cover came out first in 1957 and the emblem and logo cover came out in 1958. We had the scripted cover version on the farm from my Mothers side of the family when I was a young fella but they did not buy it new so I could not verify the date or sequence it was made around. I have that one also but have left it original, except for a little repaint I did when I was a teen, for mostly sentimental reasons. I will post a pict of it here.
Pioneerguy600

 

[WesternSaw]

Just found this out!

I have been corresponding with an old Pioneer dealer off and on for about the last year,.He is the fella that I got the 300+ pages of IEL-Pioneer IPL's. Also Service Bulletins and how to disassemble and reassemble some of these saws.He mentioned to me that at one time Pioneer was working on a one hand saw,something along the line of a cordless drill,only a saw I think that was gas fueled.Anybody know anything about this?Also will make a post in the general chainsaw section today concerning an other saw .Take a look if interested.
Lawrence

 

[tallfarmboy]

To answer some of your questions , if the plate says 410 then it is most likely a newer version of the 400. The 400 was made in 1958-59 and used a Brown carb which there is no kits for, the 400A was also made in 1955 and uses a Tillotson -108A carb. The model 410 was made in 1960-61 and uses the Tillotson 108A carb and there is kits easily obtainable for these carbs, you can get them at any small engine repair shop. The Pioneer saws were being rapidly developed in this time slot and some parts were carried over into each newer model of saw hence you would see parts from an earlier model show up on the newer version as it would cost big money and take up considerable time to change the molds used to cast the parts just to change a number up from say 400-410 or like the 600 series they kept the top cover with 600 on it and used the cover on the model 600, 600A and 610. The usual changes dealt mostly with the carburetors, air filters and air intake adapters to give the engines better airflow and fuel delivery plus better air filtration. The carb should be an easy removal after taking off the air filter and the rear handle cover to expose the throttle linkage. The fuel primer and hoses are one of the worst problems with these old saws and they usually need replacing but the primer pump kits are rare although Propliner has them sometimes. Keep us informed how you are doing ant let us know what type of carb you have on your saw when you get it out.
Pioneerguy600

Jerry,
I'm gonna guess that I have a 410 model saw. The carburetor adjustment screws are located on the side of the saw and NOT through the holes in the carburetor cover. I snapped a picture of the rear cover, the carburetor area, and the armature. I am gonna guess that I have a Tillotson carburetor, which is a blessing I guess. If I am unable to get this saw to spark, where will I be able to get a "NOVA II" solid state module?
Thanks,
TFB

 

[pioneerguy600]

Jerry,
I'm gonna guess that I have a 410 model saw. The carburetor adjustment screws are located on the side of the saw and NOT through the holes in the carburetor cover. I snapped a picture of the rear cover, the carburetor area, and the armature. I am gonna guess that I have a Tillotson carburetor, which is a blessing I guess. If I am unable to get this saw to spark, where will I be able to get a "NOVA II" solid state module?
Thanks,
TFB

If you have a small engine repair shop in your area they should be able to get you a module for around $ 15. plus taxes, if you can`t locate one near you let me know with a PM and I will give you specifics on where they can be located.
To get the carb out I forgot to state that the rear handle must also be taken off, not difficult after removing the top handle.
Pioneerguy600

 

[mcor]

And a couple more details.

44 hours labor and close to complete.
Pioneerguy600

Truly amazing Jerry! Thanks for posting these great photos. They will serve as inspiration on the long road to getting my RA cleaned up and back together.

 

[WesternSaw]

History Lesson Please. CLass,Class,Class

Okay I'll toss this one up in the air.It contains Pioneer and Power Machinery saws.I will post in the thread on the PM270 saw thread as well.I think we as a whole do not want this thread to be anything but PIONEER .Only putting it here for now so that you Gurus with the endless information might have some information on the, WHY OF THIS.As I am taking the PM270 apart something struck me.DUH!Wake up Lawrence.The parts to the 270 look like the IEL's.I remember reading something from here I think that mentioned the engineers from one company went to the other when one closed.Can you fellas set me straight
Thanks Lawrence

 

[pioneerguy600]

Truly amazing Jerry! Thanks for posting these great photos. They will serve as inspiration on the long road to getting my RA cleaned up and back together.

That is my hope also and has always been to see more of these old beauties cleaned up and kept running and some kept for posterity. I like to share my knowledge and methods of restoring these old saws and have quite an arsenal of picts stored up to help explain any problems that might arise while working with the IEL and Pioneer chainsaws.
Pioneerguy600

 

[WesternSaw]

Telling it like it is

Way to tell it straight Jerry

 

[briantutt]

That is what I did, welded two pieces of steel on the end of a 3/8" drive socket that fit in the slots of the clutch carrier. Works every time on the saws I have used it on.
Pioneerguy600

Do you have a picture of the tool? I was going to take a flat piece and have the model shop guys at work bore press fit holes for pins but maybe yours is a more simple solution that I can do at home.