Plasma Cutters

[user 122190]

It's going to be hard to top 6 pages of fire blanket type justification.

Then you read it all. Must have been painful for you. Here's something for you, an award -->

 

[Chucksta]

Wha'd ya git? (?? link ??)

I got it off Ebay, but it was too long ago to still have the link in my account. It was ( is ), a Simarc CT520DP. It also has the connection for a foot pedal, so that you can goose up the power when striking the Tig arc, or while running the tig arc.. The pedal wasn't included, but is readily available as a standard accessory. The accessories and consumables seem to only have a couple of different specs.. Just like oxy acceteline gear.

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_fro..._TitleDesc=0&_odkw=plasma+tig+combo&_osacat=0
Best I could do.. As you can see from that, the pilot arc isn't that common. Mine has a snap on two prong thingy on the nozzle, to keep the cutting head a bit away from the work. Line it up, put the tip protector over the starting line, and pull the trigger.. Away it goes. The "Simarc" line doesn't show up, but Vevor is a very similar product.
Truth be told, I think that they are all pretty much the same, just with different boxes..

 

[ATpro]

May I ask why air would work in his case?

It's will do what he needs, and he stated he didn't want to buy or rent tanks.
The only click in the works is how much air flow can his present air compressor's cfm's can put out. He can check the spec's for the Plasma Cutter he is buying and it will state the cfm's say at 90psi required to operate, normally for small Plasma Cutter like he is looking at that would be 3.5 scfm (99 l/min) and 6.7 scfm (189 l/min) at 90psi flow.

 

[Heavyopp]

Make sure to get consumables.
I don’t know much about the ebay/amazon cheapy machines but I have to wonder if the consumables are inferior and consumed much faster.

 

[Bill G]

True. But a quality budget cutter can cost a 1/10 of a higher end unit. For the DIY guy doing odd jobs in the garage, the budget cutter will last a long long time, and you can buy 10 of them before having regrets. This is true about most things. We want it to work, and we hope it works for a long long time. And if it doesn't then replace accordingly.

I spent a mere $200 on my used Century Arc Welder and it has already paid for itself, I enjoy using it, and I expect it will outlive me.

You are trying to compare a very simple SMAW unit to a very complex and evolving unit. There is zero comparison. You can easily stick weld with a 1955 Forney and get great results.

 

[Bill G]

I haven’t filled an acetylene tank in 10 years.

I have never filled one yet love the gas axe...............

 

[Sidecarflip]

I'm not even going to comment except to say that besides posting on here (and pizzing people off here and there), I own and operate a commercial fab and short run machine shop with 2 employees and I also own a industrial sized plasma table, 2 compressors, a Quincy 7.5 horse QP and a Sullaire screw compressor, a IR refrigerated dryer, 2 Bridgeports, one is a Vera-Track CNC mill, 3 engine lathes one is a LeBlond Servo shift, 2 surface grinders plus a Dake hydraulic Arbor press (we do quite a bit of broaching), a couple sensitive spindle geared head drill presses and a partridge in a pear tree too.

Additionally, I have machines and can run every accepted welding process and some that aren't as well.. I'm certified TIG FYI. Do a ton of TIG welding on steel and exotic alloys. Just came in for dinner, been working most of the day on a an aluminum job I cut the blanks on the plasma table and now I'm fitting them up. I do a bit of heavy fab on repairing excavator buckets as well (most of the welding in them is spray arc globuar transfer) but I do light stuff as well. I do all the welding and most of the heavy fab and my employees do the the parts machining.

None of that is germane except my experience with plasma cutters and I would never again buy a Hyper Therm. Not a bad machine (had a 75 amp computer driven and sold it recently, The Hyper Therm consumables are stupid expensive, especially the fine cut consumables and even though I run a refrigerated air dryer, I also run point of use Motorgard sub micron cannister filters in every machine (plasma cutters) that I own and I presently own 3, had 4 but the HT went away last month and so did my Lincoln Square Wave TIG / SMAW welder, Moisture in the supplied are will quickly destroy consumables (cheap or expensive) and will fock up the internal valving in ANY plasma cutter. The Motorgard's will remove 100% of any and all air line moisture and debris down to 5 microns and they all come with replaceable filters and they ain't expensive either. One of the plasma is dedicated to the plasma table and does nothing else, the other 2 are shop and general use cutters,

Not into naming brands suffice to say that no Lincoln's or Millers or ESAB's are in my shop and I will also say that one of my very good friends has used my TIG machine (today actually) and he manages a crew that does Nuclear refits and even he cannot believe how smooth and stable this new machine is. He's amazed and he's a Miller man, but he told me after stacking some dimes with my new machine, the Miller is going down the road and he's getting one as well. All my plasma cutters are the same brand my TIG is. Only odd one out are the 2 Hobart Gas MIGS I own that are 20 years old and run like swiss watches on 75-25 with 030 solid core wire.

You can guess what I own, should not be that hard. Been doing this stuff for over 35 years now and yes, we make money. How I got into chipper knife grinding, had open time on one of the grinders so I built a jig and started grinding chipper knives as a value added thing. Even have a 10 ton overhead crane in the east shop to load steel in the plasma cutter. Some of the steel is pretty dam heavy, aluminum not so much and only light gage stainless. Nothing over 0. 025 mostly in 300 series.

I do own a Lincoln Pipeliner ac-dc gas driven unit for the back of the pickup for field work, forgot about that. Use to do a lot of field fixing. Not so much anymore. I should sell it but it's probably not worth anything, anyway.

Still have my OA setup and still use it for heating and bending. I started out with OA and welded with coathangers and some of the stuff I stuck together is still trucking along but most if it has corroded away, Too bad they quit making metal wire coathangers, they made excellent gas welding rod. The plastic stuff don't work very well. Melts at too low a temperature and stinks too.

 

[Bill G]

I'm not even going to comment except to say that besides posting on here (and pizzing people off here and there), I own and operate a commercial fab and short run machine shop with 2 employees and I also own a industrial sized plasma table, 2 compressors, a Quincy 7.5 horse QP and a Sullaire screw compressor, a IR refrigerated dryer, 2 Bridgeports, one is a Vera-Track CNC mill, 3 engine lathes one is a LeBlond Servo shift, 2 surface grinders plus a Dake hydraulic Arbor press (we do quite a bit of broaching), a couple sensitive spindle geared head drill presses and a partridge in a pear tree too.

Additionally, I have machines and can run every accepted welding process and some that aren't as well.. I'm certified TIG FYI. Do a ton of TIG welding on steel and exotic alloys. Just came in for dinner, been working most of the day on a an aluminum job I cut the blanks on the plasma table and now I'm fitting them up. I do a bit of heavy fab on repairing excavator buckets as well (most of the welding in them is spray arc globuar transfer) but I do light stuff as well. I do all the welding and most of the heavy fab and my employees do the the parts machining.

None of that is germane except my experience with plasma cutters and I would never again buy a Hyper Therm. Not a bad machine (had a 75 amp computer driven and sold it recently, The Hyper Therm consumables are stupid expensive, especially the fine cut consumables and even though I run a refrigerated air dryer, I also run point of use Motorgard sub micron cannister filters in every machine (plasma cutters) that I own and I presently own 3, had 4 but the HT went away last month and so did my Lincoln Square Wave TIG / SMAW welder, Moisture in the supplied are will quickly destroy consumables (cheap or expensive) and will fock up the internal valving in ANY plasma cutter. The Motorgard's will remove 100% of any and all air line moisture and debris down to 5 microns and they all come with replaceable filters and they ain't expensive either. One of the plasma is dedicated to the plasma table and does nothing else, the other 2 are shop and general use cutters,

Not into naming brands suffice to say that no Lincoln's or Millers or ESAB's are in my shop and I will also say that one of my very good friends has used my TIG machine (today actually) and he manages a crew that does Nuclear refits and even he cannot believe how smooth and stable this new machine is. He's amazed and he's a Miller man, but he told me after stacking some dimes with my new machine, the Miller is going down the road and he's getting one as well. All my plasma cutters are the same brand my TIG is. Only odd one out are the 2 Hobart Gas MIGS I own that are 20 years old and run like swiss watches on 75-25 with 030 solid core wire.

You can guess what I own, should not be that hard. Been doing this stuff for over 35 years now and yes, we make money. How I got into chipper knife grinding, had open time on one of the grinders so I built a jig and started grinding chipper knives as a value added thing. Even have a 10 ton overhead crane in the east shop to load steel in the plasma cutter. Some of the steel is pretty dam heavy, aluminum not so much and only light gage stainless. Nothing over 0. 025 mostly in 300 series.

I do own a Lincoln Pipeliner ac-dc gas driven unit for the back of the pickup for field work, forgot about that. Use to do a lot of field fixing. Not so much anymore. I should sell it but it's probably not worth anything, anyway.

Still have my OA setup and still use it for heating and bending. I started out with OA and welded with coathangers and some of the stuff I stuck together is still trucking along but most if it has corroded away, Too bad they quit making metal wire coathangers, they made excellent gas welding rod. The plastic stuff don't work very well. Melts at too low a temperature and stinks too.

What is your opinion on cutting .500-.750 plate with a plasma? What size is needed to do it efficiently

 

[ATpro]

I haven’t filled an acetylene tank in 10 years.

I used propane for 90% of things like ruff cuts, heating and such. If I was a young man again and interested in production fabrication I would look into CNC Waterjet cutting, but you better be prepared to get up off your pocket book and you would need a market for your production to make it profitable.

 

[Bill G]

There is no doubt plasma machines have their place but in most home shops LP and O2 work well.

 

[Heavyopp]

@Sidecarflip - would love to know what someone with your background is running as a plasma and tig. I don’t want to guess

I do run a filter at point of use. It’s hooked to air inlet on the plasma, air line hook to it. I believe it’s the same you have, motorcraft? Heavy black aluminum housing, serious filter inside.

Would like to know what to look at if I ever kill my hypertherm. My welders are all miller.

 

[Sidecarflip]

I used propane for 90% of things like ruff cuts, heating and such. If I was a young man again and interested in production fabrication I would look into CNC Waterjet cutting, but you better be prepared to get up off your pocket book and you would need a market for your production to make it profitable.

I used to sub out all my cutting but I got into CNC plasma for the value added aspect and lead time were sometimes a PITA when the outfit I had do my cutting was busy. They had both CNC plasma and waterjet and I looked hard at an Amada waterjet table but like you said, better have a HUGE wallet and there are a ton of peripherals that come along with a water cutter. Just was not in the cards for me. When I buy any new machine or farm tractor or for that matter, any piece of equipment. I pay for it up front unless I can get 0 percent interest and today that is basically fantasy, especially when it comes to machinery.

A plasma table, on the other hand takes little in the way of peripherals. A compatible plasma cutter of sufficient amperage, dry compressed air at the proper pressure, mine run at between 110 and 120 psi, a compatible computer for the software (I use the Lenovo laptop I'm posting) on with sufficient memory space, this one has a 2TB SS hard drive in it, touch screen because the software today is all touchscreen compatible and this laptop has voice command non keyboard input but I don't use it and a large high resolution screen. The table I own will accept a machine torch or a hand torch and has voltage sensing torch height control and perimeter limit switches and I don't like piercing thick plate (hard to the torch and consumables) so I tend to drill the pierce hole with a drill motor prior to cutting. My table will also accept a pipe cutter (have that, never used it) and a wood router (don't own one, don't do wood carving). I can cut at 400 IPM but rarely do, I'm not in a big hurry and of course a water table underneath that gets munged up and is a PITA to clean. 100% of the driver software was included as well as Solidworks and a nice nesting program for multiple repetitive parts. I am not a computer junkie by any means and I found the software to be very easy to use. I can set it up and walk away and let it do it's thing, don't have to babysit it. Actually easier to program than the Versa-Trak is. The VT is conversational programming but it has to be watched constantly and you better have a working knowledge if G codes too. That took 3 times the time the plasma table took to get working properly.

One thing about the table I like and that is, I can be very selective about what I take on and I pass on a lot of jobs because I just don't want to get involved with them. I'm old and somewhat crotchety and according to my employees, sometimes hard to work for but I demand quality people that have the same quality attitude I do if they don't, well, they don't last here very long. I'm a ****** boss and I admit it.

 

[ATpro]

I'm not even going to comment except to say that besides posting on here (and pizzing people off here and there), I own and operate a commercial fab and short run machine shop

I'm afraid most of this would be way over the head of some here and really doesn't add any thing to the conversation to help MontanaResident make a decision on a new purchase.

When talking about MIG transfer modes I normally select the mode that fits the process best, Short circuit transfer for thin stuff, Globular transfer or a combination of Globular transfer and Spray, or spray for better production. Run a lot of 95/5 argon/O2 lays a flatter weld, wets out well, less splatter, and can create a higher tensile strength than you get with 75/25. Run .023/.025 in my Tweco 1, run .030/ .035 on my Tweco 2, and .045 on my Tweco 4.

 

[Sidecarflip]

@Sidecarflip - would love to know what someone with your background is running as a plasma and tig. I don’t want to guess

I do run a filter at point of use. It’s hooked to air inlet on the plasma, air line hook to it. I believe it’s the same you have, motorcraft? Heavy black aluminum housing, serious filter inside.

Would like to know what to look at if I ever kill my hypertherm. My welders are all miller ay I like Bauer cordless tools....lol

I use Motorgard Cannister (aluminum die cast) filters with screw on tops and I use their cartridge filters. They are excuse my English, Rats Ass for moisture and debris removal from the shop air. I get some transient moisture even with the refrigerated dryer and the screw compressor has a built in dryer it was a package deal. Still have to drain tanks infrequently and the Quincy has a Tsunami auto drain on it the purges any receiver water every time the unit cycles. It's nice and not that expensive either. About 100 bucks and well worth it. The screw don't and neither does my 150 gallon remote receiver. I'm all about stored air volume and compressor cycling. The big Quincy pulls big amps starting and running and that equates to a big electric bill and the driving reason why I went 100% inverter machines versus conventional transformer machines. Transformers used to be the advantage for smooth power delivery but not now. Modern solid state inverter machines are just as good if not better are light years more efficient than the old school stuff and weigh about 1/3 of what a transformer machine weighs plus they are smaller. My square wave Linc was a beast and big and the new one runs rings around the old Linc.

If I told you what machines I prefer to run, you'd laugh your butt off.... Lets just say I'm very fond of Bauer cordless tools.....

The screw runs constantly (like a big blower on a drag car) but it runs in oil all the time and the air is separated from the oil inside the compressor. When the pressure switch calls for air, it changes the internal valving and the blower compresses the air. It's pretty neat and very quiet too and it wasn't cheap either. 95% of what I have runs on 220-1 except the Leblond and it runs on 480-3. One surface grinder and the VT are 220-3.

Bet I own the only farmhouse with an industrial 3 phase 480 panel in the back room and a 300 amp split box for the shop. Our electrical provider almost crapped and had to hang a big can on the pole across the road as well. Had it all, wired by a certified electrician , not good with electric stuff and don't claim to be either. From the house to the shop, it's all buried and 4 cables plus a safety ground. Only give away is if you come down the drive and look at the side of the house, from the weatherhead down is large commercial conduit and lead in's and the lines from the weatherhead to the pole are thick as well. We also have a diesel 29 KW standby genset but it won't power everything. Power goes out, out here often and it is a Godsend.

The filters are rated for for 160 psi but I run my entire shop on 135 psi. The reason it, 135 psi with sufficient CFM will run any air tool including big impact wrenches (have them too) and the higher the air pressure is, the faster the reed valves in the compressor heads carbon up and the hotter they run so 135 max for me works just fine. Plasma's all have their own pressure regulators on them anyway.

If I had to do all this today at today's prices, I'd never do it. Way too costly. 25 years ago it cost a bundle even then but I had this vision... Too bad cancer got in my way.

Lets just say the last 7 years have been hell. I still do what I want to do, go hunting and farm but the cancer I have is inoperable so it's every other week chemo and good hospitalization and a fantastic oncologist. 7 years ago they gave me 6 months to live and I'm still here (minus some parts) but I'm here anyway. I probably won't live to see 75 and my wife will have one helluva auction sale. I have a handshake agreement with my good friend and tractor dealer that when I kiss off, he come and gets all the farm equipment and sells it all and keeps 10% and gives my wife the rest. The rest of it, who knows. I won't be worrying about it anyway Bet I have 200 grand plus in farm equipment alone. Maybe more. I don't keep track of that stuff as it's all paid for anyway. Worked my ass off to make sure everything was free and clear. Own 3 rentals outright too.. I have them in her name already and so is the farm and the land up north too. Told her to find some young buck and move where it's warm.... I did real good, made some excellent investments and had a guiding light ( my wife) the entire time. if it wasn't for her, I would not be here today and for that, I'm forever grateful. End of conversation on that score.

 

[Sidecarflip]

I'm afraid most of this would be way over the head of some here and really doesn't add any thing to the conversation to help MontanaResident make a decision on a new purchase.

It certainly does. I laid out in detail what to look at in a plasma machine and it don't matter where it's made either. Look at the consumable cost first and if they are readily available as well. Every plasma eats consumables, tips, electrodes, swirl rings and even the internal parts if the cutter is subjected to moisture. Chances are a cheap amazon cutter will eat consumables quickly. Fact of life... me, I prefer to have plasma cutters that I can buy locally (don't care if they came from China or not) and have consumables available locally and at a good price and have some sort of warranty too. Mine do, all of them have a 3 year, no questions asked replacement warranty. The machine fails, I get a new one, simple as that. try that with Amazon and report back...

Hopping up chainsaws are over my head as well but I still read all the comments. How you learn things and when you quit learning, you are dead.

 

[Sidecarflip]

There is no doubt plasma machines have their place but in most home shops LP and O2 work well.

Never used propane for anything but the RV. Always acetylene Was always under the understanding that propane was only used in scrap yards to cut up junk because it was cheap.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Globular transfer or a combination of Globular transfer and Spray, or spray for better production.

Never had a spatter issue with spray transfer, why I use it a lot. Very little if any post cleanup and it fills the beveled material quite nicely as well. My Hobart machines are marginal at best 220 amps but I can achieve it with the 'Pedal to Metal' so to speak.

Clamp if required, tack then root pass and hammer down after that and then flip and repeat if necessary.

I prefer to consolidate my shielding gasses like I do my motor oil and I don't rent / lease bottles either. I own all my bottles and have them filled only. I despise beat up rental bottles. I'm into shiny, Do the same with all my machines welders, cutters, machine tools vehicles, tractors implements... everything. How I roll.

 

[ATpro]

Never used propane for anything but the RV. Always acetylene Was always under the understanding that propane was only used in scrap yards to cut up junk because it was cheap.

LP is also more stable and for most cutting and heating works well. Tip last much longer and not susceptible to stoppage and you can go down to Walmart and by fuel.

 

[Sidecarflip]

What is your opinion on cutting .500-.750 plate with a plasma? What size is needed to do it efficiently

Clean or just sever and hand torch or machine torch? I presume hand torch.. You need at least a 60 amp machine to clean cut hot rolled plate and patience as well because your cut speed (IPM) will be slow and use a straight edge as a guide because cutting slowly with a hand torch invites wobbling. Cutting thick material requires practice just like TIG welding does. Whatever you buy, read the instructions in what angle to place the torch at and it needs to have a pilot arc as well. How the sparks are radiating from the torch determines the cut speed but I'd say 60 amps is plenty and it has to be a 220 machine, a 110 machine no matter what the output amp rating won't do it. If anything it will pop the breaker. I can clean cut 1" on my table with my 65 amp machine but the cut speed is slow. I know guys that run their cutters wide open all the time but all that does is eat consumables up. Sent you a PM btw...

 

[ATpro]

Never had a spatter issue with spray transfer, why I use it a lot. Very little if any post cleanup and it fills the beveled material quite nicely as well.

Yep, always try to bevel to the root and then weld especially on thick stuff. Care must be taken to control warp. That's the stick on MIG is penetration but I never found it a problem if the pieces to be welded were properly prepared.