Porting - Performance Measured?

[moody]

If the sound and feel of a ported & MM'd saw isn't worth a couple hundred dollars to you, maybe you should buy your wood!

I'm running a little slow today had an interesting morning. But as soon as we get power back I'll get everything posted on the 026 my friend.

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[chadihman]

Well none. For very good reason. It's not practical as these aren't race car's. These are being used to earn a pay check. The guys I deal with could give a **** less about the time spent on the dyno they want their saws done. They care about the end result not the in between.

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Yep all they care about is the end result. Its all the little things you do with a dyno that make the end result impressive. Well Randy's an honest guy and thus dyno is going to him in June. We'll see if its useful to him.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I think the dyno will become a very important tool for the porting guys. It will allow them to reliably test which improvements are worth the time invested, and which ones just sound good on paper. I also believe it will help to get the saws quieter. Knowing the precise result of each change will allow the tuners to deliver saws that are even better suited to the customers needs.
The dyno's real advantage isn't in advertising numbers, it is in having better data to improve knowledge.

 

[troylee]

I think a dyno would be a good tool. The builder can use it in many ways. Each mod can be tested, proven, disproved, then handed off to the real word to be evaluated. It could also be used as a diagnostic tool, for tuning, and when all else fails, can be used to see whose saw has the biggest johnson.

 

[Jacob J.]

Before

After
notice a difference?

The operator had different pants on in the after video?

 

[VA-Sawyer]

Chad posted while I was typing. We seem to be saying about the same thing.

 

[chadihman]

Chad posted while I was typing. We seem to be saying about the same thing.

I'm slow at typing and am very surprised at how many post's get in there before mine. Lol

 

[moody]

Yep all they care about is the end result. Its all the little things you do with a dyno that make the end result impressive. Well Randy's an honest guy and thus dyno is going to him in June. We'll see if its useful to him.

Good for him. I hope that the time you put into it pays off. I'm not trying to be rude or throw sand at your work. But IMO a dyno isn't practical and would be more of something to add more time to a build I don't feel is needed. The end result impresses them when they work with it. Your dyno can't simulate the drag of certain things grain or chain cause. It can give load numbers but have you ever tested the load of someone pushing a saw in the cut? What about the load of the saw pulling itself through a log? In order for a dyno to be useful to me you'd need that information. If you want a real world dyno set it up to pull numbers in the cut. That's where the money is for these guys. They judge power by feel not stats sheets. They don't run tachs on saws for a reason.

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[chadihman]

Good for him. I hope that the time you put into it pays off. I'm not trying to be rude or throw sand at your work. But IMO a dyno isn't practical and would be more of something to add more time to a build I don't feel is needed. The end result impresses them when they work with it. Your dyno can't simulate the drag of certain things grain or chain cause. It can give load numbers but have you ever tested the load of someone pushing a saw in the cut? What about the load of the saw pulling itself through a log? In order for a dyno to be useful to me you'd need that information. If you want a real world dyno set it up to pull numbers in the cut. That's where the money is for these guys. They judge power by feel not stats sheets. They don't run tachs on saws for a reason.

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I surely don't want to make any enemy's and your cool with me Moody. I can get #s at any rpm HP and torque. In the cut most saws run between 8000 and 10'000 rpms. Now tell me how my dyno is useless. I can give you torque and HP at ant rpm. I can hold the saw at any steady rpm. Now how real is that? I can fine tune a saw under load. I can hold a saw steady at 9000 rpms under load till it runs out of fuel. Try holding a saw at 9000 rpms in wood for a fuel test.

 

[rmh3481]

Chad,
Mastermind having one of your dyno's, will put his work which is already excellent+, to the next level. There will be no doubt about what works and what doesnt.

The saw porting picture began with guys needing larger saw performance in a lighter easier to carry package.

 

[moody]

I surely don't want to make any enemy's and your cool with me Moody. I can get #s at any rpm HP and torque. In the cut most saws run between 8000 and 10'000 rpms. Now tell me how my dyno is useless. I can give you torque and HP at ant rpm. I can hold the saw at any steady rpm. Now how real is that? I can fine tune a saw under load. I can hold a saw steady at 9000 rpms under load till it runs out of fuel. Try holding a saw at 9000 rpms in wood for a fuel test.

But do you know the load that the average user applies? Can you simulate knots in the wood ? Can you simulate the drag of the out the box chain?

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[moody]

I surely don't want to make any enemy's and your cool with me Moody. I can get #s at any rpm HP and torque. In the cut most saws run between 8000 and 10'000 rpms. Now tell me how my dyno is useless. I can give you torque and HP at ant rpm. I can hold the saw at any steady rpm. Now how real is that? I can fine tune a saw under load. I can hold a saw steady at 9000 rpms under load till it runs out of fuel. Try holding a saw at 9000 rpms in wood for a fuel test.

Sorry I missed something. Tell me one person who runs a saw at 9000rpms until he's out of fuel? Cool information for us to stammer over but rather useless to Joe Logger

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[chadihman]

But do you know the load that the average user applies? Can you simulate knots in the wood ? Can you simulate the drag of the out the box chain?

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It doesn't matter dude. All the things you said are your variables. I know where all my saws run in rpm in the cut. I have tach's mounted in my saws and watch the rpms in the cut. Yes I can simulate drag of the chain. What part of any load or any rpm I can test don't you understand?

 

[moody]

It doesn't matter dude. All the things you said are your variables. I know where all my saws run in rpm in the cut. I have tach's mounted in my saws and watch the rpms in the cut. Yes I can simulate drag of the chain. What part of any load or any rpm I can test don't you understand?

Ok what's the average drag of your chain in ft lbs?

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[HuskStihl]

If chainsaw dyno's were easily available, every builder would have one. If you controlled or adjusted for temp and humidity, you could get a good idea of what every change you made to a saw. That information would lead to a better product. Also better tailoring to the customers wishes. If I wanted my 394 to make max torque at 9400 rpm for stumping, or if I wanted my 288 to make max HP at 12,600 for humiliating peeps at GTG's it'd be cool to have that dialed in. I'm a car guy, have never seen a performance shop without a dyno. When the shop says "this mod will give you an 11.2 quarter mile", I basically discount that cause I know they're running slicks, and probably race gas, and the guy driving is better than me. If they say these three mods will take you from 485 to 600 at the wheels, and I'm there to see the dyno runs, that is information I'd rather have.

Mr. Moody is right about loggers, they want something that is strong and reliable. I'd bet the majority of pro fallers run mostly stock (muffler mod, maybe widening ports) saws

 

[VA-Sawyer]

It will be fun to revisit this thread in a few years. All the reputable modders will be using dynos by then.

 

[chadihman]

I'm done...........out to dinner with my wife. My phones all greasy from explaining how the dyno works while I was assembling my 4.3 l engine out of my blazer. Peace out friends.

 

[Stormy]

Chadiham,

You said on the first page you put your porteds to wood first, then on the dyno. What are you looking for in your dyno numbers, and from whence are these derived? Do you finish your work based on the wood or the dyno? Guess I'm just confused, first as to why you'd begin in the wood at all, then as to how you know your dyno readings are where you want them. And do you take pre-port stock dyno readings for a baseline?

As for the only real question I posted here, I guess there's no evidence to show that porting benefits the saw health-/longevity-wise?

Guess I'm also wondering whether the dynamics of a single piston two-stroke are sufficient to warrant a dyno that seems better suited to more sophisticated engines.

 

[CR888]

Well none. For very good reason. It's not practical as these aren't race car's. These are being used to earn a pay check. The guys I deal with could give a **** less about the time spent on the dyno they want their saws done. They care about the end result not the in between.

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Moody l don't think anyone is suggesting that a properly tuned/modified saw won't increase performance. Now, l could be wrong but l'd guess 95% of saws ported by builders are not used to earn a pay check but for people with CAD. l'll say this and l know you can mod a saw many ways for many applications but a member here MCW had brad built him a 660, this saw was an absolute weapon as he described it. Now this guy has felled more trees than all of us had hot breakfasts combined. He sold the saw as his production fell dramatically because of fuel consumption alone. Did he like the saw you betcha, was the saw well modified, absolutely but could he earn more money using it? Absolutely not...he was spending more time refueling the darn thing than felling trees.

 

[moody]

Moody l don't think anyone is suggesting that a properly tuned/modified saw won't increase performance. Now, l could be wrong but l'd guess 95% of saws ported by builders are not used to earn a pay check but for people with CAD. l'll say this and l know you can mod a saw many ways for many applications but a member here MCW had brad built him a 660, this saw was an absolute weapon as he described it. Now this guy has felled more trees than all of us had hot breakfasts combined. He sold the saw as his production fell dramatically because of fuel consumption alone. Did he like the saw you betcha, was the saw well modified, absolutely but could he earn more money using it? Absolutely not...he was spending more time refueling the darn thing than felling trees.

I do more business with local loggers than I do with folks here. And fuel mileage is something that I take into account when I port saws. Most guys around here that run Stihl's are switching to the 461. The fuel mileage doesn't have to suffer as badly as you described above. To give you an example. I ran a 66 done by treemonkey at his place and can tell you that I got more done on 1 tank of fuel with that saw than I could have on two on a stock one. If my saws dropped their production because of fuel mileage I wouldn't have 385xps x4 on my bench. Can I get another 10? Im sure I can, but it's not worth losing 15% more fuel.

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