Price per cord...3/3 cord vs. 4/4 cord

[Dozer Man]

You all have valid points.

A Cord = 128 cu. ft. of tightly stacked firewood. Whether it measure 4'x4'x8', or 4'x16'x2', or even 4'x32'x1'... It does't matter how you stack it, or cut it, a cord equals 128 cu. ft. of cut, split and stacked firewood. Most will agree on this.

In my area, I've grown up with what we called a "rick" of wood. To me, a "rick" measured 4' x 8' x 16". A full cord would then be 3 "ricks". Now using terminology in the FRACTIONS OF A CORD... my "rick" is universaly known as a "1/3 cord". Until I joined this forum, I'd never heard of a "face cord". Imho, a "face cord" can be cut at different lengths, therefore it is a variable way of measuring a quantity of firewood. Not a good way to use for pricing imho. (I need constants not variables)

Not everyone knows what a "rick" of firewood is...Just as not everone knows what a "face cord" is. My point being that we've all grown up using different terms describing quantities of firewood. None are wrong...but some are different than others.

Most everone knows and agrees what a "cord" of firewood is...128 cu. ft. of stacked firewood. Not surprisingly, this term is very widely used.

Imho, using fractions of a cord (1/8,1/4, 1/3, 1/2...etc.) is a good way to differentiate between quantities of firewood. Therefore I also believe that pricing should always be based on the quantity of firewood being sold. The more you want to buy, the cheaper it should be. BUT... using that same analogy also makes for higher prices for lesser quantities.

12" vs. 16"...After reading all the replies, now I'm having to rethink things. There are some valid points being made. I'll have to process a couple of ricks, one at 12" and the other at 16", and time the cut, split and stack times of both. I'm pretty sure that the 12" splits will be quicker, but I don't think by enough to counter 4/4cord vs. 3/3cord price per cord issue. Especially when you account for saw time. I see it as 33% more sawing=labor,gas,oil,chain life,chain sharpening,bar life,...etc., all these things together will be hard to recoup with just saving a little time in the splitting process. Just my thoughts anyways.

However, I should point out that I burn wood in a big, old fisher stove. It will burn 18"+ splits, and thats burning with splits stacked in the stove front to back. It will handle 20"+ if you stack wood in it from side to side (which I rarely do). My point is that I like the 16" splits for myself, that's why I've always cut to that length. Other than the OWB guys, though, I think I am becoming a minority compared to lengths of firewood these new stoves will burn. Just sharing my dilemma.

Again, thanks for your replies. They are all greatly appreciated. Please keep them coming.

 

[turnkey4099]

You all have valid points.

A Cord = 128 cu. ft. of tightly stacked firewood. Whether it measure 4'x4'x8', or 4'x16'x2', or even 4'x32'x1'... It does't matter how you stack it, or cut it, a cord equals 128 cu. ft. of cut, split and stacked firewood. Most will agree on this.

In my area, I've grown up with what we called a "rick" of wood. To me, a "rick" measured 4' x 8' x 16". A full cord would then be 3 "ricks". Now using terminology in the FRACTIONS OF A CORD... my "rick" is universaly known as a "1/3 cord".

<snip>

Minor quibble. your "rick" as a regional use is common. It is probably not legal tho, certainly not if firewood is covered in the weights and measures regs. Actual meaning of 'rick' for firewood is any stack no matter how long or high with a width of one 'stick'. Thus a pile of 3 pieces or a pile a mile long one stick wide are both 'ricks'.

Lots of regional terms for an amount of wood but only "cord" meets legal definition where laws apply.

Harry K

 

[J.W Younger]

Like dozer said people cut different lenths for their own reasons.If it was to sell , I'd cut at 18 because thats what the most people want around here. At one time I cut at 23 because the homemade splitter I had would only take up to 24 and a large round cut at 24 ani't gonna fit if its not cut perfectly straight. Any lenght can be converted to fractions of cords by measureing in inches and devided by 221k and this can be usefull when recipts are required.

 

[haveawoody]

I think the meat of the question is why cut to 12" vs 16".
For me I'm close to the city with lots of new small wood stoves going in, most will just fit 14" wood.
I sell most of my wood in 4'x4'x4' 1/2 cord lots, 12" pieces straight stacked in 4 rows on a 3 skid holder that allows me to fork lift.

I think close to the city your best to cut at 12" since your market growth will be that size.
Keep the oversize pieces in a pile for people that like longer than 12" wood.
In the country cut at 16", it doesn't hurt to just pile the things that were smaller while splitting into a separate pile for the occasional customer with a small wood stove.

 

[Dozer Man]

Harry K,

Minor quibble. your "rick" as a regional use is common. It is probably not legal tho, certainly not if firewood is covered in the weights and measures regs. Actual meaning of 'rick' for firewood is any stack no matter how long or high with a width of one 'stick'. Thus a pile of 3 pieces or a pile a mile long one stick wide are both 'ricks'.

Lots of regional terms for an amount of wood but only "cord" meets legal definition where laws apply.

Harry K

I apologize if I gave any impression that "rick" is a proper term to use. I, personally am trying to get completely away from the term "rick". What I called a rick in the past is now, in my own terms too, a "1/3 cord". You are absolutely correct that the term "rick" has no use as defining a sellable amount of firewood.

I absolutely agree that "cord", and fractions thereof, should be the only way to describe quantities of firewood. Especially if selling firewood. I was only using the word "rick" as a reference to ALL the different regional descriptions.

 

[Dozer Man]

I think the meat of the question is why cut to 12" vs 16".
For me I'm close to the city with lots of new small wood stoves going in, most will just fit 14" wood.
I sell most of my wood in 4'x4'x4' 1/2 cord lots, 12" pieces straight stacked in 4 rows on a 3 skid holder that allows me to fork lift.

I think close to the city your best to cut at 12" since your market growth will be that size.
Keep the oversize pieces in a pile for people that like longer than 12" wood.
In the country cut at 16", it doesn't hurt to just pile the things that were smaller while splitting into a separate pile for the occasional customer with a small wood stove.

Woody,

I have to agree with you. As I am getting more requests for wood in the 12"-14" range, I believe it's best to have quantities in both 12" and 16", for me anyways. Fyi...Thanks, I'm now looking for 4'x4' skids/pallets...great idea. Problem for me is most of the free pallets around my area are in the 48"x 40" range. I'm gonna look through CL right now!!

Thanks again to all !!!

 

[acf11]

Not woth your time

You should just stick to 16" pieces and never let a customer dictate terms to you, you will be more efficient and profitable! Let go of the custum lengths of wood
Don

 

[haveawoody]

Dozer Man,

Your welcome.
I still do 1/3 and 2/3 cord with 16" myself so it never hurts to cover all the bases.
I think you are 100% correct in the both is the way to go.

I get most of my 4x4 skids from stone places and lucky to have 2 of them just a short drive away.
They are nice tough thick oak beasts and the bulk of them are 4x4.
Most of the time the owners are oh to happy to see them depart the lot because when they accumulate they have to remove them at cost or spend hours loading them to the quarry truck.
I hear you on the odd size skids seems like every size you can imagine exists in a skid size.
In a pinch the old skill saw can recreate a skid pretty fast, materials to enlarge a skid are very affordable from the ones that got broken


acf11,

Not easy to turn away 50% of your customers that can't fit 16" wood into the stove.
It's a growing market now, i bet in just a few years 12" will be the standard size and 16" is the rare cut.

 

[turnkey4099]

I apologize if I gave any impression that "rick" is a proper term to use. I, personally am trying to get completely away from the term "rick". What I called a rick in the past is now, in my own terms too, a "1/3 cord". You are absolutely correct that the term "rick" has no use as defining a sellable amount of firewood.

I absolutely agree that "cord", and fractions thereof, should be the only way to describe quantities of firewood. Especially if selling firewood. I was only using the word "rick" as a reference to ALL the different regional descriptions.

No, you didn't give a wrong impression. I tried to word myi reply so there was no doubt that you were correct. I was just quibbling over the one point were you (very weakly) implied that a 'rick' did have a standard measure.

Begin rant:
I do wish that the people who are so enamored of face cord, bush cord, etc. would restrict their use to their local area. This a world wide, fairly professional site and standard measure should be used when discussing the ammount of wood in any context.

End rant:

Harry K

 

[Dozer Man]

No, you didn't give a wrong impression. I tried to word myi reply so there was no doubt that you were correct. I was just quibbling over the one point were you (very weakly) implied that a 'rick' did have a standard measure.

Begin rant:
I do wish that the people who are so enamored of face cord, bush cord, etc. would restrict their use to their local area. This a world wide, fairly professional site and standard measure should be used when discussing the ammount of wood in any context.

End rant:

Harry K,

I now understand and agree with your rant.

Thanks

 

[rwbinbc]

? would rather drill thier own teeth than sell firewood?,

I place the wood by the road in a "face cord" rack and it sells it self, plus another almost 90 "true cords"

wood is wood, this stack that stack, this load that load.

 

[turnkey4099]

? would rather drill thier own teeth than sell firewood?,

I place the wood by the road in a "face cord" rack and it sells it self, plus another almost 90 "true cords"

wood is wood, this stack that stack, this load that load.

Yep, but if you want to make yourself understood when discussing commodities, use the industry standards in these type forums. Cuts out a lot of misunderstanding and outright BS.

Harry K

 

[rwbinbc]

Wood is Wood

Hello All,

This is My way, Someone stops by and wants a Facecord, They get a Facecord. If they want a Rick, They get a Rick. If they want a pile, Then that pile is relocated. If they want to call it a whatever, Then they get a whatever of wood. I've sold tons of wood and people act as there is a gray area with wood measurement. If I set wood in a pile and call it a crack of wood, Then someone buys it, They just bought My crack of wood. This crap is stupid. Go to florida and ask for a pop, Then ask for a soda..................


All My wood will be sold as Facericks, no cords here.......................

Facericks will be cut 14" to 18" and stacked 4' tall by 8' long = a facerick

Three of these facericks will = a Rickerdic

No More Cords in Michigan, Only facericks and Rickerdics

 

[Dozer Man]

Alrighty Then...

Sell them whatever they want to call it ? Sounds good to me !! Price???...still a question.

I believe the point of this thread has been missed by some. It, for the most part, has to do with customers requesting "Custom Cut" firewood. Some want 12", some want 14", some 16", and so on.

If you don't custom cut...then so be it.

 

[rwbinbc]

Yes

Custom orders are more money, Boiler wood = cheapest in chunks, normally split = normal pricing, custom orders = higher pricing. I have some people that want small split pieces, I tend to get better price and tips with these folks. Never had anyone ask for wood under 14" in lenght yet, I know thier out there.

More time should mean more money, There are times when nice folks call. I've done freebee's for some nice old folks.

I get most of My wood free or really cheap, So Me helping out people now and then only makes Me a better person, I hope?

 

[tbow388]

My Stacks

This is my first year selling wood. I know what a cord is although I don't think many people buying wood do. Most just think that it is 4' tall x 16' long

I decided to do it this way since I pretty much cut wood for the fun of it and split it all by hand.

I sell a 3' x 3' stack of wood somewhere between 12" and 18". Different stacks, different lengths - their choice. I sell it for $20.00 per stack. When people ask how much of a cord it is I tell them a 3' x 3' section of one.

I have had 1 person insist on knowing how much of a cord it was and I told him 1/7th (a face value). He looked puzzled for a minute and then took his wood and left.

I have had one person think for a second and tell me it wasn't worth it. I gave him directions to another stack of wood.

I really think the only people that it really matters to is you guys who cut it and the person that just wants to be a stickler.

It takes me the same amount of time to process it any length I cut it. I consider it my time, my wood, my price and I have sold 2.5 cords (4' tall x 16' long face value).

 

[redheadwoodshed]

This is my first year selling wood. I know what a cord is although I don't think many people buying wood do. Most just think that it is 4' tall x 16' long

I decided to do it this way since I pretty much cut wood for the fun of it and split it all by hand.

I sell a 3' x 3' stack of wood somewhere between 12" and 18". Different stacks, different lengths - their choice. I sell it for $20.00 per stack. When people ask how much of a cord it is I tell them a 3' x 3' section of one.

I have had 1 person insist on knowing how much of a cord it was and I told him 1/7th (a face value). He looked puzzled for a minute and then took his wood and left.

I have had one person think for a second and tell me it wasn't worth it. I gave him directions to another stack of wood.

I really think the only people that it really matters to is you guys who cut it and the person that just wants to be a stickler.

It takes me the same amount of time to process it any length I cut it. I consider it my time, my wood, my price and I have sold 2.5 cords (4' tall x 16' long face value).

I agree with the concept of it's your wood and your price and if you and the buyer agree it doesn't matter what it's called.But, a 4'x16' stack is only a cord if the pieces are 2' long.If the pieces were 16" it would take a stack 4'x24'.You got to do the math were it comes out to 128cuft. to make a cord.Or at least close as you can get.

 

[redheadwoodshed]

No, you didn't give a wrong impression. I tried to word myi reply so there was no doubt that you were correct. I was just quibbling over the one point were you (very weakly) implied that a 'rick' did have a standard measure.

Begin rant:
I do wish that the people who are so enamored of face cord, bush cord, etc. would restrict their use to their local area. This a world wide, fairly professional site and standard measure should be used when discussing the ammount of wood in any context.

End rant:

Harry K

I have to say I agree with you,Harry.I have used the word rick myself when talking to my customers, when they ask about price I say something along the lines of 60$ for a 1/3 cord rick, or $150 a cord.The oldtimers around here know what ricks and cords are, some of the younger generation don't even understand when you break it down into how many feet by how many feet.
But for this site, I agree, that sticking to the term cord or a division of a cord, is a good idea.Cuts down on confusion.Well, maybe.

 

[Philbert]

I really think the only people that it really matters to is you guys who cut it and the person that just wants to be a stickler.

No.

If you bought gas at one station listed as $3.50 a gallon, and only got a cup (8 ounces) or a quart (32 ounces) for that amount instead of 128 ounces I doubt that you would find it fair. That's what we run into with sleazy or misinformed firewood sellers, who advertise a price per 'cord', but have very creative definitions of that unit.

So if you point to a pile of wood and say, 'I want $X for that'; no problem. But if you base your price on a standard unit of measure, it is not fair to use your own definitions.

Philbert

 

[blackdogon57]

This is my first year selling wood. I know what a cord is although I don't think many people buying wood do. Most just think that it is 4' tall x 16' long

I decided to do it this way since I pretty much cut wood for the fun of it and split it all by hand.

I sell a 3' x 3' stack of wood somewhere between 12" and 18". Different stacks, different lengths - their choice. I sell it for $20.00 per stack. When people ask how much of a cord it is I tell them a 3' x 3' section of one.

I have had 1 person insist on knowing how much of a cord it was and I told him 1/7th (a face value). He looked puzzled for a minute and then took his wood and left.

I have had one person think for a second and tell me it wasn't worth it. I gave him directions to another stack of wood.

I really think the only people that it really matters to is you guys who cut it and the person that just wants to be a stickler.

It takes me the same amount of time to process it any length I cut it. I consider it my time, my wood, my price and I have sold 2.5 cords (4' tall x 16' long face value).

Based on this post it seems to me that you have no clue what a cord of wood is