Quantify a "cord"?

[redprospector]

Ok, You got me there, I should say I can not fit a cord on a pickup without racks cause I can not stack that good. And I dont have good knot tying skills.

Believe me, it's not that I'm against rack's. They are a PITA when you have to pull a gooseneck trailer regularly. I do have a dedicated truck with racks now.

Andy

 

[spacemule]

Cords are the only legal unit to sell firewood by,

I've often heard this, so I thought I would look up what the actual statutes say. From a quick preliminary search, I see no case law regarding the sale of firewood. There are only three states with firewood statutes, and they specifically say you can't use the term "cord" when advertising firewood.

The vast majority of states seem to have no legal requirements for firewood measurement.

Here's Massachusett's statute.

Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet in length. The term "firewood" shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet and more than eight inches. Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms "cord", "face cord", "pile", "truckload" or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood. The term "kindling wood" shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings or other waste wood averaging eight inches in length. Except as provided by sections two hundred and forty-three and two hundred and forty-seven, the standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches.

Here's Rhode Island's.

(a) Cordwood sold or offered or exposed for sale shall be four feet (4') in length. The term "firewood" shall be construed to mean and include wood cut to any lengths of less than four feet (4') and more than eight inches (8"). Cordwood and firewood shall be advertised, offered for sale, and sold only in terms of cubic feet or cubic meters which will be construed as indicating the closely stacked cubic foot or cubic meter content to be delivered to the purchaser. The terms "cord", "face cord", "pile", "truckload", or terms of similar import shall not be used in the advertising and sale of cordwood or firewood.


(b) The term "kindling wood" shall be construed to mean and include all split wood, edgings, clippings, or other waste wood averaging eight inches (8") in length. The standard unit of measure for kindling wood shall be the bushel of two thousand, one hundred and fifty and forty-two hundredths cubic inches (2150.42 cu. in.).

Here's Virginia's.

It shall be unlawful to use the word "cord" or any abbreviation thereof other than to mean the standard as defined in § 3.1-919 in, or in connection with the purchase or sale of pulpwood, firewood, tanbark, or any forest product customarily measured in cords of any size whatever, or in connection with any quotation of price, or measurement of, or settlement, or payment for any such wood, bark or product, in reference to any cord, unit or measurement.

 

[windthrown]

Look a little harder there...

Space, you get an F, as your statement is not correct regarding state laws and firewood sales. In Oregon firewood sales are governed by statutes in the Oregon Department of Agriculture's Measurement Standards Division, which are called out by the state legal code (making them law in this state):

Specifically:

2.4. fireplace and stove wood
For the purpose of this regulation, this section shall apply to the sale of all wood, natural and processed, for use as fuel.

2.4.1. definitions

2.4.1.1.fireplace and stove wood
Any kindling, logs, boards, timbers, or other wood, natural or processed, split or not split, advertised, offered for sale, or sold for use as fuel.

2.4.1.2. cord
The amount of wood that is contained in a space of 128 cubic feet, when the wood is ranked and well stowed. For the purpose of this regulation,"ranked and well stowed" shall be construed to mean that pieces of wood are placed in a line or row, with individual pieces touching and parallel to each other, and stacked in a compact manner.

2.4.1.3. representation
A "representation" shall be construed to mean any advertisement, offering, invoice, or the like that pertains to the sale of fireplace or stove wood.

2.4.1.4. flavoring chips
Any kindling, log, boards, timbers, or other natural or processed, split or unsplit wood that is advertised, offered for sale, or sold for flavoring smoked or Barbequed foods.

2.4.2. identity
A representation may include a declaration of identity that indicates the species group (Example: 50% hickory, 50% miscellaneous softwood). Such a representation shall indicate, within 10 percent accuracy, the percentages of each group.

2.4.3. quantity
Fireplace and stovewood shall be advertised, offered for sale, and sold only by measure, using the term "cord" and fractional parts of a cord, or the cubic meter; except that:
(a) packaged natural wood
Natural wood offered for sale in packaged form in quantities less than 0.45 cubic meters (1/8 cord or 16 cubic feet) shall display the quantity in terms of cubic meters, to include decimal fractions of cubic meters; or cubic feet, to include fractions of cubic feet.
(b) artificial compressed or processed logs
A single fireplace log shall be sold by weight, and packages of such individual logs shall be sold by weight plus count.
(c) stove wood pellets or chips
Pellets or chips greater than 15cm (6 inches) in any dimension shall be sold by weight. This requirement does not apply to flavoring chips.
(d) flavoring chips
Flavoring chips shall be sold by volume.

2.4.4. prohibition of terms
The terms "face cord", "rack", "pile", "truckload", or terms of similar import shall not be used when advertising, offering for sale, or selling wood for use as fuel.

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

 

[spacemule]

Space, you get an F, as your statement is not correct regarding state laws and firewood sales. In Oregon firewood sales are governed by statutes in the Oregon Department of Agriculture's Measurement Standards Division, which are called out by the state legal code (making them law in this state):

Specifically:

2.4. fireplace and stove wood
For the purpose of this regulation, this section shall apply to the sale of all wood, natural and processed, for use as fuel.

2.4.1. definitions

2.4.1.1.fireplace and stove wood
Any kindling, logs, boards, timbers, or other wood, natural or processed, split or not split, advertised, offered for sale, or sold for use as fuel.

2.4.1.2. cord
The amount of wood that is contained in a space of 128 cubic feet, when the wood is ranked and well stowed. For the purpose of this regulation,"ranked and well stowed" shall be construed to mean that pieces of wood are placed in a line or row, with individual pieces touching and parallel to each other, and stacked in a compact manner.

2.4.1.3. representation
A "representation" shall be construed to mean any advertisement, offering, invoice, or the like that pertains to the sale of fireplace or stove wood.

2.4.1.4. flavoring chips
Any kindling, log, boards, timbers, or other natural or processed, split or unsplit wood that is advertised, offered for sale, or sold for flavoring smoked or Barbequed foods.

2.4.2. identity
A representation may include a declaration of identity that indicates the species group (Example: 50% hickory, 50% miscellaneous softwood). Such a representation shall indicate, within 10 percent accuracy, the percentages of each group.

2.4.3. quantity
Fireplace and stovewood shall be advertised, offered for sale, and sold only by measure, using the term "cord" and fractional parts of a cord, or the cubic meter; except that:
(a) packaged natural wood
Natural wood offered for sale in packaged form in quantities less than 0.45 cubic meters (1/8 cord or 16 cubic feet) shall display the quantity in terms of cubic meters, to include decimal fractions of cubic meters; or cubic feet, to include fractions of cubic feet.
(b) artificial compressed or processed logs
A single fireplace log shall be sold by weight, and packages of such individual logs shall be sold by weight plus count.
(c) stove wood pellets or chips
Pellets or chips greater than 15cm (6 inches) in any dimension shall be sold by weight. This requirement does not apply to flavoring chips.
(d) flavoring chips
Flavoring chips shall be sold by volume.

2.4.4. prohibition of terms
The terms "face cord", "rack", "pile", "truckload", or terms of similar import shall not be used when advertising, offering for sale, or selling wood for use as fuel.

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

Believe it or not, I just now came back to post this. My first search was only about 5 minutes, and was not intended to be exhaustive. Suffice it to say that wood sales, in the states that regulate them, are done on a state by state basis.

 

[windthrown]

California also has a firewood sales section in the penal code. It is basically the same as Oregon's. Sales of firewood only by the cord, no ricks, racks, face cords, etc. Yes, firewood is not covered in the US Constitution, so it is left up to the states to govern. Similar states that have laws requiring sales of firewood by the cord (quick online search):

Oregon, California, Washington, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Florida, Nebraska, Missouri, Connecticut, and Georgia.

Also you are incorrect in your statement about VA. VA law specifies that all firewood be sold in cord units, or cubic meters. Section 15.2 of VDACS Regulation 115-04-04 specifies that wood for use as fuel in bulk form "shall be advertised, offered for sale and sold only by measure, using the term 'cord' and fractional parts of a cord, or the cubic meter." VA and OH allow sales by cord and other units, like cubic feet and meters.

So... I would say that most states do have laws, codes or regulations about selling firewood, and most require that you sell in cord units. Some states allow cord units and other cubic units of measure.

 

[spacemule]

California also has a firewood sales section in the penal code. It is basically the same as Oregon's. Sales of firewood only by the cord, no ricks, racks, face cords, etc.

That's 2 out of 2 that I have looked at...

Yes, appears I posted results prematurely. However, 2 of the 3 state statutes I found right away prohibited selling firewood by the cord.

 

[smokechase II]

Ashamed of Windthrown

No problem with the face cord put down.
Nice clean listing of laws that were designed to protect the consumer from bad people, (those who sell face cords and such).

But,,,,,,you,,,,,,,sob,,,,,,,,misquoted Hank.

"Never give an inch. -Hank Stamper"


Never give a inch.

This goes to the heart of what the Stamper family was.

 

[windthrown]

No problem with the face cord put down.
Nice clean listing of laws that were designed to protect the consumer from bad people, (those who sell face cords and such).

But,,,,,,you,,,,,,,sob,,,,,,,,misquoted Hank.

"Never give an inch. -Hank Stamper"


Never give a inch.

This goes to the heart of what the Stamper family was.

I have seen it both ways; "Never Give An Inch," was the name of the film for Sometimes a Great Notion in the UK. The poster for that movie is where I got my avatar from.

And BTW: Ken Kesey did LSD in the barn on this property at a prangster party when this place was part of te Mu Farm (commune in the hippy days). Also the location of the book and film is less than 40 miles from here. If I can find the page in the book that the quote comes from, maybe I will change it. I think in the movie thay say never give _an_ inch though.

 

[windthrown]

OK, for now I will change the quote to Henry's sign that he hung above Hank's bed. Until I can find what Hank says to Henry later in the book... I will also change the quoter. :monkey:

 

[smokechase II]

First time I've ever Hi'Jacked a thread

http://www.amazon.com/gp/sitbv3/rea...=NwImCL6ffkvmWKyTrt3Q3T5CFWZDCuZ/tdJLacMITiQ=


*******************

 

[Festus Haggen]

We can also sell by the cubic meter, which I never realized. Thanks for prompting me to go back and actually read the act, Space.



Pennsylvania Consolidated Weights & Measures Act 155 of 1996, and the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Handbook 130 of 1998 requirements:

SECTION 1428 of Act 155 of 1996 requires that commodities ordered by telephone or in some manner wherein the purchaser is not present at the time the commodities are weighed, measured or counted, a written memorandum of the same shall be delivered to the purchaser.

SECTION 4142 of Act 155 of 1996 makes it illegal to sell, offer or expose for sale less than the represented quantity of any commodity.

SECTION 2.4 of Method of Sale regulations of NIST Handbook 130 of 1998 specifies:

2.4.1.1. Fireplace and Stove Wood: For the purpose of this regulation, this section shall appy to the sale of all wood, natural and processed, for use as fuel.

2.4.1. Definitions:

2.4.1.2. Cord: The amount of wood that is contained in a space of 128 cubic feet, when the wood is ranked and well stowed. For the purpose of this regulation, "ranked and well stowed" shall be construed to mean that pieces of wood are placed in a line or row, with individual pieces touching and parallel to each other, and stacked in a comapact manner.

2.4.1.3. Representation: A "representation" shall be construed to mean any advertisement, offering, invoice, or the like that pertains to the sale of fireplace or stove wood.

2.4.2. Identity: A representation may include a declaration of identity that indicates the species group (Example: 50% hickory, 50% miscellaneous softwood). Such a representation shall indicate, within 10 percent accuracy, the percentages of each group.

2.4.3. Quantity: Fireplace and stove wood shall be advertised, offered for sale, and sold only by measure, using the term "cord" and fractional parts of a cord, or the cubic meter, except that:

(a) Packaged Natural Wood: Natural wood offered for sale in packaged form in quantities less than 0.45 cubic meters (1/8 cord or 16 cubic feet) shall display the quantity in terms of cubic meters, to include decimal fractions of cubic meters; or cubic feet, to include fractions of cubic feet.

(b) Artificial compressed or Processed Logs: A single fireplace log shall be sold by weight, and packages of such individual logs shall be sold by weight plus count.

(c) Stove Wood Pellets or Chips: Pellets or chips not greater than 15 cm (6 inches) in any dimension shall be sold by weight. This requirement does not apply to flavoring chips.

2.4.4. Prohibitions of Terms: The terms "face cord", "rack", "pile", "truckload", or terms of similar import shall not be used when advertising, offering for sale, or selling wood for use as a fuel.

2.4.5. Delivery ticket or sales invoice: A delivery ticket or sales invoice shall be presented by the seller to the purchaser whenever any non-packaged fireplace or stove wood is sold. The delivery ticket or sales invoice shall contain at least the follwoing information:

(a) Name and address of the vendor
(b) Name and address of the purchaser
(c) Date delivered
(d) Quantity delivered and quantity upon which the price is based, if this differs from the quantity
(e) Price of the amount delivered
(f) Identity in the most descrptive terms commercially practicable, including any quality representation made in connection with the sale

SUBSECTION F of Weights & Measures Act 155 of 1996 states the following penalties:

Criminal penalties:
* First or second offense commits a summary offense
* Third or subsequent offense commits a misdemeanoer of third degree

Civil penalties: May be assessed not to exceed $10,000


For more information, please contact your local Department of Weights & Measures or the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, Rides and Measurement Standards, Harrisburg, Pa.

 

[windthrown]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/sitbv3/rea...=NwImCL6ffkvmWKyTrt3Q3T5CFWZDCuZ/tdJLacMITiQ=


*******************

Cannot see that one. Have to login to Amazon... or some such BS. However, here is a movie poster, and note the Stamper family motto: Never Give An Inch

 

[RiverRat2]

You get my Vote!!!

I think a good cord of wood should be like a good woman - tight & well stacked!!!!!!!!!

For the best two post in this thred,,,,

LOL been there!
by the way there is no e in WHISKY GRRRR
shame us scots keep all the good stuff for ourselves and export the crud lol

And I am really fond of good Whisky!!!!

Especially the single malted variety!!!!!!!

 

[smokechase II]

Page 31

“…………..“That ought to do ‘er”. He stood up, right pleased with his work, and walked across the room and nailed the plaque into the wall over the enormous crib he and the boys at the mill built for Henry Junior. (Where the #######ed ugly outfit hangs, all the time I’m growing up. NEVER GIVE A INCH! In Pa’s broad awkward hand. The dirtiest, crummiest cruddiest yellow under the sun and that awkward school kid lettering in red. NEVER GIVE A INCH! Just like a motto you might see in a Marine Sergeants orderly office. Or like something Coach Lewellyn might have drawn up to hang alongside his other hardnosed signs all over the locker room. NEVER GIVE A INCH! ……………”


Capitals and exclamation points are Kesey's. Copywrited material, of course.

*******************

" The novel was adapted into a film of the same name. In Britain it is more commonly known by its original release title: Never Give A Inch,[2] which refers to the motto painted in yellow machine-paint by the father, over a pious religious scene that was sent to his infant son by estranged relatives. " from wikipedia.

 

[windthrown]

“…………..“That ought to do ‘er”. He stood up, right pleased with his work, and walked across the room and nailed the plaque into the wall over the enormous crib he and the boys at the mill built for Henry Junior. (Where the #######ed ugly outfit hangs, all the time I’m growing up. NEVER GIVE A INCH! In Pa’s broad awkward hand. The dirtiest, crummiest cruddiest yellow under the sun and that awkward school kid lettering in red. NEVER GIVE A INCH! Just like a motto you might see in a Marine Sergeants orderly office. Or like something Coach Lewellyn might have drawn up to hang alongside his other hardnosed signs all over the locker room. NEVER GIVE A INCH! ……………”


Capitals and exclamation points are Kesey's. Copywrited material, of course.

*******************

" The novel was adapted into a film of the same name. In Britain it is more commonly known by its original release title: Never Give A Inch,[2] which refers to the motto painted in yellow machine-paint by the father, over a pious religious scene that was sent to his infant son by estranged relatives. " from wikipedia.

Not so. Wikipedia has its faults. The movie was called Never Give An Inch in the UK release. The poster I posted was from that movie release.

I found the section on page 31, but there is another section where Hank is talking with his father and that is the quote. Otherwise it is Henry Stamper Sr.'s quote written down whern Hank Jr. was a tyke.

 

[powelllake]

4x4x8 feet

 

[smokechase II]

Disrespectful to the author

Understood on Wikipedia. I posted that as it was interesting 'on further review' coming from your entry.

**************************

What went on were people in marketing not wanting to get a lot of mail and lost revenues with improper English.

The page 31 passage where Never Give a Inch is written over the top of a religious plaque is the key to Stamper mentality.
Not using an was meant by Kesey to show just how much Gypo's don't give in.

It makes perfect sense that the British and some Hollywood types would change it.

 

[windthrown]

Understood on Wikipedia. I posted that as it was interesting 'on further review' coming from your entry.

**************************

What went on were people in marketing not wanting to get a lot of mail and lost revenues with improper English.

The page 31 passage where Never Give a Inch is written over the top of a religious plaque is the key to Stamper mentality.
Not using an was meant by Kesey to show just how much Gypo's don't give in.

It makes perfect sense that the British and some Hollywood types would change it.

Yah, and it is Kesey messing with the English literary minds. Never Give A Inch is too hard to get wrapped around. He probably heard that term around here someplace. Knowing him and his types around here (the Pranksters and commune types that lived here in the 60's, vs the bone-head conservative loggers, that for the most part, are still living around here[both hippies and loggers]).