Question about JASO ratings?

[mikey517]

Reading the oil thread archives has gotten me a bit confused - not that hard - about these JASO ratings and why they are or are not displayed on the bottles.

For example, on Madsen's site, they say that their personal oil of choice is Stihl Ultra HP synthetic, but that their experience shows the Husky semi synth is fine oil as well. Then, there are numerous threads wherein the virtues of long term use of the Poulan synthetic, or the Woodland Pro synthetic are documented by knowledgeable members.

I recently found one thread that said Stihl Ultra synth is only FB rated, but the regular orange bottle dino oil is FD.
I checked the oils on my shelf; only the Echo power blend carries a rating label of FD. The Stihl Ultra synth, Husky XP semi blend, Woodland Pro synthetic and Poulan Pro carry no labels whatsoever.

My questions are why do the name brand oils - and obviously tried and true excellent oils - not have these labels, and is there a way to obtain the ratings of the above mentioned oils?

I couldn't find a clear answer in the old archives.

 

[Chris-PA]

Why worry about the brand name on the bottle? Look at the rating, and if it doesn't have one don't buy it.

 

[Stihl-Pioneer]

A lot of these companies don't and won't spend the money on the testing to get the rating when they sell a lot of oil and it's the oil name most people associate with and not the rating.

 

[Chris-PA]

A lot of these companies don't and won't spend the money on the testing to get the rating when they sell a lot of oil and it's the oil name most people associate with and not the rating.

Sure, but you can get FD rated oil at any big orange box store any time. It just requires leaving the brand name marketing propaganda behind.

 

[lone wolf]

JASO JASO Oil Specifications
2T specifications
Japeneese motorcycle manufacturers found the limits demanded by the API TC specifications too loose. Oils meeting the API TC standard still produced excessive smoke and could not prevent exhaust blocking. Therefore the Japanese Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel (JASO) introduced the following specifications:

JASO FA
Original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
JASO FB
Increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
JASO FC
Lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
JASO FD
Same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
Find out more about JASO's 2T specifications from their website.
4T specifications
Modern passenger car engine oils contain more and more friction modifiers. While this is the good thing for those segments (reduces wear and fuel consumption) it's bad for the motorcycles. At least for those motorcycles which use engine oil to lubricate their transmission and wet clutch. JASO introduced the MA and MB specification to distinguish between friction modified and non friction modified engine oils. Most four-stroke motorcycles with wet clutches need a JASO MA oil.

JASO MA
Japanese standard for special oil which can be used in 4-stroke motorcycle engine with one oil system for engine, gearbox and wet clutch system. Fluid is non-friction modified.
JASO MB
MB grade oils are classified as the lowest friction oils among motorcycle four-cycle oils. Not to be used where a JASO MA grade oil is required.
Find out more about theJASO MA and JASO MB specs.

 

[mikey517]

Why worry about the brand name on the bottle? Look at the rating, and if it doesn't have one don't buy it.

I think you guys may have misunderstood me. I'm not worried about which is the best - all subjective. I use Stihl Ultra synth, Woodland Pro synth, and Poulan Synth with good results and I'm happy. I have no doubts about the quality of these oils.

I was just wondering about the labeling process, and where people find the ratings even if not posted on the bottles.

Sorry. I was not trying to start another oil war thread, just curious.

 

[Ron660]

2t only means "2-cycle" and 4T means "4-stroke". One FD is Motul 710. Stihl HP Ultra is FB. Stihl's older, discontinued, HP Super was FD. There oil is blended close to my hometown in Shreveport (Omni), LA. A co-worker, that use to blend 2-cycle oils, said he would rate the following performance certifications: FB-medium, FC-good, FD-great.

 

[7sleeper]

I wrote this short information together some time ago, I'll just quote myself.

As I've said here to many times I don't care what name is one the bottle as long as it is

1. fullsynthetic for air cooled engines
2. fullfills the folowing norms API TC, JASO FC/FD, ISO L-EGD

Then it's ok for me. The above norms dictate

Specification after ISO-L-Norm (European norm)
Class => engine Performance
ISO-L-EGB (Global GB) => middle(= JASO FB)
ISO-L-EGC (Global GC) => middle and smokeless (= JASO FC)
ISO-L-EGD (Global GD) => high performance and smokeless (> JASO FD)

Specification after API-Norm (US norm)
Class => engine Performance
API-TA (TSC-1) => Mopeds
API-TB (TSC-2) => Motorscooters and Motorcycles
API-TC (TSC-3) => high performance engines
API-TD (TSC-4) => Outboardengines equivalent to NMMA TC-WII

Specification after JASO-Norm (Japanese norm)
Class => engine Performance
JASO (M345) FA => low
JASO (M345) FB => middle
JASO (M345) FC => middle and smokeless
JASO (M345) FD => high performance and smokeless

Translated by me from the german wikipedia page. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmieröl

Stihl HP Ultra does NOT fullfill the top norms!

I believe the reason why the brands are unlabeled in the US is simple. Without objective criteria, no one can find out what is behind the marketing hype! Just that simple. Leaving out information is always better than lying....

If you want to know what the norms Stihl oil fullfills, it's
HP Ultra
http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/...le/21356-1740/Zweitaktmotorenöl-HP-Ultra.aspx
HP Super
http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/...le/21142-1740/Zweitaktmotorenöl-HP-Super.aspx
HP
http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/...nhaftöle/21078-1740/Zweitaktmotorenöl-HP.aspx

And to believe that the companies are not doing the test's because of the price is simply naive.

I would never buy an oil without having written on it 1. the norms and 2. the oil type i.e. synthetic, partial or dino. Don't care much for marketing hype in that field!

7

 

[MacLaren]

I use Bel Ray H1R, but also have some Klotz Original Techniplate as well as R50. Anyone know the JASO ratings of both Klotz listed? Thx in advance.

 

[Matt81]

I think you guys may have misunderstood me. I'm not worried about which is the best - all subjective. I use Stihl Ultra synth, Woodland Pro synth, and Poulan Synth with good results and I'm happy. I have no doubts about the quality of these oils.

I was just wondering about the labeling process, and where people find the ratings even if not posted on the bottles.

Sorry. I was not trying to start another oil war thread, just curious.

It's not really something to get too worried about. There are many good 2-stroke oils to choose from. Some have a label and mention the JASO rating some do not. Just buy one of the ones that has a good rating on the label.

I know over here we have independent testing and quality control laboratories that publish their results online. Maybe there is something similar in the US? You have a much wider range of 2-stroke oils than us so our results would be of no help i fear. If you really must know i guess you could always contact the manufacturer to get more detailed rating specs on the oil in question.

I personally do not touch anything without a rating on the label and will not use any oil that does no conform to JASO FC or JASO FD. I have always used Dolmar synthetic blend as well as what was left of my Castrol 2-stroke synthetic motorbike oil. Just recently i have switched to Husqvarna LS+.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I use Bel Ray H1R, but also have some Klotz Original Techniplate as well as R50. Anyone know the JASO ratings of both Klotz listed? Thx in advance.

Both Klotz are FD rated but the R50 burns cleaner


Sent from my Autotune Carb

 

[MacLaren]

Both Klotz are FD rated but the R50 burns cleaner


Sent from my Autotune Carb

Awesome. Thx man!

 

[memory]

Reading the oil thread archives has gotten me a bit confused - not that hard - about these JASO ratings and why they are or are not displayed on the bottles.

For example, on Madsen's site, they say that their personal oil of choice is Stihl Ultra HP synthetic, but that their experience shows the Husky semi synth is fine oil as well. Then, there are numerous threads wherein the virtues of long term use of the Poulan synthetic, or the Woodland Pro synthetic are documented by knowledgeable members.

I recently found one thread that said Stihl Ultra synth is only FB rated, but the regular orange bottle dino oil is FD.
I checked the oils on my shelf; only the Echo power blend carries a rating label of FD. The Stihl Ultra synth, Husky XP semi blend, Woodland Pro synthetic and Poulan Pro carry no labels whatsoever.

My questions are why do the name brand oils - and obviously tried and true excellent oils - not have these labels, and is there a way to obtain the ratings of the above mentioned oils?

I couldn't find a clear answer in the old archives.

The Stihl oil I just bought has the JASO rating on the bottle.

Not to turn this into an oil bashing thread but since Echo Power Blend, which is a semi synthetic blend, has a JASO rating of FD, does that make it a better oil than the Stihl HP Ultra, which is a full synthetic, which has a JASO rating of FB?

 

[7sleeper]

There are always two components in the oil 1. the oil (dino, semi- or full synthetic) and 2. the additives. The additives can improve on the burning qualities of an oil(low smoke, etc.). So that is the reason I try to find an oil that has both sides of the coin. 1. fullsynthetic for air cooled engines and 2. fullfills the folowing norms API TC, JASO FC/FD, ISO L-EGD

7

 

[MacLaren]

Isnt it a good thing to run dino thru a new saw for the first few tanks?

 

[7sleeper]

What for? Production tolerances are so tight today that the run in will happen equally well with full synthetic. Might take a few more refills but the result should be the same.

7

 

[MacLaren]

What for? Production tolerances are so tight today that the run in will happen equally well with full synthetic. Might take a few more refills but the result should be the same.

7

Good deal. That answered that.

 

[CR888]

Pick up a bottle of H1r belray and try and find ANY rating. Iknow it costs alot of $$ to have your oil checked, tested and rated...but for belray they should have ratings especially with the price of it. I personally dont use full synthetic anymore..It ain't all its cracked up to be IMHO. People have in their heads that they need an expensive full synthetic oil to give their OPE its best life. Simply not true. There are plusses and minusses with full synth vs mineral vs semi synthetic.

 

[Chris-PA]

The Stihl oil I just bought has the JASO rating on the bottle.

Not to turn this into an oil bashing thread but since Echo Power Blend, which is a semi synthetic blend, has a JASO rating of FD, does that make it a better oil than the Stihl HP Ultra, which is a full synthetic, which has a JASO rating of FB?

Of course. The name on the front of the bottle means little. Although I thought Ultra was FC, but that doesn't change the answer.

 

[MacLaren]

I also have it in my head that I need multiple professional grade chsinsaws even though I dont burn a stick of wood and have never logged in my life. Go figurę