Question about SRT

[treeman82]

I tried using the SRT today with my Pantin and a Blake's on a long split tail. I liked the fact that I didn't have to pull in 2 feet to ascend 1, however it was weird getting used to the very staticy feeling of the rope. Any tips about the static feeling on the rope while ascending that would help? Would ascenders help?

BTW- You guys are bad people. j/k Now you have me working off a false crotch, using the VT or FP, the 30' lanyard, trying to get used to the SRT. Thank's a lot fellas

 

[Dan Flinn]

I started using a blake for my SRT ascent, but I am a larger climber and it the knot would tend to bind.

My vote is for ascenders. It took me awhile to get used to them, but now I wonder how I ascended before. Now I have to stop borrowing my partners and get my own set!

Dan

 

[lync]

Hey Matt!

I've been using SRT for a while, and my system uses 2 ascenders, blake's and a pantin should work just fine, but I think a second ascender works smoother than a friction hitch.

I think i've got a pretty good system, its great for getting past all the poision ivy/oak on the trunk and getting up into the canopy.

Deliver the throwbag to your high TIP, pull your climbing line through the crotch.

Eyeball a branch that you can step off onto just under your TIP.
From the working end of your line (eye splice or snap) tie a midline
figure 8 loop in your line, the same length as from your TIP to your step off point.

Use a locking beaner between the figure 8 loop and the falling end of the line, and pull down on the falling end till the beaner rides up and the rope chokes the branch at your TIP. The working end should be hanging below your TIP at your step off point, and you should be able to grab it once you get up there.

Tie your chainsaw about 2 feet off the ground to the falling end of your line to keep tension on it. Once you climb to the top, lanyard in, and tie into the working end of your climbing line which should be hanging right there. Tie into the falling end with with your friction hitch, remove ascenders.

If you pull down on the working end of the climbing line the beaner and fig.8 knot will come right to you. take out the beaner and knot, pull down on the working end and slide the slack through your hitch. Rope is positioned to work and your already tied in.

Corey

 

[Dan Flinn]

Corey,

That's a pretty cool idea.

I set my SRT line and tie off at the base of the tree. I make my ascent, taking with me a second climbing line that I will tie in with and work in the tree.

This way, I could use a static line for the SRT and a dynamic line for my working line.

Dan

 

[treeman82]

So you guys are basically saying that 2 ascenders are the better way to go (ankle and hand). Also, do you guys suggest taking a few bigger "steps" or taking a bunch of smaller ones? Taking them big feels really wierd, I guess just the difference between dynamic and static systems. How long is the learning curve on average going from conventional to SRT?

 

[treeclimber165]

I'm currently using a Pantin and a Mini-Traxion for SRT ascents, but I'm finding that I think a handled ascender would be easier. What I am thinking is a handled ascender with a loop runner attaching it to my friction hitch biner. This would let me have the friction hitch(Distal) as backup and the handled ascender would advance my hitch without needing to make a separate motion.

Ascending SRT is totally different from traditional looped method but I'm finding I can ascend into a big tree much faster than any other method. I'm still much faster and safer working the tree with a traditional looped tie-in though.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i have been playing with SRT a'lil, so am no expert; so at this point inquire and possibly warn that it may be improper to use a Blake's for a single line support, even as backup; for i believe that it is designed for Ddrt, and might be unsafe if full body weight would be on it in SRT?

 

[treeclimber165]

Ken,
I do not believe using a friction hitch as backup on SRT is unsafe, rather most hitches will lock up too tight when loaded with your full body weight and wouldn't release without fiddling. With traditional looped, the hitch only holds half your body weight so it doesn't tend to lock up as tightly.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i kinda have found the same tendency (locking up from overloading?), but have leaned away from that particular use, for it seems to me that it was stated against by ArborMaster and others on SRT? Perhaps that was just meant for descent with these hitches on a SRT? Perhaps that would be the warning?

Airing on the consevative till sure.......

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

DdRT is basicly the same as SRT, but with 2 ends of the line. The blakes is used on the traditional closed loop system (TCL )

Some sort of cammed ascender is much better then a knot IMO. A backup ascender is always a good thing to have, we must all realize that ankle devices are not true ascenders because the will not self-belay the climber. The only assist the climb.

Instead of a sewen loop, I like a sew daisechain because you can easilyplay with the length of connection to your harness.

For SRT I like a handled ascender on top and a Ropeman for backup, self belay. and tacky-gloves on my hands. Long pitches the Pantin goes on.

I tries the Mini-T, but found it a PITA to put on and take off.

lately I relegate the SRT for only very long climbs or wide trees I may need to come down for lunch on. Most of my ascents are DdRT, with paired ascenders.

 

[lync]

Matt,

I think 2 ascenders are the way to go. If your using the pantin, I would go for the kong, 2 handed ascender, or petzl with a short loop runner 6" hanging off the bottom of the handle, so you can pull with both hands. Back up the ascender with a prussic tied above it so that they both advance as you push up, and beaner it to the eye above the cam(s). I use a second handled ascender with a length of webbing that both feet can step in. I go for the full extension, then pull my knees up to my ears (or at least try). You can cover 2-3 feet per cycle! Big steps.

As far as using static rope I guess its good cause it has little bounce or give, but once I get on the line it feels as if most of the stretch is out of the rope. I would send the static rope down to the ground after the ascent.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Leave the static line in just in case another person needs to get in the tree.

 

[treeman82]

I wasn't referring to actually using a static line. I meant that when I tried the SRT I felt like there was no give in the system. I am really used to the cushioned feeling given from the conventional style. I am using the same rope to SRT with as I am to climb with.

 

[treeclimber165]

The reason there is no give is because you are moving twice as far each time you advance on the rope. It is a bit harder than traditional method, but much faster once you get used to it. You don't have the 2-1 reduction to reduce your load. I practiced it a couple different days in my back yard before ever trying it on a job (on the clock). I probably made 15-20 ascents practicing, and I've used it a dozen times on the job. It's getting easier each time I do it.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

P.S. After sleeping and sorting on the Blake's issue for the safety backup in SRT, i guess i yield and side with Brian.

i don't think that the ascending SRT issue was covered with the Blake's in the Arbomaster refrences, perhaps intention-ally they just didn't want one to be there feeling comfy with the Blake's and go to descend on SRT with it, from a DdRT habit. For that would be wrong, for as Bri said it does grip so tight in that use at full weight (making it quite safe for this use), so forcing a descent on that could burn up the frition hitch link as in the prusik used in a SRT descent. In fact they (AM)had made the point that day that you could descend on a prusik in a DdRT, because of the divided weight on the 2 lines. Actually they just alluded to it, and at break (so as to po-lightly not to take the impact of the class from them!) i kinda cornered them about it, for i had read all kinds of mountineering refrences warning against descent on a prusik, they explained that was for SRT. Once again (as with Tom's aluminum enlighten-meant of not being so fragile) i walked away dizzy as it coutered so much passionately drilled in info; taking my head a while to absorb and resort this coutering info!

So, once again i yield as i expand, but the warning about not descending on any of these friction hitches on a SRT just because you find yourself in a familiar setup that worx on a DdRT stands loudly. For the moutianeering refrences (that i only really have book knowledge of) speak of the prusik (then probably crossing over to these other hitches) burning up in peoples hands as they do descend on them! They say some get a way with it here and there, so it can build that false confidence! i had even asked why i can't descend on an SRT like that, if a 'JP' can descend on on a DdRT (@~2x weight); they said more was at work in the mechanix than just the divided weight factor. i inquired (inquiring minds need to know, don't ya know!!) if that would be from the overhead friction in DdRT, thereby still questioning friction 'saver' (oxymoron), they said not.

i take this not as a 'hit' (mostly cuz i wasn't corrected by JP)but the gift of knowledge of my passion; all that rings in my head now is "Fascinating Captain, ab-soul-lutely fascinating!".

"Live Long and Prosper"

-KC

 

[treeman82]

Brian's answer is what I was looking for. Thanks for your help guys. One question for Brian though, do you feel that adding the hand ascenders helps decrease the learning curve on SRT?

 

[treeclimber165]

Matt,
I'm only a few months ahead of you on this SRT stuff. Perhaps that's why I can relate to your questions better than someone who's been doing it for years. I'm still consciously thinking about what I'm doing and why, rather than doing it 'on instinct' like limb walking.

When I first got the Pantin a few months ago, I didn't think I needed a handled ascender. I figured I could grab the rope just fine with my hands like I always have. But with the increased effort needed for SRT, I think a handled ascender is the way to go. Another added benifit of using a handled ascender is that you can use a loop runner or something to attach it to your middle back-up (attached directly to your middle D-rings) and you won't need to use a separate motion to advance it with every stride. You end up doing more of a 'stand, sit' motion.

I'm not using SRT very often, but it is real fast in certain situations. As I gain more experience with it and refine my technique and equipment, I'm sure I will use it more and more.

 

[Rob Murphy]

I am using a Petzl right hand ascender on loop runner,pantin and a friction hitch in between on Ddrt . Its slower/easier than SRT because of the MA.... I like it . when i get to a decent limbI clip of the handled ascender and pantin and i am on my hitch ready to work...maybe am just getting old!!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

You won't find that Arbormaster addresses anything about SRT. Outside of their teaching so far.

I don't think that using any kind of friction hitch is a very safe backup. In fact, I am thinking this gives a very false sense of security. If the friction hitch is tied loose enough to slip I don't think ti would be likely to lock off soon enough if the ascender failed. Also, if the friction hitch is tied just above the ascender and the ascender pushes the hitch up, any thing that might cause the ascender to fail is really close to the hitch and both will be affected. Could lead to a ground fall.

Do you climbers who use handled ascenders clip a biner through the top hole to capture the rope? You sure should! If the rope ever drops back over the cam it could get chopped. Ouch...

I'd feel a lot better if more tree climbers used shelled ascenders like the MicroCender/grab. Since the rope is inside the shell there is a reduced chance of something jamming the cam. Another reason is that the grooves on the cam are much gentler on the rope. The teeth on the handled ascenders can be pretty aggressive and pick arbo ropes. If you are stuck on using handled ascenders, you should look at the ISC line.

http://iscwales.com/


The Rocker from ISC is a really good lower ascender that backs up your upper ascender. Gentle on the rope too.

Tom

 

[treeclimber165]

Tom,
I've checked out that site before, didn't have any luck finding important info like HOW MUCH $? and WHERE DO I CLICK TO BUY?
Do you have any info on where a person could actually BUY these items? (Those graphics- intense sites don't like my dial-up much) I really would prefer cammed ascenders instead of toothed, but haven't found them on a site I would buy from yet.