Questions about logging and/or clearing several acres on my land...

[slowp]

Try this:

Southeast Regional Office
2302 County Park Dr.
Cape Girardeau, MO, 63701
Phone: (573) 290-5730
Fax: (573) 290-5736

Always hire a forester before hiring a logger. You need to know how much sawtimber you have, how much pulpwood you got, etc. in order to see how much money you could make from logging your woodlot.

Depending on your acreage, you'll want to cruise the timber. Cruise means measuring to get a good volume estimate and what quality or grade of logs are there. You get different prices for different grades.

Are the majority of your trees straight? Do the branches start high up? That's an indication of the quality. It takes an experienced person to get a good timber cruise. What scars and rot are in the stand? That's called defect and you'll get that subtracted from the volume for an accurate estimate.

Then the logger's going to figure out his/her costs, and it may cost more if your ground is rocky and steep. That means a bit slower production. He wants to make money too.

If the log market is like here, you won't be making much money. Fuel prices are high, logs are low, and that doesn't leave much money for profit.

Does Missouri have a logger's association? Oregon and Warshington do. Loggers who belong have to take classes each year and some of them even manage to learn new techniques... Poking fun at you loggers.

 

[Metals406]

So, I talked to a couple locals today. One does "clearing" and one does "logging". The "clearing" guy told me that it's easiest to just pay to have it all cleared out (although, that'll cost several thousand). He said if I log it first, then it costs even more because stumps are ten times harder to get out then full trees. The "logging" guy said he can cut a pretty decent amount down and then you can bring a skid in and just push what's left into a pile and burn it (or something to that effect).

So basically, I'm no better off now after having talked to them. Obviously, I'd much rather make money from timbering/clearing the land than spend several thousand to have it cleared by dozer, but if I timber it and it's nearly impossible to clear all the stumps out, then I'm screwed.


Just curious, btw. How do I find a "local forester" in my area? Is that a state thing?

WATYF

Mills up here have their own Foresters. . . So I'm sure it'll be the same in Missouri. I cruised an 80 acre job with a forester from a local mill (I was bidding the job to select log it), and he was able to ballpark how much they'd pay for the wood we cruised. . . It really helped me with the bid numbers.

I wasn't kidding about having a good, well though out plan when I posted it earlier. You need to think about every aspect of your project, and figure worst case scenario for everything! If you figure worst case, you won't be disappointed if things don't go smoothly or you missed something. . . And if everything goes good, you feel good cause you came in under on your estimate.

SlowP siad it right. Get someone good, with good ideas, some creative sensibility to make your project into the best.

That rock field, for instance, could be bedrock. Something good to know.

The logging element should go hand in hand with the clearing- push over whole tree, ground man cuts off root wad and limbs and tops, merchantable wood goes in one pile, trash in another.

Dont rush in to it, and dont trust just anyone. Loook at old projects potential contractors have done.

:agree2:

 

[WATYF]

The logging element should go hand in hand with the clearing- push over whole tree, ground man cuts off root wad and limbs and tops, merchantable wood goes in one pile, trash in another.

See, this is exactly what I'd like to have done, but no one that I've talked to seems to do this kind of thing. All the loggers say "cut at the stump only" and all the clearers say "doze them over and the wood can't be used".

WATYF

 

[WATYF]

You need to think about every aspect of your project, and figure worst case scenario for everything! If you figure worst case, you won't be disappointed if things don't go smoothly or you missed something.

Well, right now, worst case scenario is I pay 6 grand to have the whole thing cleared, and I don't get to sell any of the wood.

WATYF

 

[hammerlogging]

Honestly, it looked like low grade sawtimber, and mostly pulpwood and sort of junky all in all-- no that there couldn't be some value hidden in there. I seriously doubt it will pay for clearing costs more than a couple pennies on the dollar, but the material DOES have value and if its just seeing that material go to waste that bothers you, thats good enough.

One problem is that it is 2 different lines of work. You're going to have to go with a clearing contractor but choose one who is more cooperative. It may take some extra work on your part, like a call to a consulting forester or a sawmill so you can find someone with a self loading truck. Or have it all decked so you can firewood it yourself.

1. excavator with thumb
2. dozer with root rake. Saves a ton of topsoil (which it looks like is pretty valuable there
Good luck.

And don't forget to buffer/ protect/ fence off your leave trees- trees and construction (especially from root damage) don't do well

 

[angelo c]

In my area of California you would start 100K in non-refundable plan check fees. Then you would go through 5 year or longer permit process with another 100K in fees. Fish and Game will make you forfit your 4th Amendment rights to unlawful search and seizure. You will be subject to unannounced inspections of your entire property for life. Your pond is potential habitat for endangered species, yes there are always endangered species to be found or created, so the county will be taking air photos looking for violations every year. Your property taxes will be about 1 1/2% of your assesed value and will be doubled every 10 years by school bond measures. You will be paying for metered water even though you are on your own well and you will pay for testing every two years. Oh, and unless your parcel is over 40 acres you can't cut any timber. Likely you will have to pay for a complete biotic survey where every tree will be counted and plotted.

I'm sorry 2dogs I must have missed it but what part of New Jersey is this "california" in ?
Also you missed the woodlands management plan and yes we have endangered species in NJ...they are called Libertarians.

A

 

[angelo c]

Damn dude... If my state went that way, I'd move. Just to make you feel worse, I pay about 70 bucks in property taxes on 65 acres, and there are no restrictions or laws or any other such nonsense for what I'm doing. I don't even need to let them know. Not even for the cabin (once I build it) or the lake. Hell, I'm allowed to put a septic tank in myself if I want.

WATYF

Round these parts you can't even put in a "tracking pad" without the environmental and soil conservation dept showing up. I believe a soil disturbance permit was $850. A tracking pad is an area that kind of looks like your driveway but is large 2-3" stone so that soil doesn't get on to the street.

 

[secureland]

To the OP,

Call your county ag or forestry department and get an inventory of what you have there. This will most likely be free and give you a value of your timber.
With this info you can make the rest of your decisions. If you can't get a government forester out, then you may be able to find a private forester that will offer a free consultation before they do a full all inclusive inventory (an honest forester can tell you in short order if you've got something or not). If they want to charge you money before they show up or give you an opinion then call the next guy. Any good forester will wait to see if there's value in the timber before they charge you, and if there is value the percentage you pay them is justified.

 

[Bearcreek]

Round these parts you can't even put in a "tracking pad" without the environmental and soil conservation dept showing up. I believe a soil disturbance permit was $850. A tracking pad is an area that kind of looks like your driveway but is large 2-3" stone so that soil doesn't get on to the street.

California, China, New Jersey. I don't mind visiting communist states on occasion but I wouldn't want to live there. To the OP. Obviously, the stumps have to be taken out for the cabin site and any yard area but they can stay for the area that's just being cleared for a view. You'd probably be better off with a logger for that area if they think it's worth while to them.

 

[lego1970]

I agree with a few statements on this thread.

Try to get a forrester to determine if any of the trees are of value. Get on University of Missouri website to get latest stumpage prices, and or woodweb site for other info such as determining board foot, etc, etc.

Saving some trees would sure make the property look nice. (if you go this route make sure to keep heavy equipment off the root zone of the trees you want to save)

From what I could see in the pics, the Hickory's and Oak's don't appear to be big enough to be of much value, however they would still be worthy of cutting up for firewood. You probably have quite a few cords of wood there.

Good luck.