Race chain

[blsnelling]

Safe looking or not, I just found out that's a winning race chain with 20 races on it

 

[timberwolf]

Here is a chain done up for smaller saw, works well in the 3 cube modified and stock saws up to 5 cube.

When the cutters on the chain are small and well back like these then the rivets become a problem as they become as wide the kerf.

LOL! "winning" is very competition dependant.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Safe looking or not, I just found out that's a winning race chain with 20 races on it

When a chain is put together and the rivets expanded they expand back beyond the tie strap sides. They will take a little effort to remove the tie strap even once the rivet heads are ground off but on that chain even the tie straps have been ground thinner, I myself would stop when the rivet heads are flush with the tie strap sides, some dog boning is ok, this all helps with reducing the friction between the chain and the wood being cut.
Pioneerguy600

 

[blsnelling]

When a chain is put together and the rivets expanded they expand back beyond the tie strap sides. They will take a little effort to remove the tie strap even once the rivet heads are ground off but on that chain even the tie straps have been ground thinner, I myself would stop when the rivet heads are flush with the tie strap sides, some dog boning is ok, this all helps with reducing the friction between the chain and the wood being cut.
Pioneerguy600

That's basically how the chain owner put it. It's kind of like a crank and flywheel, since there's a taper there.

 

[redprospector]

Safe looking or not, I just found out that's a winning race chain with 20 races on it

That's racing. I've seen chains that I just shook my head at, but in the wood were fast. It's all about experimenting, and finding out what you can do to something off the shelf to make it the fastest it can be. To be the fastest you have to take it to the edge. That point right before everything goes to :censored:.

Andy

 

[2000ssm6]

That's racing. I've seen chains that I just shook my head at, but in the wood were fast. It's all about experimenting, and finding out what you can do to something off the shelf to make it the fastest it can be. To be the fastest you have to take it to the edge. That point right before everything goes to :censored:.

Andy

Red, I know you have some pics for us!:dunno:

 

[redprospector]

Red, I know you have some pics for us!:dunno:

I haven't taken pictures of a race chain in a long time, they've all been seen before.

This is an example of pushing it past the edge. KX250 made 11 pieces out of an 88 DL .404 chain. It might have held up on a chainsaw, but why would you want to run .404 as a race chain on a chainsaw?

This one's been seen before. It's 3/8 .050

Back of the cutter. Ya'll don't be stealing my tricks now!

Andy

 

[4000fixed]

Full race chain? not quite.

That's racing. I've seen chains that I just shook my head at, but in the wood were fast. It's all about experimenting, and finding out what you can do to something off the shelf to make it the fastest it can be. To be the fastest you have to take it to the edge. That point right before everything goes to :censored:.

Andy

I have to agree with reds quote. The chain I've been grinding for the local guys is by no means any thing close to what your describing as a race chain. But, they are almost twice as fast as a stock chain with out the time involved. Haven't found anyone in my neck of the woods serious enough to pay $150.00 to $250.00 for a real race chain.i have sold over 400 of them.
4000fixed

 

[nmurph]

4k.....i can't see anything you are doing other than filing off the back of the cutter. you mean your chains are twice as fast as stock with only this mod?

 

[MCW]

$65.00 and have sold over 400 of them.

$65 a chain and all you do is grind the back off the cutter? As far as the sharpening side of things goes there is nothing special there, in fact it may not even cut any better than a stock chain with what is quite simply a standard round grind job. I can go out to my grinder right now and therefore turn a $20 chain into a $65 chain in minutes. Twice as fast as a standard chain without touching even the raker height and still having it round ground?
400 sold you say? Hmmm...

 

[pioneerguy600]

That's basically how the chain owner put it. It's kind of like a crank and flywheel, since there's a taper there.

That`s it, but the taper is not huge and it would not take a huge amount of side pull to pop the tie strap off, however the pull is in , sheer, so if the cutting pressure is constant without any great amount of shock the chain will continue to stay together.
Pioneerguy600

 

[timberwolf]

That's racing. I've seen chains that I just shook my head at, but in the wood were fast. It's all about experimenting, and finding out what you can do to something off the shelf to make it the fastest it can be. To be the fastest you have to take it to the edge. That point right before everything goes to .

I agree sometimes it is surprising how well things work despite their looks, but having an ungly chain be a real fast chain is very much the exception to the rule.

It is like port work, a rough port job with good numbers and tuning will still look fast when run against a stock saw but when putting that rough porting up against a saw with good clean porting work and other factors being equal the rough work loses. Same goes for chain, to be fast every cutter needs to cut at maximum efficiency if even one tooth is off the whole chain will cut less efficently and the stop watch will run longer. If you can look at a chain and see differences in angles and the shapes of cutters one tooth to the next there is no question that each tooth is not cutting at its personal best and hurting the chain as a whole.

Could not agree more, "the fastest it will be" is so often the point right before failure... endless compromise between fast and reliable.

 

[ironman_gq]

$65 a chain and all you do is grind the back off the cutter? As far as the sharpening side of things goes there is nothing special there, in fact it may not even cut any better than a stock chain with what is quite simply a standard round grind job. I can go out to my grinder right now and therefore turn a $20 chain into a $65 chain in minutes. Twice as fast as a standard chain without touching even the raker height and still having it round ground?
400 sold you say? Hmmm...

It also looks like the top plate angle has been changed. It looks a little steeper like 40* instead of 30-35*

 

[4000fixed]

race chain?

It also looks like the top plate angle has been changed. It looks a little steeper like 40* instead of 30-35*

400 in 15 years. Yes, 40 degrees. The back being ground off just makes the tooth smaller with a little less drag. I guess the only reason there buying them is that there comparing them to what there using already. Same reason my grandfather traded his Clinton 2 man gear drive in for a Stihl Lightning back in the day. "it was faster". Might be able to get the same results or better by grinding the 40 when the tooth is almost gone.
4000fixed

 

[redprospector]

I agree sometimes it is surprising how well things work despite their looks, but having an ungly chain be a real fast chain is very much the exception to the rule.

It is like port work, a rough port job with good numbers and tuning will still look fast when run against a stock saw but when putting that rough porting up against a saw with good clean porting work and other factors being equal the rough work loses. Same goes for chain, to be fast every cutter needs to cut at maximum efficiency if even one tooth is off the whole chain will cut less efficently and the stop watch will run longer. If you can look at a chain and see differences in angles and the shapes of cutters one tooth to the next there is no question that each tooth is not cutting at its personal best and hurting the chain as a whole.

Could not agree more, "the fastest it will be" is so often the point right before failure... endless compromise between fast and reliable.

I agree. An ugly weld generally won't be strong, and an ugly chain generally won't be fast.
I was refering to looking at someone's chain and wondering "what the :censored: were they thinking when they did that?"
It's the same in any racing. Someone thinks outside the box and comes up with some little something that gains just a wee little bit. Many times being covered up by a bunch of other stuff that makes it real hard to see just what makes it fast.
A person admitting to how little they really know about chain, and a strong desire to learn is a crucial step to learning how to make a faster chain.
A lot of people admit they don't know much, but don't have the desire.
Even more people are too proud to admit they don't know everything there is to know.

Me? I've still got a lot to learn.

Andy

 

[Gypo Logger]

Great thread guys but I find something inherently immoral about buying a race chain.....


.....make the fastest chain you can.......and be happy with it.


Great chain photos!

Plus, you could end up with an Art Martin, "decoy" chain like I did or a Walt Galer 15 minute chain. lol
Remember the "Great Chain Race" thread.
John

 

[J.W Younger]

Red, on your work square ground do you every lower the rakers below .025 as the cutter gets shorter.
On mine I'm using a feeler gauge and .025 even tho the cutters are well back.300 or longer gullet and it seems to cut well.
I suppose it depends on type of wood and the saw,just wondering your opinion on it.

 

[redprospector]

Red, on your work square ground do you every lower the rakers below .025 as the cutter gets shorter.
On mine I'm using a feeler gauge and .025 even tho the cutters are well back.300 or longer gullet and it seems to cut well.
I suppose it depends on type of wood and the saw,just wondering your opinion on it.

.025 is about as low as I ever go.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Plus, you could end up with an Art Martin, "decoy" chain like I did or a Walt Galer 15 minute chain. lol
Remember the "Great Chain Race" thread.
John

Decoy chain.
Was it ground in the shape of a duck?

Andy

 

[Gypo Logger]

.025 is about as low as I ever go.

Andy

I think it's better to go .020 and play with sprocket size instead, but I'm just a GTG'er. Lol
John