rope

[maxburton]

We only use our lines for climbing, rigging, or pulling/tagging, but never more than one. But I've seen plenty of folks take rope that was no longer safe for climbing and use it for rigging. What do you folks think of that practice? Good points about the cost of rope. The savings from using weaker rope is hardly anything.

 

[rbtree]

max, I never retire an old climb line, as many do. I use it for light branch lowering where i know the loads are never going to be over even 5 % of its new tensile strength. And I use them for non critical pulling situations, where it only takes the strength of a couple people at most to pull the tree over.

Now if others want to be more cautious, I can only applaud them for being cautious and prudent.

 

[rebelman]

Yeah, non critical pulling operations. Hand pulling, that sort of thing. I need to replace some, I'm thinking 300' of orange high visibility. Right now I'm like Blue Rope is 150' orange rope 80'. Both have old and new nicks, just tiny. The short rope is real smooth from overuse. Only once in a great while will I use the climbing line to pull with. I use a conventional system, spreader snaps, no hobbs, rarely a false crotch, and I work each rope well, but it still takes a while to wear out these modern day multibraids. Most of my pulling can be done by hand, so I rarely even approach any kind of tensile limit.

 

[gumneck]

Saw it in boater's world

I saw some double braid nylon dock line the other day that was prespliced. It was 1/2" X 15 ft. Made by Sea Bowld(sp?). The splice looked very well done. The rope felt kind of limp though. I think it was about $20. Noticed the tensile strength was 8400 lbs.

I thought about picking it up for a second split tail, but passed. Figured I'd wait to learn the v.t. and get the appropriate cord.

 

[(WLL)]

Though he may be a troll, there's a point in there. When it comes to climbing lines and other lines upon which lives depend, there can be no substitute for the best. Safety first. But for tag lines, pull lines, and rigging small branches, I don't think it's unreasonable to look for alternatives. Most of us just use retired climbing lines, which we already have decided are unsafe. I remember seeing a new brand of rope, "Black Widow" or something like that, that is narrow and not made for climbing, but still strong enough for other purposes. What if Home Depot sold a rope rated for 1,000 pounds? I'd bet someone could use it. It wouldn't be me, though...

who do u work 4 max? i also live in d-town

 

[jomoco]

Practical testing

Many years ago I gathered an assortment of rated climbing lines, cut 25 foot lengths off each, and then tied each line to a eucalyptus stump, the other end was tied to my rear bumper, with my toy truck in low 4WD, I would slowly pull forward until there was no slack in the rope I was testing, then I would nail the throttle in the truck, each rope failed except the Samson True Blue.

This is the line I use to climb with since that rather crude test, the True Blue is a little heavier than most, but to me it has proven it's ability to hold up where others failed.

Work Safe

jomoco

 

[Doctor Dave]

Of course, there is more to it than just breaking strength. I don't have time right now to dig up the specs, but some cheap (non-climbing) ropes are much more likely to snag and/or melt.

I've been using Arborplex for years and like it just fine. Because I work alone, I don't rig and lower limbs (although sometimes I throw 'em); if I can't dump it below me, I refer the job to my favorite tree service.

 

[Climb020]

. Most of us just use retired climbing lines, which we already have decided are unsafe.

As well as this is a no no. Here is a quote from Sherrill's web page:
"Stevenson’s Davey colleague Mark Noark explains that damaged ropes need to be executed—cut into 10-foot sections—so that no one else could mistakenly or purposely use it for climbing or other work."

Too often people climb on their rigging limbs after the safety has been compromised due to shock loading. I cut all my ropes up and either throw them away or use the good pieces for strapping down ladders and such. Lives are worth more then the $100 for a new one.

I can't even imagine where to start with this HD crap you guys are talking about. Next some one will be saying they get good deals on the poulans they sell. Give me a brake. First off HD or Lowes or whatever HARDWARE/HOME IMPROVEMENT store you go to knows nothing about tree work and if you are going there for supplies like this then maybe you should look for another job. Lets think this through now. A rope with a 1000lbs tensile has a safe WLL of 100 at 10:1. Ok still got you guys here, right? Now I'm no rocket science here but why would you ever need to rig pieces of 100lbs or less on a normal basis throughout the tree. Must be one small tree.
Any piece under 75lbs that needs to get rigged I just put a webbing strap on it and attach it to my saddle, cut the piece real slow and let hang off my saddle where I then either cut in half if it to heavy or just throw the whole piece out of the way.

 

[maxburton]

That post you quoted is from a while back, but I stand by it....some of it, anyway. The crew needs to know which rope is for rigging, which is for climbing, and which is for tagging. Even if you throw away ropes that are worn out, there will still be rigging lines that look fine that a person who doesn't know better could climb on. The crew should all know which ropes are for which application. If that's the case, there's nothing wrong with having a three strand or a worn out braided line for tagging or light, non-critical rigging.

 

[Climb020]

And that is why I keep mine in bags. I can tell from the top of they tree if the have the right bag or not. Red bags are for climbing and all others are for rigging.

 

[clearance]

i've been using the skinny 1/4" brown rope from Home Depot for awhile now. probably have dropped hundreds of good sized trees with it. it's a bit frayed(sp?), cut up, and unraveling...but still works perfect. i think there's a general misunderstanding with rope limits, tree guys, and physics 101. by that i mean, people go out and buy ropes rate for 10,000lbs. if cut and pulled correctly using it's weight and gravity, the physics of felling a tree will use only about 200 lbs. that's why 1 worker can pull a big tree down. so here you guys are buying $300 ropes that have 20,000lb strengths only to be wasted because 200 lbs is what is really needed. i bet i can take one down with a strong fishing line if i cut the trunk the right way. wouldn't that be a neat video to post... me taking a tree down with a fishing pole. again, it's all waste money. don't you agree?

The Treeinnovator, in another life, Treeminator. For those who don't know.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

As well as this is a no no. Here is a quote from Sherrill's web page:
"Stevenson’s Davey colleague Mark Noark explains that damaged ropes need to be executed—cut into 10-foot sections—so that no one else could mistakenly or purposely use it for climbing or other work."

In my opinion rules like this are made by lawyers and companies trying to sell more product. I often times downgrade a rope from climbing to light rigging in non-hazardous situations. (Lowering small stuff not over valuables). Or I might use it for a pull line etc. Larger diameter ropes that get worn are not used for heavy duty lowering any more and are relegated to lighter duties. Finally when they have reached their useful end they get the bad parts cut out and then the shorter sections are used or they are given to employees to practice on. And when lowering no one should even be close to the area where they are lowering. Thats the first thing I teach my employees when lowering. That 200' of rope is there for a reason. Stand back. Just my 2cs.... Work safe..... Mike

 

[juststumps]

i've been using the skinny 1/4" brown rope from Home Depot for awhile now. probably have dropped hundreds of good sized trees with it. it's a bit frayed(sp?), cut up, and unraveling...but still works perfect. i think there's a general misunderstanding with rope limits, tree guys, and physics 101. by that i mean, people go out and buy ropes rate for 10,000lbs. if cut and pulled correctly using it's weight and gravity, the physics of felling a tree will use only about 200 lbs. that's why 1 worker can pull a big tree down. so here you guys are buying $300 ropes that have 20,000lb strengths only to be wasted because 200 lbs is what is really needed. i bet i can take one down with a strong fishing line if i cut the trunk the right way. wouldn't that be a neat video to post... me taking a tree down with a fishing pole. again, it's all waste money. don't you agree?

just remember,, this is called "NATURAL SELECTION" ..

 

[Jon Denver]

I can pull over a couple of backleaner bonsai trees with fishing line. Sometimes the midgets complain about how it cuts into their hands though.

 

[eljefe]

And the answer is

ddhlakebound you asked a good- a very good question. How much does a 150 lb limb weigh when it drops 10 feet and is brought to a quick stop. The rigging rule of thumb answer is- and the rule of thumb is very good for this. For each 1 foot of drop add the weight of the item. So 150 lb for 10 feet is 1500 lbs plus itself or a total of 1650 lbs. This is the add up. The add down, as I calls it, is how much do you lose on your rope. Take a somewhat worn rope- not too worn but a bit. It's 6000 lb test, but lose 20% for wear. Now we've got a 4800 lb rope. Reduce it by 50% for a knot. 2400 lb. Ok so now for the 150 lb estimate- it's low by 20% and the drop estimate is low by 20%. We now have a load at the end of the drop of 2364 lb. And likely a big damn rope snap. That's why we use a seemly overrated rope, which is not overrated at all. Eljefe

 

[ddhlakebound]

ddhlakebound you asked a good- a very good question. How much does a 150 lb limb weigh when it drops 10 feet and is brought to a quick stop. The rigging rule of thumb answer is- and the rule of thumb is very good for this. For each 1 foot of drop add the weight of the item. So 150 lb for 10 feet is 1500 lbs plus itself or a total of 1650 lbs. This is the add up. The add down, as I calls it, is how much do you lose on your rope. Take a somewhat worn rope- not too worn but a bit. It's 6000 lb test, but lose 20% for wear. Now we've got a 4800 lb rope. Reduce it by 50% for a knot. 2400 lb. Ok so now for the 150 lb estimate- it's low by 20% and the drop estimate is low by 20%. We now have a load at the end of the drop of 2364 lb. And likely a big damn rope snap. That's why we use a seemly overrated rope, which is not overrated at all. Eljefe

Thanks, we went into a lengthy discussion of the topic in this thread, and it also provides links to several other sources.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=52078&highlight=%22Trees+Physics%22

Sorry Trollminator, nothing in that thread about Home Depot rope, or illegal Guatemalans eating 99 cent hotdogs

 

[(WLL)]

Thanks, we went into a lengthy discussion of the topic in this thread, and it also provides links to several other sources.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=52078&highlight=%22Trees+Physics%22

Sorry Trollminator, nothing in that thread about Home Depot rope, or illegal Guatemalans eating 99 cent hotdogs

 

[eljefe]

Phooey

My apologies. I meant to and should have included my source on the each foot of drop increases the weight.... It comes from Don Blair's 'Arborist Equipment'. A real good book. ElJefe

 

[c5c7c9]

More wasted gas!!!

Here I go again, Back to the dollar store, to return my new "climbing rope" I weigh 240 lbs. and it said on the pkg. it was 300 lb test so I figured I was good to go! :greenchainsaw: I should have suspected it wouldn't be safe seeing it had been reduced to 2 pks. for a dollar

 

[mcb]

please excuse a noob question. ive been unable to find anything saying that its an unwise practice to climb a new rigging line. (one thats never been shock loaded.)

im looking at the price of arbor-master 1/2" rigging line at $49 for 150 feet. its got a 6300lb avg breaking strength, which exceeds the 5,400lb min to climb with. i assume 3 strand feels odd compared to 12 or 16, but tree master is a common climbing line still sold today in 3 strand which apparently was the norm back in the day.

if i buy the arbor-master to do very light rigging duty (small limbs, no shocking at all), is there is any reason i cant climb it when convenient from time to time?