Running Newer Stihl models

[JHctRednek]

I had the opportunity to run a new MS362 the other day (by new I mean less than 10 tanks thru it) and I must say I was not impressed. The new Stihls (MS362 and MS441) seem to have very "peak" power, by that I mean when in the cut any little force in the cut and they seem to bind almost instantly where with the older Stihls (038, 360, 044, 440, 460, 650) seem to cut with a broader power band, you could feel when you were biting off more than the saw could pull and ease up and she would keep right on cuttin. When I bought my MS460 I got to run a MS441 and it felt the same way. I must admit that the new ones feel great and have great throttle response but what gives?

My feelings stem from the other day when I sold my MS310 to a coworker and he wanted to run it next to his brother's new MS362. My old 310 was nothing special just taken care of with a MM but it seemed to rip thru 18" oak with just fluctuations in RPM and never bind. Where as the MS362 would go from ripping thru wood to binding in a heart beat. Both saws were functionally equal (good chains with similar bars, clean air filters etc). I ran both the same way (fan in half way then pull off the dogs and rip down), but I was not getting along with the MS362.

I have had lots of saws thru the years but I am no logger, I cut 25 - 30 cord a year and some trees to sell to the saw mills. I started out with an old 038 but have owned various Homelites, Macs, Huskys, Echo's, Makitas and Poulans thru the years all used and mostly picked up to repair and only kept for a season or two. My current fleet is mostly older (MS260, 038, MS460, MS650 (currently out of commission) and a 298 xp)

So my question to those of you who run these saws for a living, is it just me or do the new Stihls (MS362 and MS441) run different than there predecessors? Is the power band in the new Stihl saws different? Is this the wave of the future and I need to get used to it?

Thanx

 

[sodbreaker]

For what it's worth I bought a 180 last spring to replace my 017 and came to a similar conclusion. But a my 290 and my 391 both of which I bought new never seemed to have that problem. My 391 runs away with my 039 but to be fair my 039 was bought used with no way for me to know how many hours are on it. I am becoming more and more skeptical of the newer saws with more crap on them. I hope to be proven wrong. But I'll let someone else use their money to accomplish that.

FWIW
Sod Breaker

 

[MEATSAW]

An MS261 tuned properly will impress you with its power band. No comment on other new stihls.

 

[Anthony_Va.]

You must have not ran the m-tronic 441. It's a torquey saw. The 362 runs like a dawg until it's broken in. 10 tanks aint even close. It needs at least 25 tanks before it starts to wake up. A muffler mod also really wakes them up. Thats the main thing that kills a new saw, the clogged up mufflers.

 

[Currently]

You must have not ran the m-tronic 441. It's a torquey saw. The 362 runs like a dawg until it's broken in. 10 tanks aint even close. It needs at least 25 tanks before it starts to wake up. A muffler mod also really wakes them up. Thats the main thing that kills a new saw, the clogged up mufflers.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have both of those saws and agree it takes a while for them to break in.

The 441cm has an impressive grunty torque when burying and leaning on the dogs.

Looking at getting them ported this winter.

 

[Andyshine77]

Running a well used saw against a new saw really isn't fair. On top of that the newer saw likely had a better chain, with a good chain you can't lean on a saw and you really shouldn't anyway.

 

[sawfun9]

I found the 441 to have a broader rpm range with more torque down low compared to my 044's and the same top speed as my 044's. To me the older saws are more peaky. I really like the 441's powerband, just not the weight, size and feel of it.

 

[saxman]

I found the 441 to have a broader rpm range with more torque down low compared to my 044's and the same top speed as my 044's. To me the older saws are more peaky. I really like the 441's powerband, just not the weight, size and feel of it.

I agree, when comparing my MS361 to my MS362, the 361 is more peaky. The 362 has a wider power band and more torque at lower RPMs. It has been my experience that the stratified engines behave in this manner

Steve

 

[mountainlake]

Sounds to me the ones that dog easy are set too lean, give them a bit more fuel. Steve

 

[XSKIER]

Sounds to me the ones that dog easy are set too lean, give them a bit more fuel. Steve

Yep. My whole fleet of Stihl has the high speed screw right out against the stop, half turn past on my MS192TC with opened muffler. I think setting them lean is part of their fuel economy and emissions strategy. Most manufactures do the same thing, but you only hear about Stihl or John Deere because they are supposed to be the best no matter what.

Another thing to consider, once the saw "bogs", falls off peak power, the mixture is effectively leaned out more. As rpms drop, so does signal through the carburetor venturi. Independent of throttle position, as air velocity slows less fuel will be pulled through the fuel nozzles. For this reason, two cycles with relative large bore carburetors often have poor throttle response and are more sensitive to falling off peak power than a similar engine with a smaller bore carburetor. In regards to OPE I don't lean on them to run, but apply full throttle and feed as nessecery.

Hey JHctRednek,
In an unrelated note, my new MS362 (like from the first tank, not 25 later) cuts easy 25% faster than my old MS290 did. Both of my saws are stock, but they say a muffler mod makes a world of difference. The 310 "mod" you were racing against must just be a "ringer" and be faster than other saws in its category.

 

[nitro]

ive got 4 tanks thru my 362 and so far im pleased with how she runs and hopefully ill get another 16 tanks thru quickly,but i had to put a coil on my 036 and i found myself trying the new coil abit too long . i dont know if i miss the saw or if i just dont want to get the new saw dirty

but so far im very pleased with the 362...

 

[JHctRednek]

....But I'll let someone else use their money to accomplish that.

Couldn't agree with you more, that's why all my saws but one were bought used :smile2:

On top of that the newer saw likely had a better chain, with a good chain you can't lean on a saw and you really shouldn't anyway.

Don't really follow you there, I'm not talking about trying to bend the bar around the log kinda force but more than just the weight of the saw.

I agree, when comparing my MS361 to my MS362, the 361 is more peaky. The 362 has a wider power band and more torque at lower RPMs. It has been my experience that the stratified engines behave in this manner

Steve

I guess I am gonna have to wait til the price of the used MS362s comes down and buy one to run for a season and really make up my mind.

I guess I am biased for now, any porters or builders want to chime in?

 

[mortenh]

I think setting them lean is part of their fuel economy and emissions strategy. Most manufactures do the same thing, but you only hear about Stihl or John Deere because they are supposed to be the best no matter what.

You're right on that one. To pass emissions standards, the carbs are adjusted to run very lean. Open up the "H" setting, and you get much more power (and higher emissions).

 

[rob066]

You're right on that one. To pass emissions standards, the carbs are adjusted to run very lean. Open up the "H" setting, and you get much more power (and higher emissions).

This isnt an emission thing. But you get some loggers who turn the high up. It sounds impressive but they dont realize they are losing torque. Eventually their saws are fried prematuraley. They think they are doing themselves a favor with the high speeds. I realize saw companies are setting their saws lean to pass emissions but comes with the penalty of torque and longevity of the saws life. It comes down to individuals that can properly tune their own saws to get the max of torque and longevity out of their saws. Most dealers stick with factory parameters that dont fix a thing.

 

[rms61moparman]

The new Stihls are totally unimpressive for me.
Every saw manufacturer has a saw that will outperform the comparable Stihl and at lower cost and usually less weight.

Stihl is doing exactly what John Deere did in the 50's, Studebaker did in the 60's, McCulloch did in the 70's and countless others have done since.


Mike

 

[74fencer]

The new Stihls are totally unimpressive for me.
Every saw manufacturer has a saw that will outperform the comparable Stihl and at lower cost and usually less weight.

Stihl is doing exactly what John Deere did in the 50's, Studebaker did in the 60's, McCulloch did in the 70's and countless others have done since.


Mike

I have kind of been thinking this myself. Well put.

 

[Whitespider]

I haven't been overly impressed with any of the Stihl saws since they stopped "riveting" the badges... and lost all interest when they dropped the "0" and went to "MS". The loss of riveted badges was a sign they were starting to "cheapen" them up, mass production, all that... by the time the "MS" designation came about, the saws didn't even "feel" the same to me (I'm sure the EPA can be blamed for some of that). At the same time, none of the competitors saws interest me either... so, I guess I'm stuck. Figure if'n I see and older Stihl (with "riveted" badges), in decent condition, at a garage or farm sale sometime that I can buy at a reasonable price (ya' know? cheap)...

 

[7sleeper]

I haven't been overly impressed with any of the Stihl saws since they stopped "riveting" the badges... and lost all interest when they dropped the "0" and went to "MS". The loss of riveted badges was a sign they were starting to "cheapen" them up, mass production, all that... by the time the "MS" designation came about, the saws didn't even "feel" the same to me (I'm sure the EPA can be blamed for some of that). At the same time, none of the competitors saws interest me either... so, I guess I'm stuck. Figure if'n I see and older Stihl (with "riveted" badges), in decent condition, at a garage or farm sale sometime that I can buy at a reasonable price (ya' know? cheap)...

Yeah I always suspected EPA responsible for eliminating those riveted badges! Those filthy scoundrels probally found out that the rivets caused a unobstructive air flow......

:hmm3grin2orange:

7

 

[fearofpavement]

Man, I am really not following how the attaching of a badge in any way impacts the quality or performance of anything. Who cares how the badge is held on as long as it doesn't fall off? If it was one penny cheaper to use a different method, most manufacturers would go in that direction as it could wind up being hundreds of thousands of dollars when spread over a few million units. I have a bunch of different saws but if you asked me which had riveted badges I would have to actually look at them since I never paid attention. Maybe none of them do?

 

[Andyshine77]

Yeah I always suspected EPA responsible for eliminating those riveted badges! Those filthy scoundrels probally found out that the rivets caused a unobstructive air flow......

:hmm3grin2orange:

7

Yes them there rivets can make a saw really run.:hmm3grin2orange: