Split fire 3465 or American AM25HH

[air19]

After lots of research and reading, and thanks for everyone's comments on all the log splitters threads so far, I am down to two models.

I split 20-25 cords a year. My most important criteria is operator ease of use. My back isn't as strong as it used to be. This is why Super Split didn't make the final cut because I don't need overwhelming speed, just great ergonomics. Timberwolf didn't make the final cut because for less $s American has a strong offering. Anything will be a big improvement to my current technique of renting a splitter for a couple of days at a time and doing marathon 12 hour sessions that really hurt my back. I'm good for 4 hours at a time.

Please keep any feedback to my final two brands. The way I am looking at them would be:

a) Split fire 3465 at $2921 + Honda 6.5hp upgrade $120 + log lift $500 + $182 shipping to Vermont = total of $3723. This model has the 4 way wedge and of course the split fire works in both directions. There is certainly a speed advantage, but I think it also adds to the ergonomics.

b) American AM25HH at $1900 + Honda 8hp upgrade $275 + 4way wedge $225 + log lift $575 + pans $185 + shipping $110 = total of $3270. A very solid machine and the log lift and pans make a great working surface.

This is a lifetime splitter so $500 one way or the other is within reason. Based on my research so far, I'm sure either machine will be very nice, just interested if one would be much better for my needs.

Thanks.

 

[chaikwa]

a) Split fire 3465... works in both directions. There is certainly a speed advantage, but I think it also adds to the ergonomics.

b) American AM25HH... A very solid machine and the log lift and pans make a great working surface.

Personally, I'd go with the Split-fire. You may not need the speed, but I like the idea of no wasted motion. Nothing says you HAVE to go fast, but splitting in both directions makes use of a stroke that would normally be a 'dead' stroke just to retract the ram. Either way is still wearing something out, loaded or not, so it might as well be a loaded stroke! Not to mention the hydraulic cylinder is protected within the housing of the square tube; protects it from the weather and any possible damage.

chaikwa.

 

[rx7145]

I think you will like the American. I do have one so I am a little biased just so you know. The American uses off the shelf parts that are easy to come by. The American has a auto return so you can get the next piece of wood ready when it is retracting. You also have full power for every stroke, the split-fire has more power one way than the other because of the rod uses surface area. And the pans are a life saver, so much better than just letting the wood fall on the ground.

Go with the American!

 

[hornett224]

i agree.

i have an american splitter and i love it.it's only the am24hh with the 5.5 honda and the 13gpm pump .but i love using it.i get pissy when i run out of wood to split.i will spend hours at night splitting when there is a full moon.

 

[JerryNycom]

I just ordered a Split-Fire cause of the speed and great feedback from people on this site.....Also the Sales Rep was very helpful

 

[walexa07]

air19,

I had settled on an American 25HH, 8hp briggs, 16gpm pump, log lift, extended hitch w/pans, 4-way wedge, etc., for around $3200. Shipping was going to be $850 or so, and was a deal killer for me. At that point I knew I wanted horizontal with a log lift, and the only other affordable model I found was the split-fire. I ordered the 3255.........Matt quoted me $2550 for the unit, plus $450 for the log lift, and $300 shipping. And about a $400 upgrade for the 4-way. I passed on the 4-way because I am already over the budget I began with.........and splitting with both strokes I think will already be fast enough for me. The 4-way wedge adds another 160 pounds to the unit from the specs on their website........and since I plan to take the unit in the woods I would prefer it be light as possible (although I don't really see the minor weight addition to be a major problem). Plus they recommend to split the large rounds in halves before using the 4-way. Matt really tried to talk me into their smallest unit (2560) for my needs, so I feel sure one step up to the 3255 should suffice. If you've got a couple weeks to wait I can give you a review once the split-fire comes in.

Between the American and the split-fire, I am sure you can't go wrong. Some complain about having to bring back pieces from the splitting pans to split again, but I don't really see this as a problem. Either splitter should have about the same production speed, possibly a little faster with the split-fire if both have 4-way splitting since you can split both ways and have to move the wood less. I do like the larger tires on the american........I think that unit will travel better, possibly much better. If I am not impressed with towing the split-fire I will add suspension to it later, and possibly an extended tongue to reduce tongue weight so I can move it around by hand easier in the woods.......I think suspension was a $175 upgrade from the factory. Matt said he has pulled a unit without suspension for a 6 hour drive with no problems, and all the units they sell to rental companies are w/o suspension with no complaints.

Have you seen the videos of the split-fire 3255 cutting a round semi-across the grain. Looks to have plenty of muscle. They also have a video of the 4-way wedge in action........looks impressive. I have read the American log lift is rated at 500 pounds, the split-fire per Matt is 350 pounds. I can't imagine exceeding either of those limits.

Well, that's about all I have to offer regarding a comparison.

As a side note, my father borrowed a swisher 34 ton h/v unit and we split some large rounds, 24"+ yesterday in the vertical mode. I was not impressed with splitting vertical, nor with the swisher unit quality. The wedge on it was nice, but that was all, it did do the job though. It appeared to be a 6" cylinder, so cycle time was a drag, the grips on the foot made the log hard to position, even just operating the lever required me to be in the bent-over position. The swisher unit was belt drive, with a disengagement device that rattled loudly unless disengaged. There was ALOT of clearance where the wedge rides on the beam, and where the wedge attached to the ram. The back side edges of the beam were gouged out from the unit getting into a bind. In the horizontal position, the wheels/axle would require you to stand in a awkward position.

Good luck with your decision and let us know what you end up getting.

Waylan

 

[JerryNycom]

Here's the video I posted on YouTube of the 3255 in action.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73XB6KzyRJs

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I'd love to see a vid of that thing splitting some big wood. Looks well made, I just can't see how you'd handle anything really big (like 30" or more) up there, and how that thin blade would split it.

 

[splittah]

I'd love to see a vid of that thing splitting some big wood. Looks well made, I just can't see how you'd handle anything really big (like 30" or more) up there, and how that thin blade would split it.

I have split rounds in EXCESS of 30" with my American splitter with no problem at all...

Getting them up there? Just like any other horizontal splitter, It's a nifty little invention called "the plank" And yes I get them up there all by myself without any problem.


and that is only if you do not have the log lift installed.

IMO a vertical splitter just means you are bending over ALL the time moving heavy rounds instead of ONCE per round.

The american splitter I have is considered a "commercial" model. They do make lesser ones for less money also, but they use the same quality steel.

Dave

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Can you get a vid of that? What's your process?

 

[2FatGuys]

A video of "The Plank"???

Come on Mark!! Place a 2x8 with one end on the splitter and the other on the ground. Roll the round up the "ramp". Split. Repeat.

LOL

That was our method prior to learning how fast it is to just rip the rounds to manageable size. We have a H/V splitter, but NEVER use it in vertical mode.

 

[Turner-N-Burner]

Air,
You probably saw my post on my new 25HH.

I wound up with that for pretty much the same reasons you're looking. Back not so healthy, and trying to spit a whole seasons worth of wood with a one/two day rental is not fun.

And I pretty much made the same decisions regarding ergonomics. Horizontal with a log lift is the only way to go, and American and split-fire are the only companies that have models in the lower cost category that they'll put a hydraulic lift on.

I had previously rented a splitfire 2290 with the 4-way and log lift, and having used both machines, I don't think you can go wrong either way.

Here's some random observations.


In speed, I'd give a slight edge to the splitfire, but it's closer than it would seem. (esp with the 4-way)

When you split with the 25HH, everything gets pushed away from you, and you pull big pieces back to resplit one at a time, leaving them on the pans, or pushing them back onto the lift. If resplitting isn't necessary, the pieces are already out of your way, and you can ready your next piece while the ram retracts. (actual cycle time is 5 seconds each way)

With the splitfire, you rotate one on the ways to resplit, and push the other three back onto the lift. you split, and then have to manually clear the pieces, before pulling another round onto the ways. There are no pans, and there is no steady stream of wood being pushed off the end of the machine. You pull *every* piece. If you're thinking about ever building or buying a conveyor - stop here. American/ T-wolf were designed for this.

You also have to pay a little more attention when you're splitting, because if a piece splits faster than you expect, it can drop off the ways right onto your legs/feet instead of going onto pans to your left.

The other gotcha is if a piece doesn't split all the way. with a fixed wedge, you just retract the ram and put a new piece in and let it push the stuck one off of the wedge. That won't always work with the splitfire, you may have a wasted stroke or two trying to ram against either stop, or have to find a piece just the right length to stick in between.

So slight edge to the splitfire in speed despite a little more fussy handling.

The 4-way design on the splitfire is really slick - drop the 4-way on, put in a pin, or knock out the pin and take the 4-way off. Takes maybe 30 seconds unless you can't find your hammer or misplace the pin.

The 4-way design on the American is brilliantly simple. just drop in on or pull it off. nothing to misplace or hunt for. 2 seconds tops. It's easy enough that I actually do it, rather than just being easy enough that I have no excuse to have not done it....

The lift on the American is really solidly built, two fork design, and seems to be capable of lifting *anything*.

The lift on the splitfire seemed less rugged, but since it was surviving the trials of rental-equipment life, it's apparently rugged enough! I actually preferred the heavy gauge sheet design. When wrestling a big mishapen round onto it, you just have to get it half on, and the lift will pretty much manage to roll it into the right position. You have to work a bit harder to get it onto *both* forks on the american, or risk it falling halfway into the gap between the forks.

The American is BIG. big wheels, big beam, big pans, long hitch. the splitfire is much more compact. Advantage American when you're towing and want to keep an eye on it. Big advantage splitfire when it's time to put your new toy away in a warm dry place!

I don't seem to get as tired (hands/arms) using the american as I did with the splitfire, but I'm also not trying to split 4 cords in a day either.

As you found out, spec for spec, the American is somewhat less expensive than the splitfire. You could even save a couple hundred more by going with a 24HH with a 6.5hp motor instead of the 25HH with the 8hp. that was my original plan, before I upsold myself.

That's about all I can think of right now... Honestly I picked the American mostly based on price, now that I have it, I have no regrets. I don't believe I would have regretted the splitfire at all either.

hope that helps,
-Dan

 

[splittah]

Air,
You probably saw my post on my new 25HH.

I wound up with that for pretty much the same reasons you're looking. Back not so healthy, and trying to spit a whole seasons worth of wood with a one/two day rental is not fun.

And I pretty much made the same decisions regarding ergonomics. Horizontal with a log lift is the only way to go, and American and split-fire are the only companies that have models in the lower cost category that they'll put a hydraulic lift on.

I had previously rented a splitfire 2290 with the 4-way and log lift, and having used both machines, I don't think you can go wrong either way.

Here's some random observations.


In speed, I'd give a slight edge to the splitfire, but it's closer than it would seem. (esp with the 4-way)

When you split with the 25HH, everything gets pushed away from you, and you pull big pieces back to resplit one at a time, leaving them on the pans, or pushing them back onto the lift. If resplitting isn't necessary, the pieces are already out of your way, and you can ready your next piece while the ram retracts. (actual cycle time is 5 seconds each way)

With the splitfire, you rotate one on the ways to resplit, and push the other three back onto the lift. you split, and then have to manually clear the pieces, before pulling another round onto the ways. There are no pans, and there is no steady stream of wood being pushed off the end of the machine. You pull *every* piece. If you're thinking about ever building or buying a conveyor - stop here. American/ T-wolf were designed for this.

You also have to pay a little more attention when you're splitting, because if a piece splits faster than you expect, it can drop off the ways right onto your legs/feet instead of going onto pans to your left.

The other gotcha is if a piece doesn't split all the way. with a fixed wedge, you just retract the ram and put a new piece in and let it push the stuck one off of the wedge. That won't always work with the splitfire, you may have a wasted stroke or two trying to ram against either stop, or have to find a piece just the right length to stick in between.

So slight edge to the splitfire in speed despite a little more fussy handling.

The 4-way design on the splitfire is really slick - drop the 4-way on, put in a pin, or knock out the pin and take the 4-way off. Takes maybe 30 seconds unless you can't find your hammer or misplace the pin.

The 4-way design on the American is brilliantly simple. just drop in on or pull it off. nothing to misplace or hunt for. 2 seconds tops. It's easy enough that I actually do it, rather than just being easy enough that I have no excuse to have not done it....

The lift on the American is really solidly built, two fork design, and seems to be capable of lifting *anything*.

The lift on the splitfire seemed less rugged, but since it was surviving the trials of rental-equipment life, it's apparently rugged enough! I actually preferred the heavy gauge sheet design. When wrestling a big mishapen round onto it, you just have to get it half on, and the lift will pretty much manage to roll it into the right position. You have to work a bit harder to get it onto *both* forks on the american, or risk it falling halfway into the gap between the forks.

The American is BIG. big wheels, big beam, big pans, long hitch. the splitfire is much more compact. Advantage American when you're towing and want to keep an eye on it. Big advantage splitfire when it's time to put your new toy away in a warm dry place!

I don't seem to get as tired (hands/arms) using the american as I did with the splitfire, but I'm also not trying to split 4 cords in a day either.

As you found out, spec for spec, the American is somewhat less expensive than the splitfire. You could even save a couple hundred more by going with a 24HH with a 6.5hp motor instead of the 25HH with the 8hp. that was my original plan, before I upsold myself.

That's about all I can think of right now... Honestly I picked the American mostly based on price, now that I have it, I have no regrets. I don't believe I would have regretted the splitfire at all either.

hope that helps,
-Dan

+1 for you

Absolutely right on about the American CLS AM25HH Splitter.

I have the same splitter WITH the pans and I love it. You are right on with the cycle times, 10 seconds total out and back. It has been my experience using it that the 10 second cycle is just perfect for speed as it works just as fast as I do. Any faster and you would be beat at the end of the day unless you had a helper. IMO

I wanted a splitter that would outlast me and I got one. (actually my wife bought it for me for Christmas.. Love that lady. )

 

[splittah]

A video of "The Plank"???

Come on Mark!! Place a 2x8 with one end on the splitter and the other on the ground. Roll the round up the "ramp". Split. Repeat.

LOL

That was our method prior to learning how fast it is to just rip the rounds to manageable size. We have a H/V splitter, but NEVER use it in vertical mode.

I had to chuckle when I saw the post also. The next time I fell a large tree here I will make sure I have a video of the entire splitting operation including the loading "process" for those that do not understand what we mean. I would be more than happy to.

 

[air19]

Great feedback

Thanks everyone for all the great feedback so far.

Walexa07 - yes I would really like to hear about your actual usage with the split-fire.

Turner-N-Burner - THANKS for taking the time to write one of the best comparisons of the actual usage differences between the two. We are thinking exactly the same way on this. For me it's about how many times I have to handle the logs and the splits, how far I have to reach each time, and how much I have to lift each time.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

A video of "The Plank"???

Come on Mark!! Place a 2x8 with one end on the splitter and the other on the ground. Roll the round up the "ramp". Split. Repeat.

LOL

That was our method prior to learning how fast it is to just rip the rounds to manageable size. We have a H/V splitter, but NEVER use it in vertical mode.

So what do you do with two halves of a 36" oak round once it's split? Hold them? Drop them? Better jump back! Or do you drop the other side and hold the one close to you? Now how do you rotate it for the next split? Just muscle it? Hope you don't drop it! Better wear steel toes! That's just a good idea anyway, I suppose, regardless of the splitter type.

Now that they're down, do you roll them back up? Uh, how do you roll a half round? Pick it up? Okay, I guess that will work. Sounds like a lot more work than working with a vertical....

As for ripping them, I guess that works better than 36" rounds up in the air. I need a bigger saw, I know, but I can split them faster than I can rip them.

I'm not bad-mouthing the splitter, just trying to understand how that works with big wood. I know the stuff I split wouldn't think much of a blade that thin. I'm sure it would go right through it with no problem, but it would leave me with a partially split round. I can't see any way it would separate it into two halves.

 

[hornett224]

i have the AM 24hh with the 5.5 hp Honda.

i wouldn't have another brand machine.i didn't get the pans originally but the next week i did.welded them on myself.excellent feature.

these splitters cannot be beat for the money.i do not think i'll ever use another brand.

 

[Turner-N-Burner]

So what do you do with two halves of a 36" oak round once it's split? Hold them? Drop them? Better jump back! Or do you drop the other side and hold the one close to you? Now how do you rotate it for the next split? Just muscle it? Hope you don't drop it! Better wear steel toes! That's just a good idea anyway, I suppose, regardless of the splitter type.

Now that they're down, do you roll them back up? Uh, how do you roll a half round? Pick it up? Okay, I guess that will work. Sounds like a lot more work than working with a vertical....

As for ripping them, I guess that works better than 36" rounds up in the air. I need a bigger saw, I know, but I can split them faster than I can rip them.

I'm not bad-mouthing the splitter, just trying to understand how that works with big wood. I know the stuff I split wouldn't think much of a blade that thin. I'm sure it would go right through it with no problem, but it would leave me with a partially split round. I can't see any way it would separate it into two halves.

I haven't split anything that big, but I'd think that the splitfire would be sweet for really big rounds. You'd just keep passing the wedge through it, rotating the billet and taking pie shaped wedges out of it. Maybe.

on some 24" plus rounds I had, If they didn't pop completely open, I'd reach over it with my pulp hook and pull it upright, then back over. That leaves the split facing up, and you can run it through again. The pans on the american catch and hold surprisingly large pieces. dropping the lift you can pull one off the pans and onto the lift, so that piece is easy to resplit. Size the side closer to you so that it's manageable to hold, and you're all set.

Without a lift you'd be screwed... but the working position of a vertical splitter is just plain evil if you've got a bad back. I've seen days I could barely tie my shoes.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I haven't split anything that big, but I'd think that the splitfire would be sweet for really big rounds. You'd just keep passing the wedge through it, rotating the billet and taking pie shaped wedges out of it. Maybe.

on some 24" plus rounds I had, If they didn't pop completely open, I'd reach over it with my pulp hook and pull it upright, then back over. That leaves the split facing up, and you can run it through again. The pans on the american catch and hold surprisingly large pieces. dropping the lift you can pull one off the pans and onto the lift, so that piece is easy to resplit. Size the side closer to you so that it's manageable to hold, and you're all set.

Sounds reasonable, but more work than a vertical, to me. And more likelyhood of dropping something. With the wide pans of the American, it makes more sense, but I don't see that on the Splitfires.

Without a lift you'd be screwed...

No doubt the lift makes all the difference in the world. I just can see rolling a 36" oak round up a plank! Yeah, it can be done, but why?

but the working position of a vertical splitter is just plain evil if you've got a bad back. I've seen days I could barely tie my shoes.

Understood. Mine's not in the best shape, but a good hand truck makes a huge difference. Might be the best $100 tool I've ever bought. If you are working wood and don't have one of these brutes, you are working too hard!

 

[splittah]

My splitter came with the pans and the american splitters also have brackets to the side of the beam that help hold up any chunks of wood. I have not had any instances where large chunks have fallen off.. so yeah don't worry about the steel toe boots, which by the way I wear anyways, it is only smart safe working practice.

From what I see I can understand why the questions posed as it appears that the speeco and tractor supply (which are the same I am told) do not have any of these so I can understand how some would not grasp how we split wood with our splitters and their accessories.

I have 0 problems with my so called "thin blade" going through and fully splitting ANY size chunk of wood. And IMO if you cannot handle moving wood on a splitter you probably shouldn't be using one.


cheers,

Dave