steering trees while felling

[Johny Utah]

I use a conventional notch but I would like somebody to explain to me how to direct a tree in a certain direction using this or another type of notch. Thnx:msp_smile:

 

[mga]

doesn't cutting more on one side or the other of the "hinge" direct the tree to where you want it to fall?

 

[Oldtimer]

doesn't cutting more on one side or the other of the "hinge" direct the tree to where you want it to fall?

That's the basic premise, yes.

The ability to direct the tree with the cut is a learned thing..hard to teach over the web.
Some species wok better than others too; A red maple can be directed more than a white pine for example.

My best advice is this: study the tree from several angles, and several varied distances. Be sure of where the tree wants to go naturally. If the direction you want it to go is no more than, say, 45* away from the natural fall line, place the notch and then..

And this is the most important part....

back-cut the tree Ssssssssssssslllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Be looking UP as you do. Watch the tree's top. You can see it move an inch, but that little bit of movement at the top won't be seen at the base. Adjust the back-cut as you need, going on the movement at the top.

Now, by cutting sloooooooooooooooooooooowly you give gravity the time it needs to effect the fall. Cut too fast, and gravity will work against you. When the tree is well on it's way, finish the cut and get moving out of the way.

Of course, a wedge never hurts in these dicey cuts.
Make sense?

 

[madhatte]

This is one of those wide-open questions that's difficult and possibly even dangerous to answer. OP, could you please ask your question in a more specific fashion so that we understand better what it is that you want to learn?

 

[Gologit]

And this is the most important part....

back-cut the tree Ssssssssssssslllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy.



Now, by cutting sloooooooooooooooooooooowly you give gravity the time it needs to effect the fall. Cut too fast, and gravity will work against you. When the tree is well on it's way, finish the cut and get moving out of the way.


Make sense?

No, not really. As a matter of fact, cutting "slooooooooooooowly" when you're backing one up is probably the worst piece of advice I've ever heard. The more time you spend in the back cut the greater the chance that the tree will barber chair on you, either from wind or natural lean. If you're quite a ways into the cut and sawing slowly the tree can slab out or go sideways on you. You don't want to race through every tree like a maniac speed demon but cutting too slow in the back cut is a recipe for disaster.

And how does gravity "work against you" if you cut too fast? I really need an explanation on that one.

The rest of your post wasn't too bad, though.

 

[Oldtimer]

First, ya need to know enough about chopping to know when the potential is there for a barberchair. That's someting only time and trial will provide.

Second, cutting slow allows the tree the time it needs to start in the right direction. If you cut it too fast, then the natural lean will take it before it goes past the point of no return in the direction you want it to go.

I was given this advice by a man who's cut more wood in Maine and NH than any three other men you care to name. And damned if he didn't show me he could do what I thought was impossible with a tree. Old cutter had to drag the saw behind him, he was too frail to carry it. But he dumped enough to keep the skidder busy.

This is turning into another classic steep slope vs east coast thing, and I want to avoid that.

 

[floyd]

Much safer if one takes the time before cutting to insure the tree will fall where one wants it.

Easy to get stuck on driving it onto the ground.

You know what? Sometimes trees bounce when they hit. Better to be somewhere on your escape route before the tree hits. This may sound flippant, it is not meant to be.

 

[rwoods]

OT,

I for one tire easily on regional upmanship, excepting of course sparring in good fun. But I would wager that an experienced WC logger and an experienced EC logger (or for that matter, steep vs flat, hardwood vs softwood) would come to terms and respect each others methods and discover much more in common than in difference if they were to meet face to face, chainsaws in hand on their respective turfs. With that statement, I don't think the reaction you are getting is driven by a WC/EC rivalry.

Not that you don't know, but it bears stating that without a shared real world context, words often leave the wrong impression. That is one of the major problems/dangers of seeking and giving falling advice via written posts. Now what was that old proverb about pictures and words? The same can be said about hands on demonstration and pictures. I don't know for sure how slow you meant but I took it to mean slow enough to read the fall and make necessary adjustments. Watching many falling videos where the faller seems to be doing a lot of saw/stop/look has prompted me as a firewood hack to be much more cautious taking time to judge what the tree is doing rather than simply putting it on the ground as quick as possible. I don't know if the saw/stop/look approach is cutting "slowly" but I believe it is done for many of the same reasons you suggested for cutting slowly. Unfortunately, we can't assume that everyone reading this thread will have enough experience to judge the appropriate speed a cut should take. There are probably many novices that follow instructional posts and not knowing any better will misunderstand well intended advice and get hurt.

Ron

 

[Oldtimer]

OT,

I for one tire easily on regional upmanship, excepting of course sparring in good fun. But I would wager that an experienced WC logger and an experienced EC logger (or for that matter, steep vs flat, hardwood vs softwood) would come to terms and respect each others methods and discover much more in common than in difference if they were to meet face to face, chainsaws in hand on their respective turfs. With that statement, I don't think the reaction you are getting is driven by a WC/EC rivalry.

Not that you don't know, but it bears stating that without a shared real world context, words often leave the wrong impression. That is one of the major problems/dangers of seeking and giving falling advice via written posts. Now what was that old proverb about pictures and words? The same can be said about hands on demonstration and pictures. I don't know for sure how slow you meant but I took it to mean slow enough to read the fall and make necessary adjustments. Watching many falling videos where the faller seems to be doing a lot of saw/stop/look has prompted me as a firewood hack to be much more cautious taking time to judge what the tree is doing rather than simply putting it on the ground as quick as possible. I don't know if the saw/stop/look approach is cutting "slowly" but I believe it is done for many of the same reasons you suggested for cutting slowly. Unfortunately, we can't assume that everyone reading this thread will have enough experience to judge the appropriate speed a cut should take. There are probably many novices that follow instructional posts and not knowing any better will misunderstand well intended advice and get hurt.

Ron

You are right, and you got the idea I wanted to convey.

 

[OlympicYJ]

I was given this advice by a man who's cut more wood in Maine and NH than any three other men you care to name. And damned if he didn't show me he could do what I thought was impossible with a tree. Old cutter had to drag the saw behind him, he was too frail to carry it. But he dumped enough to keep the skidder busy.

This is turning into another classic steep slope vs east coast thing, and I want to avoid that.

Oltimer I'm not criticizing your advice and I'm not advocating it either. I'm remaining completely neutral on that part. Nor am I saying West Coast is better than East Coast.

It seems to me by making the statement that you were given the advice "by a man who's cut more wood in Maine and NH than any three other men you care to name" you are contradicting your stated desire to avoid the West Coast-East Coast weiner shakin match. You're trying to put Gologit in the shade. Hes a Pro and You are a supposed to be a Pro... Statements like this start the East Vs West thing.

There are competent fallers on the E. Coast and there are competent ones on the W. Coast. Just say a competant faller told you this and leave it at that.

 

[mga]

That's the basic premise, yes.

The ability to direct the tree with the cut is a learned thing..hard to teach over the web.
Some species wok better than others too; A red maple can be directed more than a white pine for example.

My best advice is this: study the tree from several angles, and several varied distances. Be sure of where the tree wants to go naturally. If the direction you want it to go is no more than, say, 45* away from the natural fall line, place the notch and then..

And this is the most important part....

back-cut the tree Ssssssssssssslllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Be looking UP as you do. Watch the tree's top. You can see it move an inch, but that little bit of movement at the top won't be seen at the base. Adjust the back-cut as you need, going on the movement at the top.

Now, by cutting sloooooooooooooooooooooowly you give gravity the time it needs to effect the fall. Cut too fast, and gravity will work against you. When the tree is well on it's way, finish the cut and get moving out of the way.

Of course, a wedge never hurts in these dicey cuts.
Make sense?

i was going to add that as well, but deleted it from my post because the OP didn't offer much information. a tall pine, for example is much easier to control, than a tree that has many branches hanging out.

i agree 100% that studying the tree is a must before dropping it. i've gone up and removed heavy limbs just to "balance" it out before dropping it to ensure it will at least fall in the general direction i want it to.

if the OP'ster is thinking of dropping a tree near a house or other structure, i would recommend dropping as many limbs as possible first. i've seen a few disasters because people thought they could just cut it and let it fall.

but, yea, more info is needed and i hope people understand that every tree is different.

 

[Gologit]

First, ya need to know enough about chopping to know when the potential is there for a barberchair. That's someting only time and trial will provide.

Second, cutting slow allows the tree the time it needs to start in the right direction. If you cut it too fast, then the natural lean will take it before it goes past the point of no return in the direction you want it to go.

I was given this advice by a man who's cut more wood in Maine and NH than any three other men you care to name. And damned if he didn't show me he could do what I thought was impossible with a tree. Old cutter had to drag the saw behind him, he was too frail to carry it. But he dumped enough to keep the skidder busy.

This is turning into another classic steep slope vs east coast thing, and I want to avoid that.

Yup, let's avoid the same old argument we've been having for a couple of years now. I don't know about you but I'm tired of it.

People tend to use their own experience as a yard stick for what to do or not to do. If I dawdled through the back cut in a big fir or cedar the results would probably be ugly...in fact I can just about guarantee it. My reply to your post was based on my kind of timber and my kind of experience with it. It was an accurate response but maybe it wasn't entirely fair.

Maybe on the stuff you cut you can get away with a technique like you describe. I hope so. The thing we both need to remember is that newbies read our posts and, not knowing any better, take what we say as gospel. That's flattering...but it's also a real bad idea. You and I both know that every tree is different, the wind is different, the ground is different, and every faller has his own bag of tricks to deal with working in an environment that can change by the minute. A newbie usually wants some kind of iron clad guarantee that "if I do this the tree will do exactly what I want it to do." We know better than that. We can give some basic tips and a few of the techniques but when it comes right down to it I don't think we can teach anybody how to be a good faller by using a computer. I don't think I'd want to try.

I've packed out two falling partners. Neither one lived long enough to tell us what happened.
I've taught guys to fall and the only ones that got killed were in car wrecks or bar room scrapes. I'd like to keep it that way. I'm not dragging my saw along behind me yet, like your friend, but some days it seems mighty inviting.

 

[slowp]

To steer a tree in a proper direction, park a brand new pickup or car in the direction you want the tree to go. Make sure it is where the tree can hit it. There is a tractor beam that works on trees when this is done. Sometimes a building or fence will also do. Such things seem to have magnetic properties.

 

[madhatte]

The thing we both need to remember is that newbies read our posts and, not knowing any better, take what we say as gospel. That's flattering...but it's also a real bad idea.

That's exactly what I was getting at. I don't want to offer well-intentioned but dangerous advice if I can avoid it. If I can concisely answer a specific question, I will, but I'm not gonna offer up a two-paragraph primer on how to beat gravity in three easy steps. No such thing exists.

 

[Gologit]

To steer a tree in a proper direction, park a brand new pickup or car in the direction you want the tree to go. Make sure it is where the tree can hit it. There is a tractor beam that works on trees when this is done. Sometimes a building or fence will also do. Such things seem to have magnetic properties.

Yup. When you go to the woods, park where the fallers park. If they move their rig....move yours too. A faller never drops one on his own pickup. The boss's pickup, yes. The new crummy, sure. The water truck, always. A forester's pickup, prime target. But his own? Never.

 

[paccity]

i think there's to much falling advice given on the internets . hands on instruction should be the only way in my book. you can explain something to some one a hundred times and they won't get it. show them a few times then the lite goes on. then again maybe not. thats when you steer them to do something else. and the wc / ec thing ' bring it on. it's fun.

 

[Rounder]

Given that the OP is on my ignore list, I'm not sure of the nature of this whole deal, but given the nature of the OP's previous posts and the responses garnered from this one.......just looks like another pot stir from the puke.

 

[Johny Utah]

This is one of those wide-open questions that's difficult and possibly even dangerous to answer. OP, could you please ask your question in a more specific fashion so that we understand better what it is that you want to learn?

Say I want the tree to fall more left then right, how do I use my back cut to do this. If I leave a thicker hinge on one side which way does that allow the tree to fall first. Does it fall in the direction of the thicker hinge area or does it fall towards the thinner area of the hinge. (pretending this is a tree with no lean just for illustration purposes) Most trees I cut are not thick enough to wedge so I have to influence it to fall hopefully the right way with proper cutting technique. Hope this is a better description for you guys to help me out. Thanks everybody much appreciated.:msp_thumbup:

 

[paccity]

i should go out and nail a set bike handlebars to a tree to show him how to steer a tree.

 

[lmbrman]

pull the tree with/to the thicker side of the hinge

we call it a swing