Stihl M-Tronic problems

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Oh and I also deleted the de-compression button on my Auto-Tune chainsaws, as I wasn't using them and when I flooded one once, it showed excess oil leaking at the button threads. The grommet around the now vertical button would ride up and make it hard to tell if it had been pushed, and didn't seem to help start it that much anyway. My very good Husqy dealer told me Auto-Tune starts easier if you flip the choke on and immediately back off again, even when the saw is already warm. That plus using the primer bulb plus the decompression button and the known vapor-lock potential made it all more complex than necessary, I forgot the sequence I needed on a warm day and I flooded one. They seemed easier to pull over without the de-compression button than non Auto-Tune XPs I have run previously and I haven't missed it.

But the Stihl saw I am having trouble with doesn't have one of those buttons, though it does have their Easy Start system of some sort, or whatever they call it, I'm sure with a ™. It starts real easy but maybe there is some sort of automatic decompression involved, don't know. I didn't expect to have much trouble with a saw in it's 4th model year of use.
 
Oh and I also deleted the de-compression button on my Auto-Tune chainsaws, as I wasn't using them and when I flooded one once, it showed excess oil leaking at the button threads. The grommet around the now vertical button would ride up and make it hard to tell if it had been pushed, and didn't seem to help start it that much anyway. My very good Husqy dealer told me Auto-Tune starts easier if you flip the choke on and immediately back off again, even when the saw is already warm. That plus using the primer bulb plus the decompression button and the known vapor-lock potential made it all more complex than necessary, I forgot the sequence I needed on a warm day and I flooded one. They seemed easier to pull over without the de-compression button than non Auto-Tune XPs I have run previously and I haven't missed it.

But the Stihl saw I am having trouble with doesn't have one of those buttons, though it does have their Easy Start system of some sort, or whatever they call it, I'm sure with a [emoji769]. It starts real easy but maybe there is some sort of automatic decompression involved, don't know. I didn't expect to have much trouble with a saw in it's 4th model year of use.

What model of Stihl?


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Anyone else out there having problems with their M-Tronic carbs?
My 201 t-c recently started acting up. At idle the chain would still be spinning quite quickly, and nothing I could do would remedy the issue. I brought my saw into the dealership on December 12th, and they still haven't gotten an answer out of Stihl. Pretty inconvenient considering it is my only top handle, and I'm a climber.

Sorry for the delay. I had the occasion to ask my Stihl dealership. The first thing they asked me is "Did he take it to a dealership qualified to work on M-tronic?". Apparently, at least here, not all Stihl dealership are. :dumb:

Having said that they told me doing a diagnosis by "word of mouth" is extremely hard, but it sounds like a problem caused by either the carburetor or the solenoid governing it. Again, a repair technician trained to deal with M-Tronic would be able to quickly find which one is the problem.
 
No altitude sensor. It measures RPM only and constantly adjusts it, always adjusting for optimal tune. Altitude, weather, fuel, etc, all affect the tune of a saw. It doesn't measure all those inputs. It measures the affect they have on RPM and adjusts the tune accordingly.

That is how I understand it as well.

If it actually is the MT that makes the problems, and it doesn't just get the blame for it (happens), I understand it is likely an issue with some solenoid, that isn't working right? There also is a chance that the true issue is with the carb, and not with the MT.
 
Sorry for the delay. I had the occasion to ask my Stihl dealership. The first thing they asked me is "Did he take it to a dealership qualified to work on M-tronic?". Apparently, at least here, not all Stihl dealership are. :dumb:

Having said that they told me doing a diagnosis by "word of mouth" is extremely hard, but it sounds like a problem caused by either the carburetor or the solenoid governing it. Again, a repair technician trained to deal with M-Tronic would be able to quickly find which one is the problem.

Thanks for getting back to me. The shop I took it to was not equipped to service it properly. I asked when I dropped it off, and was told they were.... needless to say, I won't be going back after this nightmare ends.
Had another member of the forum dm me and suggest they try replacing the solenoid with one from another saw off the showroom floor if they had one to see if that fixed the issue. They are ordering in the part now, and we'll see how it all goes.


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You need to tell someone about that dumbass dealer, if he had your saw and you depend on it for a living, my friend you are a VERY patient man!!!!!


He should have told you he has no clue orngave you another saw!!!!!

PATHETIC!!!!!
 
I've been a Stihl tech for 34 years. I came into the industry when 031's and 056's were the hot saws. Been there, done that. Mtronic is an excellent engine management system within the limits of its capabilities. What nobody here has addressed is the original issue "the engine runs too fast at idle". Let's put Mtronic aside for a few moments and think about how a competent tech would approach this problem on a non Mtronic saw.
Stihl has a wonderful diagnostic flow chart called "Stihl engine checklist" or something like that. Its simple, but long. Most techs don't bother with it until all their guessing leads them nowhere in solving a problem. I use it when the answer isn't quick and obvious, and it has never let me down. Again. we're pretending this is a standard carbureted saw with a high idle. Most likely, we'd all try adjusting the idle speed screw to correct the problem. I would. But what if that didn't work? Then it gets interesting. We need to systematically look at all aspects of the saw to determine the problem. The diagnostic chart will take us through the fuel system, controls, ignition, exhaust, etc. Lets say that all these items turn out to be ok. The test that will probably be most telling is a pressure and vacuum test of the crankcase. Even a small air leak will cause a saw to run erratically or not at all. High idle could easily be explained by a leak at a gasket, seal, impulse line, or intake boot. If there's a leak, fix it and re-test the crankcase. Now yo can properly set the mixtures and RPM so the saw will run properly.
Now lets go back to an Mtronic saw. Everything thats critical for a carbureted saw to run properly ALSO APPLIES to Mtronic. If you have an obstructed fuel filter or a crankcase air leak, that Mtronic saw won't work properly. Its critical to be sure there are no mechanical problems prior to blaming Mtronic.
Has anyone checked the mechanical parts of this saw, or did they just skip all that because "they knew" its an Mtronic problem???? Mtronic isn't perfect, but it is a simple, generally solid system. What it can't do is magically retune a saw that has an air leak or other mechanical problem. Once all mechanical possibilities are ruled out, only then does a competent tech look at the engine management system.
Hook it up to the laptop and run SDS software. Look at the engine management data- number of starts, total hours of operation, and most importantly- the fuel numbers at idle and WOT. If Mtronic is screwed up, the data and solenoid tests will tell you. If its compensating for an air leak or other mechanical problem, the mixture data will be crazy rich. Mtronic is remarkably simple and usually works perfectly. Sure, there are issues with very early controllers whose firmware was set so that the saw would run too lean, but Stihl has addressed those issues with newer controllers.
Mtronic is electronically simple, but dependant on lots of mechanical things to work properly. A leaking inlet needle in the throttle body will cause the same problems on an Mtronic saw as on a standard carbureted saw. Crappy fuel still doesn't burn well in an Mtronic saw. Water doesn't burn at all. Look at all the simple, normal reasons for a particular issue before jumping to the possibly erroneous conclusion that Mtronic is to blame. My time is valuable, and so too is yours- why waste it guessing. Approach a problem with a systematic plan and rule out problems rather that rule them in. Think about that for a few seconds. Those few seconds of thought may save you hours of frustration,
 
I've been a Stihl tech for 34 years. I came into the industry when 031's and 056's were the hot saws. Been there, done that. Mtronic is an excellent engine management system within the limits of its capabilities. What nobody here has addressed is the original issue "the engine runs too fast at idle". Let's put Mtronic aside for a few moments and think about how a competent tech would approach this problem on a non Mtronic saw.
Stihl has a wonderful diagnostic flow chart called "Stihl engine checklist" or something like that. Its simple, but long. Most techs don't bother with it until all their guessing leads them nowhere in solving a problem. I use it when the answer isn't quick and obvious, and it has never let me down. Again. we're pretending this is a standard carbureted saw with a high idle. Most likely, we'd all try adjusting the idle speed screw to correct the problem. I would. But what if that didn't work? Then it gets interesting. We need to systematically look at all aspects of the saw to determine the problem. The diagnostic chart will take us through the fuel system, controls, ignition, exhaust, etc. Lets say that all these items turn out to be ok. The test that will probably be most telling is a pressure and vacuum test of the crankcase. Even a small air leak will cause a saw to run erratically or not at all. High idle could easily be explained by a leak at a gasket, seal, impulse line, or intake boot. If there's a leak, fix it and re-test the crankcase. Now yo can properly set the mixtures and RPM so the saw will run properly.
Now lets go back to an Mtronic saw. Everything thats critical for a carbureted saw to run properly ALSO APPLIES to Mtronic. If you have an obstructed fuel filter or a crankcase air leak, that Mtronic saw won't work properly. Its critical to be sure there are no mechanical problems prior to blaming Mtronic.
Has anyone checked the mechanical parts of this saw, or did they just skip all that because "they knew" its an Mtronic problem???? Mtronic isn't perfect, but it is a simple, generally solid system. What it can't do is magically retune a saw that has an air leak or other mechanical problem. Once all mechanical possibilities are ruled out, only then does a competent tech look at the engine management system.
Hook it up to the laptop and run SDS software. Look at the engine management data- number of starts, total hours of operation, and most importantly- the fuel numbers at idle and WOT. If Mtronic is screwed up, the data and solenoid tests will tell you. If its compensating for an air leak or other mechanical problem, the mixture data will be crazy rich. Mtronic is remarkably simple and usually works perfectly. Sure, there are issues with very early controllers whose firmware was set so that the saw would run too lean, but Stihl has addressed those issues with newer controllers.
Mtronic is electronically simple, but dependant on lots of mechanical things to work properly. A leaking inlet needle in the throttle body will cause the same problems on an Mtronic saw as on a standard carbureted saw. Crappy fuel still doesn't burn well in an Mtronic saw. Water doesn't burn at all. Look at all the simple, normal reasons for a particular issue before jumping to the possibly erroneous conclusion that Mtronic is to blame. My time is valuable, and so too is yours- why waste it guessing. Approach a problem with a systematic plan and rule out problems rather that rule them in. Think about that for a few seconds. Those few seconds of thought may save you hours of frustration,

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. The shop was unable to diagnose the issue on their own. Hopefully they followed the flow chart and eliminated all other potential fail points before pointing the finger at m-tronic. They told me they did. Where we are at now, is at suggestion from another forum member to swap out the solenoid and see if that fixes the issue.


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You need to tell someone about that dumbass dealer, if he had your saw and you depend on it for a living, my friend you are a VERY patient man!!!!!


He should have told you he has no clue orngave you another saw!!!!!

PATHETIC!!!!!

Oh you can bet their name is as good as ****. They know that saw is my main *****, and could not even offer me a loaner. When I dropped it off, I asked if they were fluent in M-Tronic and was assured their tech could handle anything. Fed another load of ******** from a shop just looking to make a buck. I've contacted the district manager for Stihl, and am hoping he'll be able to either light a fire under their asses or get me going with something else.


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Arrrgh!
Parts changers.... Darwin said inferior species would die out, but he's wrong about these "geniuses". They are the Zombies of the repair world.
Solenoid valves are easy to test even if you don't have Stihl Diagnostic Software (SDS) on your computer. A solenoid valve is cheap and easy to replace, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to test it without even removing the carburetor? Well, here's how I do it if I suspect a leaking solenoid valve.
I bought a 2xAA battery holder from Ebay. I got a Stihl wiring harness adaptor that plugs into the diagnostic port (sorry, I don't remember the part number, but it was about $8.00). Connect them together- polarity doesn't matter, and install 2 good batteries. Drain the fuel from the saw and remove the fuel filter from the fuel hose. Plug the battery pack into the saw's diagnostic port. Stihl used to recommend a 9V battery for this, but it occasionally fried controllers. Connect your vacuum/pressure pump to the fuel hose and pressurize it to about 5 PSI (.4 bar). The pressure reading should remain constant. This tells you that the solenoid valve is holding against the fuel pressure.
Next, you need to determine if its opening when it needs to. Get a 4" piece of 0.080" string trimmer line and bend an "L" shape at one end. The bent section should be about 1/3" long. heat the bend with a lighter to keep it bent when it cools. Now, poke this piece of trimmer line into the compensation port behind the air filter to depress the metering diaphragm in the carb. Watch the pressure gauge when you do this- it should drop as the solenoid valve opens and passes fuel. Remove the trimmer line and be sure it still holds pressure.
This quick test takes me about a minute to do and is a great way to confirm that the SDS is really telling me the truth. Mtronic isn't "rocket surgery" as a friend in NH calls it. This stuff is really simple and we need to adapt and learn. Otherwise, the bus leaves without us.
 
Everytime Stihldoc opens his mouth really good info falls out. A couple of good posts that debug the myth that MT systems were not designed by witches attempting to cause us pain.

I am pretty sure I've smelled sulfur and heard somebody saying "Hail Satan!" in a muffled voice in the room where I keep my MS362CM. :laugh:
 
Anyone else out there having problems with their M-Tronic carbs?
My 201 t-c recently started acting up. At idle the chain would still be spinning quite quickly, and nothing I could do would remedy the issue. I brought my saw into the dealership on December 12th, and they still haven't gotten an answer out of Stihl. Pretty inconvenient considering it is my only top handle, and I'm a climber.


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What rpm was it at idle? Anyone look at the clutch area?
 
What rpm was it at idle? Anyone look at the clutch area?

I'm not sure the exact rpm. It was high enough that the chain was driven at a steady pace. I took part and cleaned the clutch. Still waiting on the boneheads at the shop to get back to me.


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