Stumpgrinding wavier

[Don't-B-Stumped]

here in south fl. its the law that you call 811 before any grinding job at any depth. if you touch the dirt they consider you an excavator. the fine is $250.00 or more for not getting the marks. it takes up to 48 hrs but i guess its better than having to call your insurance agent and make a claim. here we have water,power,cable tv,phone, rarely gas.

 

[Frank Boyer]

The high pressure gas line that ruptured in San Bruno, CA is an extreme example of why you get a locate first. A sewer line was relpaced in the spot that blew a couple of years ago. A D8 hit a high pressure gas line in Cupetino, CA about 15 years ago and the blast/fire ball fried the operator before he could get off the tractor. The gas ignites/explodes when it hits the air.

 

[Mowingman]

Not true. The gas can flow out into the air for hours, or days without igniting. It takes an ignition source like a spark or open flame to ignite it.
I have a friend who owned a backhoe business for years. He worked mainly on utility installation projects, and, has hit many gas lines with his backhoe over the years. He would IMMEDIATLY shut down the machine, then calmly wait for the gas company to shut off the flow.
Of course,the longer the gas flows out into the air, the greater the chance of it spreading out, and coming into contact with a source of ignition.
If the gas gets pulled into the running engine, then an explosion can occur almost immediatly. Same thing if the digging machine creats a spark when rupturing the gas line.
Jeff

QUOTE=Frank Boyer;2445967]The gas ignites/explodes when it hits the air.[/QUOTE]

 

[Frank Boyer]

Low pressure gas is very different than high pressure gas. If you hit low pressure gas remove all sources of ignition and cover with a wet towel/rag/blanket. High pressure gas will self ignite and go boom.

Not true. The gas can flow out into the air for hours, or days without igniting. It takes an ignition source like a spark or open flame to ignite it.
I have a friend who owned a backhoe business for years. He worked mainly on utility installation projects, and, has hit many gas lines with his backhoe over the years. He would IMMEDIATLY shut down the machine, then calmly wait for the gas company to shut off the flow.
Of course,the longer the gas flows out into the air, the greater the chance of it spreading out, and coming into contact with a source of ignition.
If the gas gets pulled into the running engine, then an explosion can occur almost immediatly. Same thing if the digging machine creats a spark when rupturing the gas line.
Jeff

QUOTE=Frank Boyer;2445967]The gas ignites/explodes when it hits the air.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Mowingman]

We are not talking about high pressure gas lines here. We are talking about the lines you wold normally encounter while grinding a stump. I have never seen a high pressure gas line buried in the top 24" of a lawn.
Jeff

 

[Frank Boyer]

Get your locate first. Some of these lines have been in for 50 plus years and right of ways, lot lines, and finish grades have changed dramatically. What used to be an open field is now suburbia. That 80 acre ranch hillside that I was working on, is now 2-5 acre ranchetts with lawns. The 30" high pressure line that blew in San Bruno was less than 3' deep in the suburbs.
I had a friend that pulled a fence post straight out with the wench on his drill rig. The concrete in the bottom brought out a fiber optic line with it. Get a locate first.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I had a friend that pulled a fence post straight out with the wench on his drill rig.

Okay, okay, let's get this straight:



This is a wench:

Nice, one, too!




THIS is a winch!

Everybody clear on the difference? Uh, if you're not, I don't know what to say, except, uh, keep your distance, okay?

 

[Frank Boyer]

Would this be the plurl of wench?

 

[Steve-Maine]

Stump grinding Wavier.

Here in Maine we are required to call DIG SAFE for any digging, even a mail box post. There is no charge. I never grind stumps without calling them. They both public and private properties. My insurance policy doesn't cover illegal operations. My laywer explained that grinding without notify DIG SAFE is an illegal act and no insurance coverage. You might not think anything is buried but never know. Either Call Dig Safe or don't grind stumps.

 

[Hoosier]

Im sorry but I just cant accept that the locate service will not go onto private property? That makes no sense, why have a locate company then...for guys that dig in the highway median?

 

[Don't-B-Stumped]

they go on private property here. how else are they going to locate? every stump we do must be checked. at first it seemed like a pita but you get used to the process and its no big deal. plus you don't have to worry about getting fined for not doing it or worse paying for some potentially big damage.
i gotta admit i have cut phone and cable lines because you never know where they run those things and they're only just below the grass so you're gonna get them even doing a shallow grind.

 

[stump-dude]

i did a job about 3 years ago for $150 and ended up hitting a gas main that was 4" under the ground just in front of the stump, luckily my machine is remote controlled because as i saw the tree next to the stump blowing in the gas wind i ran for my life and then slowly drove my machine out of the danger, luckily no ignition. called 911 and had the fire department block off all the roads surrounding the property. the customer was inside, i called her right after i got off the phone with 911 and let her know what was going on, she was really worried because she could smell the gas inside her house, but couldnt get outside... had to pay to get everything repaired which cost aprox $1700. learnt my lesson and bought a rigid m-scope, now i use that as a side source of income as i trace gas, water, electrical lines for excavation companies, plumbers, etc. to get set up with the underground utility locating equip cost about $2500 but its a great competitive advantage when advertising that you look for utilities where others might not.

 

[Don't-B-Stumped]

you are a very lucky dude that there wasn't a spark. very few gas lines here in south florida. although some people have propane tanks buried in their yards to service pool heaters. as i said before i like the idea of calling the no cuts people now.

 

[Curbside]

Wow 4" sounds pretty close to negligence on the part of the gas company unless someone regraded the area. A garden roto-tiller would strike the pipe.

 

[Frank Boyer]

Most areas get regradded. The roses over the gas lines, fiber optic lines, phone lines, electric lines, etc all look just like the roses with nothing under them. Get a locate!!!

 

[sawkiller]

We hit a pressure gas line in mechanicsburg Indiana about 12 years ago when i did road construction. It was missed in the locates and only 4" below the soil. Luckily I had pictures before the accident and the paint for the gas line was still on the ground 10' from where we were digging. No explosion and it was a 450 psi line. You could hear the wistling for about a half a mile and everyone came out to see what the noise was and were promptly evacuated.

So always get pics and most locates are only gauranteed to within 3' or more if you are close find out what they gaurantee.

 

[lmcc4088]

Wire, cable and water line locating.

Stumpgrinding, concerning locating electrical wiring, TV cables, water lines, irrigation lines, there is a simple solution, I've used for 10 years, and it;s fool proof.
I use wire devining rods, home made, here's how:

For locating water lines, water supply, irrigation, ect. Take a steel coat hanger, straighten, cut to an 18 inch overall straight length, bend at a 90 degree angle in the center, 9 inches each leg. Make two of these. Hold at waist level, with wires held loosy in each hand about 8 inches apart, with the forward pointing wires at a horizonal position. The wires should be shaped like a "L". Hold the verticle ,"handles", loosy, allowing the wires to pivot easily.
Walk slowly across the ground around the stump to be ground. The horizonal wires, pointing directly forward will cross like an X when you cross a water line, any water line, supply or irrigation. You can try this anywhere, mabe in your own yard, practice makes perfect. It has never failed me in 10 years.

To locate electrical , or underground cables, use brazing rods, with flux removed, I use a wire brush on a bench grinder for this, cut these at 20 inches, bend at a 90 degree bend, with bend at 8 and 12 inch, using the 8 inch legs for horizonal forward pointers, held 8 inches apart. They will cross when they cross a wire of any kind.
This method will work, never fails, and at times when commercial locating services have markedthe utility runs, I find their mistakes, or wrong markings, so I double check them with my system, which never is wrong, try this at home, practice makes perfect, haven't hit anything in years, Oh!, the steel water line finder,( steel coat hanger), will find PVC also.

 

[dts99]

just some insparation to call whoever it takes to find whats below the ground, i worked for the city and a guy cliped a fiber optics going down a pole with a grader, i heard it was like $7000 parts $26,000 labor, and nobody even got hurt

 

[uglydukwling]

It sounds like I should call for a locate before I plow my fields (especially if I'm using a subsoiler).

Actually, that's not so far-fetched. When I moved in, about 40 years ago, The gas meter was at the property line and the pipe to the house ran across the surface of the front lawn. It wasn't bright yellow, just rusty old steel pipe. I don't know how long it had been there. It was visible then, but not any more. I planted trees on the lawn and stopped mowing, and grass and leaves have built up enough new soil to hide it. Fortunately it isn't in use any more. A few years ago, the gas company decided to relocate the gas meters from the property line to the front wall of the houses. The new gas line is buried, but the foreman wasn't surprised at the location of the old one. Apparently it was common in the old days to lay them on the surface.

There are also gas wells in the area. Most of them are depleted and abandoned, but there's deeper exploration going on now so there may be more in the future. In one of my fencerows, there are remnants of a steel pipe from an old well leading to the collector pipe that runs along the road. It also runs along the surface, except where it has been covered by tree roots, soil, etc. I don't know how deep, if at all, it was buried in the field from the well to the fencerow.

There was an old unmarked, unrecorded well in a corner of a field near here where someone decided to build a house. It had been cut off deep enough so the excavator didn't hit it but after the house was built, gas was detected in it. The outcome of the litigation was that the gas company bought the house and moved it off-site. I'm not sure what compensation the owner got for not being able to build. Now, where there used to be a house, there's a neat little fenced enclosure with a wellhead in it.

 

[NCgrinder]

Here's my $0.02 worth of info.. I always get the homeowner to call 811/ULOCO/whatever . That way when there's some stranger out in his yard spraying yellow/red/blue all over his beloved grass, they already know whats going on.. I had a customer call me raisin' hell after I had called for a locate on his property..Guess he thought they could locate and not paint the ground!!!
So now ,when I estimate the job , I have them call ...but ,I learned to call them back and find out the progress...seems a lot of them "forgot " to call...
All this slows things down ,but you're the one ultimately responsible if you cut a utility