tails: to split or not?

[rmihalek]

I was wondering what the group thought of a beginner going right to the split tail system for DdRT? I like the appeal of being able to lanyard-in and then re-direct around a limb. Overall, it doesn't seem too complicated, but then again, I have a total of about 30 minutes on rope, so maybe I'm over-looking something.

 

[moss]

The problem for a beginner going right to a split-tail is that you're adding more components to your system and therefore reducing overall safety. It's not a huge difference in configuration but it would make sense for you to have less variables when you're doing your pre-climb safety check and when you're in the tree. After you've done some hours on a traditional system you'll have a better idea why you're going to split-tail beyond your sound but still theoretical reason.

To elaborate, sooner or later you're going to get into a stressed situation in the tree. When your adrenaline fires up and you're trying to quickly solve a difficult problem you'll have less chance of causing yourself a problem with a more straighforward setup. I know it's not rocket science but once you're in the tree things can happen and you want to be very fluent in managing your gear when it does.
-moss

 

[rmihalek]

I'm thinking what I can do first is to get a rope with a spliced eye on one end. I'd start off with the traditional DdRT system using the non-spliced end of the rope. Then, once I want try split tail, all I need to do is buy the split tail, switch my rope around so I can clip the spliced eye to my saddle, and get an extra 'biner to hold the split tail. I'll need a lanyard regardless of the style.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

If you understand and are familiar with the traditional and split tail system it makes sense to try both. Use them on the ground and in very controlled situations first.

You don't need to buy anything special for a split tail. Just use a short piece of climbing rope and tie it to a biner using a scaffold hitch or other cinching hitch. No need to spend extra money on the splice for a piece of kit that is meant to wear out.

 

[rmihalek]

Hi Tom,

When you mentioned the scaffold hitch I said "huh?" So I did what any warm blooded biped does these days and searched google. I found this cool website with a lot of interesting knots.

http://www.layhands.com/knots/Knots_SingleLoops.htm#DoubleDragon

Scroll down a bit to see this cool knot called a double dragon. It's looks great for putting a loop on the end of a rope.

The scaffold hitch is in another section of the website.

The only reason I considered getting a dedicated split tail is that I have almost zero equipment. I guess if I get a 200 foot section of rope, I could cut four or five feet off the end and knot-up a split tail from that.

 

[woodchux]

Great website... Very informative

 

[woodchux]

Tie up your own split tails and spend that saved money on other gear like biners or something else.

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

split, or not?

rmi, you haven't mentioned anything out of wack. tom was right on when he suggested hanging from both traditional and split-tail in a controlled environment...for me it was a big eye-hook in a stud in my living room ceiling. it sounds like you have a fundamental book understanding of the two very similar systems. i spent my first months climbing traditional and spikeless...the first time up with a split-tail i realized the added mobility, which imo makes for a safer climb when you're not wasting energy tying and untying knots to get around the tree. for removals spikes obviously add mobility, still blows me away, but i was glad i spent a year climbing without them first...forces you to learn the ropes of ropes. finally, i fully agree with saving money on that split-tail and just cut some rope...you should be using that money towards your steel-core flip-line if you're not already in one.

safe climbing

 

[Sizzle-Chest]

many good points man, however, i would advize against using a wire core lanyard for rec climbing. that was one of the first pieces of gear i bought, thinking that i would play it extra safe. turns out that they are pretty ackward, heavy and bulky IMO. they make sense when cutting, but during a rec climb its pretty unlikely that some power tool will find its way into your lanyard. just make one out of some line and call er good!

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

to split...or not?

ohhh, i guess i didn't realize he was gearing up for rec climbing, thanks for the correction. as for steel vs. rope lanyards i suppose i agree that a steel-core lanyard is a bit heavy but now that i've been using one daily it's not awkward or bulky to me and i do enjoy the added safety of steel connection from D to D with or without power tools. it's 1/2 inch diameter thick and all excess length hangs neatly down at my side. i find i have more control of my steel-core...ever try flipping a flimsy rope up the backside of a 3-foot-diameter trunk? i guess they probably do make rigid, rope lanyards, eh? i would lean towards steel rmi but that's just my opinion and i am only 2 years in the tree, one with rope lanyard, one with steel.

that's the great thing about this forum, you can get ample input from it to be able to take a consensus of other climbers and their styles, then forge your own. a couple of years back it would have saved me from spending on that rock-climbing saddle before i realized i needed Ds, lol. wish i had discovered this earlier.

good luck!

 

[rmihalek]

I won't be using any power tools up in the tree, so I think I'll go with a rope lanyard. I've read that even the steel core lanyards can be cut with a chain saw.

I just want to climb a tree and set up a sleeping platform and take a nap 60 or 160 feet above the earth.

 

[Fireaxman]

I won't be using any power tools up in the tree, so I think I'll go with a rope lanyard. I've read that even the steel core lanyards can be cut with a chain saw.

I just want to climb a tree and set up a sleeping platform and take a nap 60 or 160 feet above the earth.

Sometimes I cut, sometimes I do not cut, but whether I cut or not I still like the steel core. Easier to flip, and easier to pass around a large diameter tree.

But I usually wind up cutting something, even on a recreational climb, to do something to help the tree (and the climber) while I am up there. I usually remove vines, dead limbs and staubs with a handsaw on my way up even on a recreational climb, and a sharp handsaw can nick a rope lanyard pretty seriously. Never heard of someone cutting through a steel core with a HAND saw, but I did cut a (non-steel core) rigging line pretty seriously with a Fanno once.

 

[046]

deleted: if a total newbie, please find an experienced instructor to learn from.

disclaimer: don't ever use internet as your only source of info, find an experienced instructor.

 

[GIZROID]

Yes For The Split Tail

I Am Just Starting Out And Using The Split Tail. I Started With A 5'6" Piece Of Rope . I Tie It To A Biner With A Buntline Hitch. I Then Tie A Figure 8 Just Past The Buntline As A Visual And Tactile Cue So That I Won't Disconnect That Biner While I Am Advancing My Rope In The Tree. I Also Use Different Colored Biners For My Lanyard To Keep The Confusion To A Min.

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

rope lanyard can be cut with a pocket knife, much less than a handsaw under the right conditions. steel for me. just yesterday i knicked my flip-line with the 200, hardly enough to fray the cover but had that been rope it may have sucked it in and severed it. of course i was in a climbing line as well. i've heard accounts of steel-core lanyards being severed with a hard direct hit on a tensioned lanyard. i've also heard accounts of people who experimented on the ground by trying and trying to cut through one and couldn't. i don't know, if anyone has experience with this please give us your input.

046 is right on. internet as your only source of info is a bad thing with any research, but especially research like TREE CLIMBING. Take an intro to arboriculture class maybe, you will learn alot about tree biology, disease, pruning, all things which can make even a recreational climb safer. Read books and weather you want to join ISA or not, i've found their publications up to date and unwavering as to how to climb and rig safely. Take from the pros in this forum who are physically in the tree, every day. You'll be alright.

i was just gonna say about your split tails, if you just buy 5' pieces of climbing line (for a few bucks a piece) right from your arborist supply you can get them in opposing colors to your climbing line which can cut down on confustion when working your system. i find the blue against the yellow a dead give-away as to where the tail is and how my hitch is working.