The truth about Auto-Tune and M-Tronic

[CATDIESEL]

If you Stihl guys knew who they purchased their technology from, you'd be jumping off bridges all across the country. :smile2:

why don't you enlighten us, whomever/wherever they "purchased" it from, it must be pretty good, as it is a trouble free system..........unlike husky? by the way , what company did husky buy up to get their autotune, isn't the typical husky m.o.?

 

[John_DeereGreen]

441 MTronic here. I bought it about a month after they were released and threw it into production firewood. I'm guessing it's had 200 tanks put through it in the last year and a half. Zero issues, I would buy another one tomorrow.

It went from 20 degree winter, to 110 degree summer and didn't miss a beat.

 

[Jacob J.]

If you Stihl guys knew who they purchased their technology from, you'd be jumping off bridges all across the country. :smile2:

I've heard things.

I have it on good authority that they know something about engines, have for some time.

And here I thought it was Redmax... umpkin:

 

[Officer's Match]

It is normal to use "high idle" like that, when the saw has been sitting for 10 mins.

Not my C-M; just flip switch to "on" and give it a little tug and it will jump to life. Even cold, push lever all the way down to "cold start" and 3 pulls max to a strong idle that appears completely unlikely to die. After it's been started (even momentarily) its one pull EVERY time. The M-Tronic really is a dream to run.

 

[Steeltech]

Hard mount kit

Never heard of a 441 hard mount kit? What is it?QUOTE=RAMROD48;3851378]How about guys who sell and work on them?

Only M-Tronic we have gotten back for any type of repair...replace the spring mounts with the "hard mount kit" after the guy yanked it out of a tree...

I think he used the cable on the skidder...:msp_mellow:[/QUOTE]

 

[SawTroll]

If it was Husky, maybe they did an even swap for all the Zama carbs Husky needs to make their saws run right....

The "failing" Walbros were just the HDA 190-series, that was used on the 357xp/359 saws for some years - there mostly are other reasons when they choose to use Zama ones.

 

[epicklein22]

If you looking in the forestry section, you will see where a Mass. logger had a love and hate relationship with a 576xp. Ended up in the shop quite a bit....

I was all about a 562xp, but then my dealer sold a dud and the luster dropped off. He replaced all the components and nothing fixed it. Spent countless time with the saw and on the phone. Eventually Husky had him send it back....

I'm on the wait and see bandwagon for a little longer...

 

[Steeltech]

Strat scavenging and X-torq

The Komatsu corporation holds the patent on what Stihl calls the Stratified scavenging 2-stroke engine design and what husky calls X-Torque. Both Stihl and Husky have made enough changes to the original patent that they were able utilize the technology? With Husky, this process was made a little easier as their parent company (Electrolux) purchased the Komatsu Corporation a few years back. With respect to auto-tune or M-Tronic, this design has been used for decades in the bike/marine/automotive industry and did not require "permission" or "purchase"

And here I thought it was Redmax... umpkin:

 

[sachsmo]

The MT/AT are surely a compromise between longevity and top performance.

I would not doubt that the system could become erratic under certain conditions.

For most they are "close enough" to max performance, but there are certainly "built in limitations" for warranty considerations.

 

[AndrewGeib]

Had my 441cm all summer the only problem I had with it was running out of wood to cut with it LOL!!!! What an awesome saw,never any issues:msp_thumbup:

 

[CATDIESEL]

i am still hoping one of the resident "technology experts" here can tell us where it is that stihl got all of their second-rate-to husky-technology at. i live very close to a large bridge, and i don't know what i will do if i get an answer i don't like:msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared:

 

[RAMROD48]

Never heard of a 441 hard mount kit? What is it?

1138 007 1007 AV-Spring kit, soft (1,2,7,9,13,15)

1138 007 1003 AV-Spring kit, hard (3,4-6,8,10-12,14,16)

Stihl and Husky have offered soft(reg) and hard mounts for years....

 

[lmbrman]

550 and 562 here, both have been flawless- but so have my older saws, and for MANY years

 

[Chris-PA]

correct me if i'm off base here.

The M tronic seems to have;

Inputs,
tach
temp
WOT micro
Ouputs,
fuel delivery solenoid
variable timing
Not much input for the processor to work with eh?

There is no A/F feedback, So is a correct assumption that there are two modes, Start and WOT?

Guess with the "memory" it just stores pre-determined "recipes". Looks like a couple different PID loops to me.

Based on the recent thread here, there is one switch and one fuel control solenoid in the carb. The switch looked to be for detecting the choke. There were two wires running to the carb from the "ignition" (which is clearly a control module now). They may have a temperature sensor in there, but who knows. They get power and rpm from the flywheel. Apparently all these systems do is lean it out for a moment every so many ignition pulses. Then, based on what happens they adjust mixture. So they don't need a lot of inputs since they're just watching what happens, and it doesn't need to be programmed much - the effects of all those input variables are included in the response to the lean out pulse.

It's not that different to listening to the misfire ("4-stroke") - you don't measure the temperature or air pressure, you tune it until you get the response you want. Except it happens continuously while the saw is running.

The carb is a variation of a standard Walbro design.

For what I can see from pictures people have posted, the AutoTune is different, with more stuff in the carb.

 

[Arbonaut]

Intellicarb was always good. They been aiming at this mark for some time. M-Tronic is better than the old way. They burn real clean--I don't think they save any gas, though whatsover.

A well tuned MS261 or MS362 will save you a ton of gas. Not an M-Tronic MS441. They are a guzzler.

 

[Sapo_feo]

I don't have an AT, but I've had the flyer for the 555 since it was announced. I thought about getting one, but the price wasn't right. Now the local shop has a floor model for $555. Can you get carb kits for these or is it going to be a toss and replace?
The only downside I see is the if it does run into trouble I have a long drive to get it to a shop I trust. The local is just a place to buy.

 

[Chris-PA]

Intellicarb has nothing to do with this - it's Stihl marketing speak for "not screwing up the diaphragm vent (i.e. bowl vent) placement". You know, like my old cinder block Mac did far more elegantly, or any B&S lawn mower has correct, or has been standard practice for maybe 60 years in everything else. On a Stihl you gotta pay extra for it.

 

[Arbonaut]

Intellicarb has nothing to do with this - it's Stihl marketing speak for "not screwing up the diaphragm vent (i.e. bowl vent) placement". You know, like my old cinder block Mac did far more elegantly, or any B&S lawn mower has correct, or has been standard practice for maybe 60 years in everything else. On a Stihl you gotta pay extra for it.

Stihl has good marketing, and a cutting edge product, no doubt. The saws can be and are made to run far past the limitations of the chain, anyhow. Invariably, I find myself backing off to refuel and sharpen a far site before me and the Stihl was ready to quit. The 70cc plus saws are just a bottomless pit for fuel, but you can get a lot done in 10-15 minutes.

 

[spike60]

i am still hoping one of the resident "technology experts" here can tell us where it is that stihl got all of their second-rate-to husky-technology at. i live very close to a large bridge, and i don't know what i will do if i get an answer i don't like

At the strong urging of the EU, and to avoid having the word "monopoly" rolling off the tongues of hungry lawyers, Husky sold Generation 1 Auto-Tune, (576), to Stihl. The somewhat more advanced Generation 2 AT, (550, 562), remains a Husky exclusive. (And admitedly has a few component issues to resolve). No need to jump off the bridge. If you're not ashamed of the anti-vibe and air injection piracy, don't sweat the engine management stuff. :msp_rolleyes:

There's a lot of sharing going on, and RAMROD48 is right on both counts. If Husky gets too unfriendly, Stihl could just say, "So, where are you guys going to be buying carbs?" :msp_w00t:

Saws are a lot of fun, at least for us saw geeks that spend a silly amount of time here. Don't get too hung up on the brand stuff.

 

[Mountainman6288]

At the strong urging of the EU, and to avoid having the word "monopoly" rolling off the tongues of hungry lawyers, Husky sold Generation 1 Auto-Tune, (576), to Stihl. The somewhat more advanced Generation 2 AT, (550, 562), remains a Husky exclusive. (And admitedly has a few component issues to resolve). No need to jump off the bridge. If you're not ashamed of the anti-vibe and air injection piracy, don't sweat the engine management stuff. :msp_rolleyes:

There's a lot of sharing going on, and RAMROD48 is right on both counts. If Husky gets too unfriendly, Stihl could just say, "So, where are you guys going to be buying carbs?" :msp_w00t:

Saws are a lot of fun, at least for us saw geeks that spend a silly amount of time here. Don't get too hung up on the brand stuff.

Wish I had posted HUSKY... Its seemed the only possibility. This is how Polaris-Ski-Do and Arctic Cat have handles inovations and infringements on snowmobiles.. Honda bought gen 1 hybrid technology from Toyota. The list goes on.