Top-Line Hitch
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topndrop
ArboristSite Lurker
Wow... I wondered if I would even get one or two responses to this question. Anyway, let me give you a bit more info and see if I can narrow this down a bit. First, I am about 175 lbs. with out gear. Generally I would never rappell out of a tree using this hitch (I carry a decender for this purpose). Also I tie into the tree with a lanyard as back up when ever time and circumstances allow. The fellow that taught me to climb is recognised as one of the best climbers in Florida and he swears by the two and two, but our rigger has been doing his job for 22 years WITHOUT an accident. As for the name - "Top-Line Hitch", as I understand it, Taut-Line Hitch is the correct name (sorry, I misunderstood the name - heavy Southern accents down here + cigar in mouth = "Top-Line Hitch" )
Thanks for all the input - Especially to Jason for the web site address.
BTW - M.B., our rigger CAN tie it with one hand... faster than I can with both...
Thanks for all the input - Especially to Jason for the web site address.
BTW - M.B., our rigger CAN tie it with one hand... faster than I can with both...
topndrop
ArboristSite Lurker
Hey, M.B., sorry, also I ALWAYS put a figure eight in the tail of all my hitches... just to be sure.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
If'n ya look hard; you can see that even though the Blake's supports on a single leg to the saddle from the bottom of it's 4 turn coil, that it also crosses the loaded leg over the leg going to the top of the coil to pull on it too. i think this places a Blake's more with all the rest of the hitches that pull thier 4 coils closed all at once, from top and bottom. This kinda leaves the Taughtline alone as far as mechanics i think, save for the Tarbuck(Natural fiber rope era friction hitch, not pictured); that just majorly pull a round turn closed i think.
Friction Hitch Lineup at MTL
New Friction Hitch Page in Progress at MTL
Mark Adams did an excellent article on these hitches in Oct. 04 Arborist News-Climber's Corner that Tom/Mark have archived with several other pieces of theirs under "Articles". He teased about a followup article too, that i hope he comes thru with.
When making the Blake's it is easy to make a SuiSlide instead; just by the final move with the bitter end/working tail. The way that happens, is a common concept in a few of our working lacings to get the most secured pinch and hold on to the bitter end most securely, to give the lacing most security. By both the amount of pressure direction and the direction of rotation. Which on a 'lifeline'/sliding/frition hitch is of course of utmost importance. Likewise any open tailed friction hitch (one that both legs of friction hitch do not connect to saddle) needs a stopper knot, even though Blake's does sit on it's own tail/bitter end faithfully like an anchor hitch.
i think the sliding hitch strategy works cuz' when you pull down on the hitch in DdRT, you are actually extending that leg of line, and the more static leg of line to saddle, ttries to take the load. Just as it would if it's partner leg was tearing, more elastic, or being lowered. The static leg will take the load. So the hitch loosens up as it isn't loaded, then slides. If, we do the same on SRT, there is no other line to switch the weight to, so as we push down on the top coils, the bottom ones just sieze more to the line in response. For so much hold is needed to support, the system tries to support, so the loosened top coils need the bottom ones to grip tighter to make up the diffeance, and so they do. In DdRT only half the weight is on hitch to start, then weight swithces to static leg, then you are slidning/not supported totally, so pull on hitch is less than 1/2 weight. The softer loading, making the differance in the ability to slide. The 4 coils giving sure, death grip to stop, the preceding buffer (in all but Blake's), keeping the coils from siezing to the line etc. All in concert to not overload friction hitch 4 coil choke death grip to siezing on the line.
The non-Tautline hitches work on a base of 4 continuous gripping coils on top i think. Blake's unique, for it just disturbs the bottom 2 coils bite, allowing slide, as weight switches to the static leg/dead ended to saddle in DdRT. The 4 and 6 coil prusiks, bite more and are presented more for completeness. The rest of the friction hitches shown have a 4 coil death grip on line, but the loading preceded by another single choking coil. To buffer loading to the 4 coil death grip, that could sieze; but the preceding buffer keeps the forces in the more manageable powerband of performance for the friction hitch. VT family giving a buffering list of line bends, rather than the single choking coil. If the preceding coil buffer was not a simple turn, but the much, much better round turn strategy, it would be too good; have too much grip. The much lesser reliable single turn; thereby finding place here by definition.
It should be easy to learn new hitches, if they are based off of the same forms, with slight mechanical alteration to taste with this view.
With a lanyard on, i generally have 2 free hands. A distel so similar to tautline in lacing(but not mechanics), should be as likely a candidate for a 1 handed tie; save for linking last leg to saddle.
Hidden Button to enlarge photos below
:alien:
.
Friction Hitch Lineup at MTL
New Friction Hitch Page in Progress at MTL
Mark Adams did an excellent article on these hitches in Oct. 04 Arborist News-Climber's Corner that Tom/Mark have archived with several other pieces of theirs under "Articles". He teased about a followup article too, that i hope he comes thru with.
When making the Blake's it is easy to make a SuiSlide instead; just by the final move with the bitter end/working tail. The way that happens, is a common concept in a few of our working lacings to get the most secured pinch and hold on to the bitter end most securely, to give the lacing most security. By both the amount of pressure direction and the direction of rotation. Which on a 'lifeline'/sliding/frition hitch is of course of utmost importance. Likewise any open tailed friction hitch (one that both legs of friction hitch do not connect to saddle) needs a stopper knot, even though Blake's does sit on it's own tail/bitter end faithfully like an anchor hitch.
i think the sliding hitch strategy works cuz' when you pull down on the hitch in DdRT, you are actually extending that leg of line, and the more static leg of line to saddle, ttries to take the load. Just as it would if it's partner leg was tearing, more elastic, or being lowered. The static leg will take the load. So the hitch loosens up as it isn't loaded, then slides. If, we do the same on SRT, there is no other line to switch the weight to, so as we push down on the top coils, the bottom ones just sieze more to the line in response. For so much hold is needed to support, the system tries to support, so the loosened top coils need the bottom ones to grip tighter to make up the diffeance, and so they do. In DdRT only half the weight is on hitch to start, then weight swithces to static leg, then you are slidning/not supported totally, so pull on hitch is less than 1/2 weight. The softer loading, making the differance in the ability to slide. The 4 coils giving sure, death grip to stop, the preceding buffer (in all but Blake's), keeping the coils from siezing to the line etc. All in concert to not overload friction hitch 4 coil choke death grip to siezing on the line.
The non-Tautline hitches work on a base of 4 continuous gripping coils on top i think. Blake's unique, for it just disturbs the bottom 2 coils bite, allowing slide, as weight switches to the static leg/dead ended to saddle in DdRT. The 4 and 6 coil prusiks, bite more and are presented more for completeness. The rest of the friction hitches shown have a 4 coil death grip on line, but the loading preceded by another single choking coil. To buffer loading to the 4 coil death grip, that could sieze; but the preceding buffer keeps the forces in the more manageable powerband of performance for the friction hitch. VT family giving a buffering list of line bends, rather than the single choking coil. If the preceding coil buffer was not a simple turn, but the much, much better round turn strategy, it would be too good; have too much grip. The much lesser reliable single turn; thereby finding place here by definition.
It should be easy to learn new hitches, if they are based off of the same forms, with slight mechanical alteration to taste with this view.
With a lanyard on, i generally have 2 free hands. A distel so similar to tautline in lacing(but not mechanics), should be as likely a candidate for a 1 handed tie; save for linking last leg to saddle.
Hidden Button to enlarge photos below
:alien:
.
Last edited:
DDM
Addicted to ArboristSite
Rocky was up here about 2 yrs ago and Taught me the Distel.I havent even Used any other Climbing hitch since. Much easier to advance especially after a short descent.
jason j ladue
Vanilla Snoop
DDM said:Rocky was up here about 2 yrs ago and Taught me the Distel.I havent even Used any other Climbing hitch since. Much easier to advance especially after a short descent.
that one looks like alot of tying , to me.
Stumper
One Man Band
Jason J., The loops are permanent knots. What does that leave? An inverted 4/1 tautline. Tain't nothin' to it but it works about a dozen times better.
Brock2saws
ArboristSite Lurker
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Stumper said:
Amen.
NYSawBoss
ArboristSite Operative
I'm currently using the blakes and loving it. I made a small prussik out of some small diameter parachute cord and attach a mini biner to that and then clip in my micro pulley. 9 times out of 10 i am footlocking the tail of my rope so the micro pulley feed the slack through the knot...i never have to touch it. I want to try the distel with 4 over 1 under..anyone know what length cord i should get and what diameter to function with 1/2 and 7/16 line?? thanks a lot.
tony
tony
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Stumper said:
And they are fisherman's knots too, which are double turn overhand's
I'm on a braided VT (Kenny, that's something like valdutant, though my spelling of it's only a little etter then yours) on 3/8 PMI kevlar covered kernmantle. I use it because it does not melt, nor does it mark the climbing line on a fast rap. (Brian turned me on to it, who got it from bigjohn)
Anyone who gives the new closed hitches a try, long enough to get past the learning/confidance curve, will not go back to a standard open hitch.
When I was using regular 5/16 double braid for my VT I was paying around 1.30 for the hitch, as apposed to 16.00 for a spliced 16-strand split tail, (though I have spliced a few of my own of those too)
jason j ladue
Vanilla Snoop
it's a pretty knot, but what if you have to re-tie. for instance. today my climb line got hung up in a couple limbs limbs about 10' below me and i couldnt pull it out unless i pulled up the entire 120' on the standing end, or go down and work my line free. so i undid the blakes and simply pulled the running end out of the snag- came right out. its super easy n quick to undo the tie it back up. from what i gather looking at your hitch you have to undo fishermans then that inverted tl then redo them again. i guess you could just open the clip to take the fishermans off, but the you stll have to work through the hitch. i hope this is making some sense. do you leave the hitch attatched to the climb line at all times? even when you're not woworking? i guess i just dont quite understand how it works. 
it seems like youd have to tie two knots instead of one... and the fishermans bend is pretty hard to undo once its been loaded up, no? i know alot of guys use the vt, so there must be something to it, but i just dont get it yet. im thoroughly pleased w/ the blakes for now. it is a slick knot. very efficient. to each his own i spose.
it seems like youd have to tie two knots instead of one... and the fishermans bend is pretty hard to undo once its been loaded up, no? i know alot of guys use the vt, so there must be something to it, but i just dont get it yet. im thoroughly pleased w/ the blakes for now. it is a slick knot. very efficient. to each his own i spose.
jason j ladue
Vanilla Snoop
wait! i (think) i get it! the light just went on... you leave the fishermans knots and just pull the line through the loops?
I was raised tautline.but some of those knots are cool!!!I can't believe I've never seen someone using the blake's,but I have seen the distel and Vt.The only problem I got with those is you have to haul all this extra crap around.Is it really worth it?Is it more comfortable or just safer?I was taught by old school folks(a couple of Native Americans who at fifty can schock the heck out of me)but am never too set in my ways to improve.Gimme the 411.
Stumper
One Man Band
Jason J., There are multiple ways to do this but I'll try to explain what I do.The Scaffold knots (Double fisherman's loops) are permanent. They choke onto the Biner. The biner spine side of the cord stays on the biner. The gate side slides off for tying/untying. The Scaffold knotted end is treated lsimply as the end of the rope. Form the wraps, tuck the end through and slip the loop back onto the biner. Tah dah. The end of the climbing line is on another 'biner. I tie the hitch before I start to climb.If I am ascending via a secured free climb I then have my normal lanyard plus what amounts to 100' or 120' adjustable lanyard. If I set a line first then the hitch is still tied before I leave the ground. If I decide to recrotch while in the tree I can unclip and throw my line through the new crotch. It is very very rare for me to retie the hitch while in the tree but if I need too it isn't a big deal-just lanyard in and do it. I have never understood the complaints about "what if you drop the cord?". If you do you can still tie a Tautline or Blakes with the tail of your rope. If I decide I need a secondary tie in with my tail how I do that doesn't change at all.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I retie my VT frequently
like has been said, the terminal knots are perminent.
As with any knot, once you ge the hang of it, you just flip it together, the VT is just trun down 3-4 times and then braid the rest of it.
Is it worth it? All i can sy is "one hand slack tending". Coming off a limbwalk, or pulling myself up a short ascent hand ove hand, I can hold on with one hand and pull all the slack out with the other.
The whn going down I can release the hitch with two fingers, wehn I'm making a long swing and want to run out some line on the fly, it's real smooth.
As Justin does, if i need to double crotch, then it's a taughtline on my tail. Big trees I may carry a second tress set, but not all the time. Like Tom (but to a lesser degree), I've been known to have some funky set-ups in big trees.
like has been said, the terminal knots are perminent.
As with any knot, once you ge the hang of it, you just flip it together, the VT is just trun down 3-4 times and then braid the rest of it.
Is it worth it? All i can sy is "one hand slack tending". Coming off a limbwalk, or pulling myself up a short ascent hand ove hand, I can hold on with one hand and pull all the slack out with the other.
The whn going down I can release the hitch with two fingers, wehn I'm making a long swing and want to run out some line on the fly, it's real smooth.
As Justin does, if i need to double crotch, then it's a taughtline on my tail. Big trees I may carry a second tress set, but not all the time. Like Tom (but to a lesser degree), I've been known to have some funky set-ups in big trees.
