Trailer frames and ratings

[Haywire Haywood]

A pickup truck frame trailer won't work for me. I need the trailer to haul my tractor too.

You can overload and break anything. With 12k on a 7k trailer, it shouldn't surprise you that it self destructed. Since my truck is only tow rated for 6600, has a 4.6L gasser instead of a diesel and is my daily driver too, I won't be pulling 6 ton of anything behind it for any reason.

A 14x77 with 24" sides is 182 cubic feet. The general rule of thumb (by my understanding) is that a thrown cord is 180 cu ft, so that trailer will hold almost exactly 1 cord. A cord of green oak supposedly goes over 5k. The trailer is about 1500lbs IIRC, so with a load of green oak 6" under the rails so I don't lose any on the road, I'd be right at my tow limit and just under the trailer GVWR. Sounds like a good match.

Only problem I can foresee is when what goes on there isn't under my control. Like at the gravel pit when the man with 5 ton of gravel in his bucket lets the whole load slide out onto the trailer. That hasn't happened to me yet though with my single axle trailer. They've got pretty good operators down there.

Ian

 

[woodcutter69]

you can overbuild a trailer.

i am currently looking for an older pickup to make a trailer out of the frame and bed. i used this type before with a 67 Chevy one ton with 2' side boards on truck and trailer you can pack some serious wood in them both... and it wont stick out going down the road... also the key is to find one that runs same tires and rims so you only have one spare to carry....i have built these before for less then $500.00 you can run hydraulic surge brakes from hitch to the axle brakes also... but also i have used landscapers trailers and yes you can overload them... i bent axles under one 6.5x14' 7000# trailer hauled and scaled 12000# and bent the axles. the trailer i have now is bent also... i hauled a load of logs up from the creek and now the rear of the trailer is bowed down.bent the frame rails and they are 5" channel. you can not over build a trailer but you can over pay for one.

you can overbuild a trailer. the trailer needs to flex a little or something will break

 

[KMB]

Bump. I’ve been doing more thinking and research and I have a ‘book’ to post…sorry. You fellas have passed on some good, helpful info…that’s why I’m posting yet again. I’ve been looking at some old AS threads and pictures of what some folks are using for hauling firewood and I’ve changed my mind to a car hauler/equipment trailer.

I would like a utility trailer for a ramp gate mainly, and I’d like the low side rails for low height loads. It might not be a big deal, but I don’t think I’d like using plywood side boards with out attaching them to the trailer side rails. Attaching would make them more ‘permanent’ then side boards in stake pockets that could be removed quickly. The plywood could stand free with rounds to hold it up I guess.

A car hauler/equipment trailer, with the open flat deck, just seems to have more options for loads…within reason with my half-ton in front of it. I’ve found out that ramp gates are options on certain brands of car hauler/equipment trailers. Even if I’d buy a used car hauler without a ramp gate (with slide-in ramps only), I could buy a portable fold-up ramp for my mower (easier to load than with 2 individual ramps). As mentioned already, I’d like built side boards in the stake pockets better. For loads where I would want side boards; but low enough that I could reach over the side of the trailer, I’d simply build a set of lower height side boards. I’d like to get a yard or 2 or more in a nearby town to mow this summer with my ZTR mower and I’d use the low sideboards for when I’m also hauling the push mower and whatever else. To anchor the mowers inside the side boards, I could install recessed D-rings on the trailer floor. And of course use the trailer for its intended use…to haul vehicles if ever needed.

A used trailer would be fine of course, but most I’ve seen locally have a dovetail and I wouldn’t want that for the slope of the approach into my yard and other places where I have slightly dragged with the dovetailed car hauler I currently borrow. I’ve only seen ramp gates on these types of trailers in pictures online…not locally yet. I could live without a ramp gate, but because I don’t want a dovetail, I might have to go new.

I have another thought for the future…it might not be sensible. I would buy a 7K rated car hauler/equipment trailer (pretty common) with the thought of replacing the 3500lb rated axles for 5200lb axles when I would upgrade my truck. Some of the 7K rated trailers have 5” channel frames, 5” channel wrap tongues, 3” channel or 3"x2”x3/16” angle crossmembers and optional 2 5/16” couplers. Some of the 10K rated trailers have the same specs except with the 3” channel crossmembers only (not the 3” angle), standard 2 5/16” couplers (and of course 5200lb axles). So, later on I would replace the axles to get the higher weight rating. If I would go with a 7K trailer with the 3” angle crossmembers (if the 3” channels were not available), I could get them on 16” centers if the option was available. There is the trailer weight (again, for my half-ton with it’s smaller 4.6L V8 and 3.55 gears…don’t want to pull more trailer weight than I have to for payload reasons) to wonder about. Would 2000lbs. be a fair estimate for a 83” x 16’ trailer with these specs (including brakes on both axles) ? Would leave 5000lbs. of payload…legally. For a comparison, a Big Tex 70CH 83” x 16’ (car hauler) has a 5”x3”x5/16” frame, 4” channel wrap tongue, and 3”x2”x3/16” crossmembers and weighs 1800lbs. according to their specs.

One other thing is that a 10K rated trailer in the future (with the right truck in front of it…in the future) will be big enough for me. I don’t own a tractor with a FEL so all of my firewood handling is done by hand. I know a fella that has a tree removal company and he could load me up with log length wood…but I’d have the problem of unloading it without a tractor at the house. It probably could be done…but it would be hard and dangerous I’m sure. A 10K rated trailer for me would be for getting a large amount of rounds at one time…and I’m sure I would be worn out cutting and loading by myself to fully load (cord and a half?) the trailer properly. Getting loaded up with rounds with a tractor (that my tree guy friend uses) that I could roll off the trailer at the house is a different story.

I got a quote on this trailer Trail Master in 83” x 16’, without the dovetail, 2 braked axles, 4 extra stake pockets (total of 5 each side), 48” tail gate and spare tire bracket for $2240. There are 2 other brands (PJ and Load Trail) that I want to get quotes on.

What say y’all…besides that I think way too much…. Is my ‘axle upgrade later’ a crazy idea? Just trying to settle in my mind what to aim for.

Kevin

 

[Beefie]

Bump. I’ve been doing more thinking and research and I have a ‘book’ to post…sorry. You fellas have passed on some good, helpful info…that’s why I’m posting yet again. I’ve been looking at some old AS threads and pictures of what some folks are using for hauling firewood and I’ve changed my mind to a car hauler/equipment trailer.

I would like a utility trailer for a ramp gate mainly, and I’d like the low side rails for low height loads. It might not be a big deal, but I don’t think I’d like using plywood side boards with out attaching them to the trailer side rails. Attaching would make them more ‘permanent’ then side boards in stake pockets that could be removed quickly. The plywood could stand free with rounds to hold it up I guess.

A car hauler/equipment trailer, with the open flat deck, just seems to have more options for loads…within reason with my half-ton in front of it. I’ve found out that ramp gates are options on certain brands of car hauler/equipment trailers. Even if I’d buy a used car hauler without a ramp gate (with slide-in ramps only), I could buy a portable fold-up ramp for my mower (easier to load than with 2 individual ramps). As mentioned already, I’d like built side boards in the stake pockets better. For loads where I would want side boards; but low enough that I could reach over the side of the trailer, I’d simply build a set of lower height side boards. I’d like to get a yard or 2 or more in a nearby town to mow this summer with my ZTR mower and I’d use the low sideboards for when I’m also hauling the push mower and whatever else. To anchor the mowers inside the side boards, I could install recessed D-rings on the trailer floor. And of course use the trailer for its intended use…to haul vehicles if ever needed.

A used trailer would be fine of course, but most I’ve seen locally have a dovetail and I wouldn’t want that for the slope of the approach into my yard and other places where I have slightly dragged with the dovetailed car hauler I currently borrow. I’ve only seen ramp gates on these types of trailers in pictures online…not locally yet. I could live without a ramp gate, but because I don’t want a dovetail, I might have to go new.

I have another thought for the future…it might not be sensible. I would buy a 7K rated car hauler/equipment trailer (pretty common) with the thought of replacing the 3500lb rated axles for 5200lb axles when I would upgrade my truck. Some of the 7K rated trailers have 5” channel frames, 5” channel wrap tongues, 3” channel or 3"x2”x3/16” angle crossmembers and optional 2 5/16” couplers. Some of the 10K rated trailers have the same specs except with the 3” channel crossmembers only (not the 3” angle), standard 2 5/16” couplers (and of course 5200lb axles). So, later on I would replace the axles to get the higher weight rating. If I would go with a 7K trailer with the 3” angle crossmembers (if the 3” channels were not available), I could get them on 16” centers if the option was available. There is the trailer weight (again, for my half-ton with it’s smaller 4.6L V8 and 3.55 gears…don’t want to pull more trailer weight than I have to for payload reasons) to wonder about. Would 2000lbs. be a fair estimate for a 83” x 16’ trailer with these specs (including brakes on both axles) ? Would leave 5000lbs. of payload…legally. For a comparison, a Big Tex 70CH 83” x 16’ (car hauler) has a 5”x3”x5/16” frame, 4” channel wrap tongue, and 3”x2”x3/16” crossmembers and weighs 1800lbs. according to their specs.

One other thing is that a 10K rated trailer in the future (with the right truck in front of it…in the future) will be big enough for me. I don’t own a tractor with a FEL so all of my firewood handling is done by hand. I know a fella that has a tree removal company and he could load me up with log length wood…but I’d have the problem of unloading it without a tractor at the house. It probably could be done…but it would be hard and dangerous I’m sure. A 10K rated trailer for me would be for getting a large amount of rounds at one time…and I’m sure I would be worn out cutting and loading by myself to fully load (cord and a half?) the trailer properly. Getting loaded up with rounds with a tractor (that my tree guy friend uses) that I could roll off the trailer at the house is a different story.

I got a quote on this trailer Trail Master in 83” x 16’, without the dovetail, 2 braked axles, 4 extra stake pockets (total of 5 each side), 48” tail gate and spare tire bracket for $2240. There are 2 other brands (PJ and Load Trail) that I want to get quotes on.

What say y’all…besides that I think way too much…. Is my ‘axle upgrade later’ a crazy idea? Just trying to settle in my mind what to aim for.

Kevin

I don't think the axle upgrade would be the way to go. I think It would be harder to get it reregistered once its been tagged for 7000lb. I no that you have researched this a ton but For what you are doing I would buy a used 16' 7000lb for now . Then upgrade to a 10400lb when you get your bigger truck, you could be saving up while you are waiting for the biigger truck.

Just my 2cents worth.

Beefie

 

[daddy]

Yup, yer crazy. :doh:

You will waste money and time with an axle upgrade on a perfectly good trailer, especially if you are buying it new.

Either get the 7K now and decide later if it is enough, or go for it, and buy the 10K now, and you will be done, no matter what truck you pull it with.

I haven't followed along, but I'd say if you really think you need the bigger one, just get it first.

Just my not so humble opinion.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

To catch you up... he'll want the 10K for later, but doesn't have the truck to pull it now.

Ian

 

[woodcutter69]

if you go new it will cost you well over $1200.00 if you go new to upgrade the axles. you will have to get new tires and wheels to mate up with a 8 bolt lug axle. think ahead it will cost more money in the long run, way more money.

 

[KMB]

Good stuff fellas...even the 'not so humble opinion' LOL! I can take it. I knew I could get some comments/opinions and it makes good sense to try for a dedicated 7K trailer and do a dedicated 10K trailer later. Rep as I can.

Thanks Ian for the short and too the point 'catch-up' for those joining the thread.

I do think I'd like to price out and try for a 5" channel (or 5" angle) car/equipment trailer. I don't think the 5" channel would be that much heavier than a 4" channel frame...or would it?

Kevin

 

[jimbojango]

Good stuff fellas...even the 'not so humble opinion' LOL! I can take it. I knew I could get some comments/opinions and it makes good sense to try for a dedicated 7K trailer and do a dedicated 10K trailer later. Rep as I can.

Thanks Ian for the short and too the point 'catch-up' for those joining the thread.

I do think I'd like to price out and try for a 5" channel (or 5" angle) car/equipment trailer. I don't think the 5" channel would be that much heavier than a 4" channel frame...or would it?

Kevin

Not much heavier i wouldn't think, and MUCH stronger. I doubt you ever mess your stringers up no matter how you load it though, you'll ruin tires and bearings and bend axle's before the stuff on top goes bad unless you somehow manage to pull the tounge out or bend it

 

[Locust Cutter]

Not much heavier i wouldn't think, and MUCH stronger. I doubt you ever mess your stringers up no matter how you load it though, you'll ruin tires and bearings and bend axle's before the stuff on top goes bad unless you somehow manage to pull the tounge out or bend it

I agree with Jim, Kevin. The heavier trailer likely won't tax your truck that much more but you'll be ready when you get the next truck. The other option, is to just buy the 7k trailer and sell it when you're ready to buy the bigger truck/trailer and get the 10k trailer then. You'll likely not lose a lot of value on the 7k trailer (as you've discovered that used 7k trailer aren't much cheaper than new ones). You'll get most of your investment back and be hassle and money ahead in the long run.

The 3rd option (if you can afford it) would be to keep the 7k trailer and buy the 10k to augment the 7 k one. This option only makes sense for one reason if it ends up being applicable to you; if keep your old truck when you get the newer/bigger one.
Other than a stock trailer, I intend to end up with two trailers: a 25-30' gooseneck and a 16-18' car/utility trailer. They both have their advantages/disadvantages, but there are good reasons for both (or in your case 2 different weight ratings). The smaller trailer can be pulled by any reasonable vehicle with a ball/receiver hitch and be used for a lot of mundane tasks to augment the carrying capacity of your truck (not to mention accommodate longer loads). The larger one can then be used for your heavier/bigger hauling tasks when it's needed, thereby reducing the fuel waste for lighter smaller loads and keeping wear/tear down on the bigger more expensive trailer/truck.

I want the smaller car hauler for a lot of smaller load tasks and for use in places that I can't get the gooseneck into. Any of my trucks can safely pull one (except for my little Toyota motorized wheelbarrow LMAO), which frees up it's use from one dedicated truck. The bigger one for you (or the GN for me) can then be used for bigger loads, with the "big" truck ( in my case for Hay/large loads of firewood/tractors/bigger scrap steel, etc). Unless your using a diesel, your big truck is likely going to eat A LOT more fuel than your F-150 does, and this option (money and necessity provided) makes much better financial and logistical sense than a "1 size fits all approach".

I know you've thought this out Kevin, but, hopefully that might give you something to think about and make a better informed financial decision. I guess the question I would ask, which you may have already addressed, is how much work will you be doing with your trailer(s) and what are you looking to get out of the investment? If you're doing this for yourself, buy the slightly heavier trailer and be content with the sound investment. If you're going to be using this (them) as a viable "business" tool, you might be better suited with a bigger/smaller truck and trailer combo setup.
I apologize for the rambling post, but I was trying to play Devil's Advocate and logically present both sides of consideration for you.
-Bryan

 

[zogger]

go a step up

I still got the 1/2 ton 2003 F-150 4x4 with 5.4L .
I remember seeing a picture of that trailer you borrow. I would like to upgrade to a 3/4 ton truck myself someday.

--look around for the next size up from pickups, you'll be surprised, you can find a decent cargo hauler and trailer puller for the *same loot* as guys want for pickups. You can easily get 3-4 times the load rating, etc. And they won't get all that worse of mileage either, (or they can get better mileage, like those snub nosed diesel isuzus you see the landscraper guys use) and tons of them all you need is a regular drivers license, no CDL needed.

 

[KMB]

Bryan,

Thanks again for your thoughts, reasonings and advice, no need to apologize for the ‘rambling’. I sometimes ‘ramble’ here because y’all know what I’m talking about and it bores my wife (and sometimes others) when I try to talk about my thoughts about equipment. If you have anymore to pass on…I’m all ears!

A 4” channel frame would work, but the way I am, I’d feel more comfortable with the 5” frame.

For my next truck, for my personal use, I’d go with a SRW 4x4 truck in ¾ ton (or 1 ton). Another thought I’ve had is if I was to ever run out of work with my current work (drafting), I might try hotshot hauling and hay hauling with a 1 ton dually and a proper gooseneck. When the time is right and I can upgrade, I’ll have to look at my situation (work and finances) and decide on SRW or DRW. I’d keep my ½ ton with the 7K trailer if I figure I should try the hotshot/hay hauling with a bigger truck and trailer. Otherwise, I’d sell the ½ ton and 7K trailer, and step up to the stronger SRW 4x4 and 10K trailer. For my personal use, the heaviest loads will/would be firewood…as of right now and as far as I can see into the future LOL!

Along with a 7K tandem, I would like to also have a 5 ‘(or 6’) x 10’ single axle utility trailer. I could pull it behind my family wagon (Toyota Highlander) for trips to town to pick up an appliance, furniture and so on. I cut firewood for my mom-in-law and it would be handy to load the trailer with split wood, and take it to her small yard and drop it off so she can unload it in her time (before I get flamed…she is physically able to unload and stack her wood). For splitting wood in my yard, I would throw the splits on the trailer to keep them off the ground if I couldn’t stack right away, and move the trailer around with my old 4wheeler. My bro-in-law has such a trailer (5’x8’) and I did use it as I have described…but he needs it now for his work, so I don’t have it at my house. Also, I mentioned my wanting to mow some yards for extra cash, a big enough single axle trailer (6’x10’) would work great for that too.

For now, one thing/trailer at a time, and a heavier built 7K would cover the most bases for me.

Kevin