Trajectile Dysfunction

[huskyhank]

Grind the chain on a machine (or have someone do it for you) to get good even angles on the cutters. Longer bars are bad about doing what you showed in the video when the chain is not evenly sharpened. After a half dozen hand filings my chains are not so perfect. A perfect grind on the chain fixes it for me.

 

[Rounder]

Not going to offer any falling advice....That's more a regional/species deal....You've got DD's book. Good, basic fundamentals in that.

For your chain, make sure your rails are true....That's usually the small part of the equation though...Get those cutters sharp, gullets are evil, and take a file-o-plate to the drags. If you run a proper chain, you won't have rail issues.

And take your time.

Fighting a ####ty bar/chain will lead to ####ty cuts, and overall ####ty technique.

Thanks for posting, hope the rest of you had a good, safe week - Sam

 

[imagineero]

You've got a grasp of the fundamentals, seems the question you're asking is not so much about how you went on this tree, but how to become a better faller. The short answer is to do a lot of falling. But since you drop trees pretty infrequently, that isn't going to work. Peer review is great, but pro fallers use a lot of techniques that are ideal for their situation, probably less so for yours. You've already received some good critique and advice so I'll just throw in my 2c worth on the general question of how to become a better faller.

Firstly, I'd say avoid complex techniques. sisawheels, dutchmans, etc all have their place, but if you can't execute a good plain face then you don't have the finesse to pull off the more complex stuff. Those trick cuts only get you the last 5% anyhow, 95% of it is just good basic saw work - a good face, and a good back cut.

Use wedges, use a pull rope. Get yourself a throw line, and a rope. Use both, together. You're in the position of needing certainty over production, wedges and a pull rope will give it to you.

Take your time is the most important thing. If you're an infrequent faller, the biggest enemy you have is rushing. Particularly when you get yourself a big'un, the adrenaline will be flowing and you'll be likely to make a mistake, or over do it in a way that you can't correct for. Seriously, take your time. Look up. Look all round the tree. Set a pull rope. Plan your escape (where were you running to in that vid, across the back of the tree instead of away?). Layout your gear.

Mark your tree. Even the very best fallers mark out their trees when faced with a big one. Use sticks, string, or whatever you need. Use chalk, Mark out the face. You've got all the time in the world to cut the face, so use an extra few minutes there. No need to rush in. Do absolutely mark every thing out - gunning cut, face cut, back cut, how much hinge you're going to leave. It will make the job a lot easier, and a lot more accurate. Take your time on cutting that face, even when you've marked it out. Stop and look at the far side, often, or have someone watch it for you so you don't over cut. Make that face something to be proud of.

If you've done all the above, the back cut is almost an afterthought. A well shaped, well cut face, with wedges and a pull rope, a well inspected top, and a well planned escape route sets you up for easy success, at the only part of the job that has a time frame. Use the gunning sites to stay parallel to your face, and take your time, even here. I see more amateurs destroy their hard work by overcutting the hinge on the back cut than by underdoing it. If you've got that pull rope set (don't overdo it there, only just enough to hold the weight of the tree) and wedges, then you've bought yourself some time. That hinge is control. Cut it through and you've lost it.

Shaun

 

[jrcat]

I recently cut a hard maple 8' away from my brother in laws house. the top leaned away from the house but the stick did not. It was also 2 separate sticks coming from one stump one 28" and the other was 18". the 18" was still alive but the larger one was dead and had been for some time it was all rot. I dropped the small side first then went to the second one. I put a choker 20' up and hooked the cable to it and put some slight tension to it or so I thought. i made the face cut then started my back cut 6" in it blew apart mostly due to rot and the tension from the cable but it still went where I wanted it to. Anyway I am no pro by a long shot and cutting rot is dangerous as all get out just my 2 cents

 

[jrcat]

Hey if I'm ever down your way when we get back I'll fall with ya I have no doubts that you would be good to work with ........I'll not set ya on fire lol might speak in a lang you won't understand .......It really colourful to cuss in gaelic lol


Anyways enough from me off to go haul wood

I know how to cuss in amish lol

 

[HuskStihl]

I recently cut a hard maple 8' away from my brother in laws house. the top leaned away from the house but the stick did not. It was also 2 separate sticks coming from one stump one 28" and the other was 18". the 18" was still alive but the larger one was dead and had been for some time it was all rot. I dropped the small side first then went to the second one. I put a choker 20' up and hooked the cable to it and put some slight tension to it or so I thought. i made the face cut then started my back cut 6" in it blew apart mostly due to rot and the tension from the cable but it still went where I wanted it to. Anyway I am no pro by a long shot and cutting rot is dangerous as all get out just my 2 cents

Had mine been rotten it would have eaten my lunch! Luckily I got lucky, and we finished limbing/bucking/hauling/burning this afternoon.

 

[jrcat]

I left the stump of this maple about 3' high. They wanted to put bird feeders on it. LOL. Where can I get that book on falling techniques? Im starting on my first "big" job tomorrow ...lots of big red oak and cherry. I dont want to split them or barber chair them. Most of all I dont want to make myself dead. Dead seems to be a rather permanent medical condition.

 

[HuskStihl]

"professional tree falling". Douglas Dent. Got mine from baileys for around 10 bucks. Didn't make me a pro faller, but I understand 50% of the words now at least!

 

[jrcat]

Sounds like a good read. I will have to get that. Here in NY we have whats called GOL classes I want to take them as soon as I can. Then I can be put on the list of loggers at FORECON. Plus it helps with the insurance I think.

 

[ropensaddle]

I know how to cuss in amish lol

Levi lol Is that you?

 

[jrcat]

lol I can speak some of it .. but to spell it ...... I cant pick on the amish. I have some good amish friends. Some of them are loggers in varying degrees lol. One of them has has 4 timber jack 360's and one timber jack 380. He just recently sold a 208 I kind of wanted that but heard to many horror stories about them.

 

[tramp bushler]

I'm thinking you either have a wore out chain, which u said was n.I.b.for that tree, or you have a burr on the out side of the rails or wore out bar. New chains don't really cut very good.
LOOK UP. Ya don't get to when your dead so ya might as well when your alive. It'll help keep u fogging a mirror too.
KEEP YOUR THUMB WRAPPED AROUND THE HANDLE BAR.!!!!
For yard work, firewood falling. Make your stump 1 or 2 blocks high. . Cut them later. It just helps with the falling all around.
Try a 36" bar. They are good and accurate for falling and easier to deal with. A 28" is pretty short on a 385 . No offense Sam.
Use the sights on your saw. That's why they are there. Get right down and sight along them, don't just glance at them.
Like Shaun said, your face is what matters. Make it right. If your far side cuts aren't:lining up when the cuts come in to the sights. Go and vertically bore cut that side and knock the face out with an AX :greenchainsaw:

 

[tramp bushler]

12" wedges are what u want for that size tree. Get the cheep ones. U won't be as put out when u saw them up or break them off. With 3 , 12" wedges you can lift quite a tree. . Like Mad said, what u did by mistake worked for your good.
Don't let it happen again :::msp_w00t: just kiddin. :msp_biggrin:

 

[tramp bushler]

Oh. Two Chains, that's what we call Match Cutting. For 2 reasons. 1 if it works out everything looks great, and 2 if not your likely turning a good saw log into match sticks.
That's a for professional use only cut.
I've kept 2 trees in the air for a full tank of gas cutting for a stroker , match cutting in smaller size timber.

 

[bitzer]

Never saw this thread first time around. Anyway, don't cut under your swing side! You were swinging from left to right? Cut from the good or near side. Like everyone said that super deep face didn't give that tree a chance. As long as the wood was sound, gravity took over. A long bar tends to sag and will bind if not put into the tree right. Also pulling that much chain with that saw you may have to do a little reaming and chip clearing. Chips will bind er up quick. Like mentioned its better to come up short and bust yer face out rather than trying to meet cuts. As long as the cuts are in line vertically and not bypassed. Theres no shame in running from stumps. I do it every day. I like going home in the same condition I got there. Typically stem lean will trump top weight but not always. Usually a tree will chair with too narrow of a face. It stalls as it closes creating tremendous compression that has to be relieved, hence the split. Wide face or narrow with a snipe should keep that movement going. Also saw up as much compression wood as necessary. If you use a Dutchman don't leave any wood behind it. Make sure its totally cut off.

 

[056kid]

12" wedges are what u want for that size tree. Get the cheep ones. U won't be as put out when u saw them up or break them off. With 3 , 12" wedges you can lift quite a tree. . Like Mad said, what u did by mistake worked for your good.
Don't let it happen again :::msp_w00t: just kiddin. :msp_biggrin:

I used 6 12"ers to lift a bastard chestnut oak to drive a tree over that had my bar in the back cut.
I had them trippled up side by side and almost gone in the kerf before that ##### started to commit. The whole time the pull side is talking like its gonna bust off and the trees gonna go down hill which would have been fine if it weren't for the road and someone's junk down below.. Talk about wore out..

 

[tramp bushler]

Never saw this thread first time around. Anyway, don't cut under your swing side! You were swinging from left to right? Cut from the good or near side. Like everyone said that super deep face didn't give that tree a chance. As long as the wood was sound, gravity took over. A long bar tends to sag and will bind if not put into the tree right. Also pulling that much chain with that saw you may have to do a little reaming and chip clearing. Chips will bind er up quick. Like mentioned its better to come up short and bust yer face out rather than trying to meet cuts. As long as the cuts are in line vertically and not bypassed. Theres no shame in running from stumps. I do it every day. I like going home in the same condition I got there. Typically stem lean will trump top weight but not always. Usually a tree will chair with too narrow of a face. It stalls as it closes creating tremendous compression that has to be relieved, hence the split. Wide face or narrow with a snipe should keep that movement going. Also saw up as much compression wood as necessary. If you use a Dutchman don't leave any wood behind it.
sure its totally cut off.

I'm quoting this whole post. Cause most everyone ought to read it again. . And it shows that whether your on the east or west side, doing it right is doing it right.

 

[056kid]

I'm quoting this whole post. Cause most everyone ought to read it again. . And it shows that whether your on the east or west side, doing it right is doing it right.

Agreed, except I occasionally cut dutchmans from under the lean. Only when I have to..

I bet the air was blue lol........ya say things like gosh .......golly and please lovely tre will you please lift and fall.........or was it bleep bleep bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppp bleep thank bleep lol

Too worried and out of breath for anything other than huffing and puffing.

 

[HuskStihl]

Never saw this thread first time around. Anyway, don't cut under your swing side! You were swinging from left to right? Cut from the good or near side. Like everyone said that super deep face didn't give that tree a chance. As long as the wood was sound, gravity took over. A long bar tends to sag and will bind if not put into the tree right. Also pulling that much chain with that saw you may have to do a little reaming and chip clearing. Chips will bind er up quick. Like mentioned its better to come up short and bust yer face out rather than trying to meet cuts. As long as the cuts are in line vertically and not bypassed. Theres no shame in running from stumps. I do it every day. I like going home in the same condition I got there. Typically stem lean will trump top weight but not always. Usually a tree will chair with too narrow of a face. It stalls as it closes creating tremendous compression that has to be relieved, hence the split. Wide face or narrow with a snipe should keep that movement going. Also saw up as much compression wood as necessary. If you use a Dutchman don't leave any wood behind it. Make sure its totally cut off.

I'm quoting this whole post. Cause most everyone ought to read it again. . And it shows that whether your on the east or west side, doing it right is doing it right.

Thanks Bitzer,
I'll be careful to cut from the good side in the future. Also great explaination of how a barberchair works. The funny thing about amateurs, frequently something that is automatic to you guys is completely foreign to us. I wound up posting this in the middle of another thread in the chainsaw forum (I didn't want to post it there because I did not want to talk about my saw being the wrong color, the mods to my saw, the wax I use to polish my saw, the oil I use in my saw etc etc...) because a fellow texan said on there that this was probably a 24 inch tree, and in Texas we take size seriously. But, in that threat, Srcarr52 told me to start the cut with a long bar towards the tip, take the bend out of the bar (blade for noobs!), and only dawg in once you have a straight cut. If i had known this sooner, I would have saved you guys 5 minutes of face cutting nonsense, and probably had a better shot at making the top and bottom cuts meet where I wanted. Anyway, the time y'all have taken to help me has really made me feel welcome here. Thanks again,
jon

 

[madhatte]

Too worried and out of breath for anything other than huffing and puffing.

I HATE that feeling.