tree boring

[cashdan]

I am having a couple of trees cut down on my property, and the person who is doing it suggests he do a pencil-width boring on a nearby tree since it suffered some construction damage years back. Even though the scars seem to have healed, he says there could be some interior rot, and thinks it's worth doing since the procedure is relatively inexpensive. Question is whether this type of boring compromises a tree in any way. Thank, Sheldon

 

[appalachianarbo]

Do you have a picture of the trunk and root flare? Mechanical damage to the trunk does not necessarily equate to interior decay. You also say that there has been "healing." That's a great sign.

Boring to detect decay will open up a path for pathogens to enter into the interior, thereby possibly accelerating decay. Google "CODIT" or "Compartmentalization of Decay in Trees" for a more detailed explanation. You can use a rubber mallet to sound for a hollow interior, use exterior clues to determine if decay is present, or go with a more technical method (tree "radar").

Boring to say "Yup, this tree has decay" does not mean anything. If your tree guy knows enough to say "This tree has x amount of decay and x amount of solid wood, and this species is considered a hazard if it does not have x inches of solid wood around its trunk," then boring would mean more. If all he's going to do is drill into the tree and see if it has decay, then you might need to find another opinion (especially if he's the one selling you on removals).

Just because "the procedure is relatively inexpensive" doesn't mean it should be done.

 

[cashdan]

Tree boring 2

Many thanks for your prompt and detailed response. It was very enlightening. I've attached a few pictures of the trunk which, incidentally, measures two feet in diameter. I think the tree is a white Oak.
As you can see, the top scar has fully healed while the bottom scar which measures about 1" by 6" is still a bit open. The rest of the tree is clear. I probed the wound a bit and it didn't seem pulpy to me. The last photo magnifies the wound a bit and may provide a better view.
Once more, I appreciate your help.
Best, Shelly

P.S. Turns out I wasn't able to construct a URL on which to store the shots so they can be viewed. If you're comfortable sending me an email address to which I can send the shots, I'd be happy to send them along. My email is mail][email protected][/email].

 

[arbor pro]

My old forestry professor taught me how to bore trees to check for decay but, it was only done in extreme cases when rot was evident and there was a scientific process for doing so and calculating the amount of dead wood vs holding wood.

At that time, it was determined that, if a tree is already showing significant signs of rot that boring into it to do a decay test wouldn't compromise it any further because it's already been compromised to the point that it raises a safety concern.

I don't know if I would suggest doing such to a tree recovering from construction damage unless there were symptoms of decay. Of course, the best inobtrusive way to check for decay is to contact a local university and see if they have a resistograph available.

 

[appalachianarbo]

I don't see any pictures.

Of course, the best inobtrusive way to check for decay is to contact a local university and see if they have a resistograph available.

A resistograph uses a drill bit to probe and creates a wound. Tree radar is unobtrusive, using sound to calculate decay.

Probing into the decay itself (without going through healthy tissue) can be OK, but it will not tell you how much solid wood exists around the trunk.

 

[RedlineIt]

cashdan,

Your pics aren't showing up yet.

You're getting good responses here, I'll add my two-bits.

Yes a resistograph uses a drill bit to probe, but it's not "pencil-width", much smaller diameter, and a competent operator should be able to determine the ratio of sound wood to decay wood using one.

By saying his probe would be "pencil-width" not even "pencil-diameter", this sounds like your tree-guy (Arborist??..Hmmm...) is going to vertical bore with a chainsaw! If that's the case he will learn nothing of value, damage the tree and you don't want him around, don't let him do it.

Boring for decay with a chainsaw is done only when the tree is already a done deal for removal and the climber wants a quick and dirty read on presence of decay.

Hope I'm wrong, but I've seen it done, used as a sales tool to frighten the home-owner into buying a removal, and this one smells just a bit like that to me.


RedlineIt

 

[cashdan]

Tree boring 3 (hope this isn't getting too boring)

Many thanks for your prompt and detailed response. It was very enlightening. I've attached a few pictures of the trunk which, incidentally, measures two feet in diameter. I think the tree is a white Oak.
As you can see, the top scar has fully healed while the bottom scar which measures about 1" by 6" is still a bit open. The rest of the tree is clear. I probed the wound a bit and it didn't seem pulpy to me. The last photo magnifies the wound a bit and may provide a better view.
Once more, I appreciate your help.
Best, Shelly

P.S. Turns out I wasn't able to construct a URL on which to store the shots so they can be viewed. If you're comfortable sending me an email address to which I can send the shots, I'd be happy to send them along. My email is mail][email protected][/email].

 

[ATH]

.....
By saying his probe would be "pencil-width" not even "pencil-diameter", this sounds like your tree-guy (Arborist??..Hmmm...) is going to vertical bore with a chainsaw! If that's the case he will learn nothing of value, damage the tree and you don't want him around, don't let him do it.
.......
RedlineIt

That is a scary thought - I hope this is not the plan!

I was assuming they were going to use an increment borer.

This is a slightly more intrusive way to test than a resistograph-but a far cry from a chainsaw bore. Increment corer and resistograph each have advantages and disadvantages. With an increment core, you can actually see what is going on, rather than just measuing how hard it is for the drill bit to turn. The increment core should be much cheaper than a resistograph. In fact, if you have already paid for a consultation, I would expect the increment core to not be an extra charge. The resistograph is a much more expensive piece of equipment, so I would expect a separate charge for that.

If you really want to keep the tree, a professional very may well need more information before he is willing to verbalize that it is "safe" to leave. If he is unsure, it would be most wise of him to recommend removal...

 

[appalachianarbo]

If he is unsure, it would be most wise of him to recommend removal...

...and it would be most wise of you to get a second opinion from someone who is competent enough to be sure.

in fact, if you have already paid for a consultation, I would expect the increment core to not be an extra charge. The resistograph is a much more expensive piece of equipment, so I would expect a separate charge for that.

Agreed...but this doesn't sound like there was a consultation. it sounds like the tree cutter (note the word 'arborist' not used) might be drumming up some more business...

 

[appalachianarbo]

Here are Shelly's pictures...

 

[appalachianarbo]

One more...

 

[appalachianarbo]

There probably is some decay inside the tree, but like I said before, that doesn't mean removal is warranted. There has also been a grade change (possible when the original damage was done?). How does the rest of the tree look? Any dieback?

I'd begin with a mallet sounding and an excavation of the root flare for an inspection. If you've already probed the decayed area, and it doesn't seem deep or extensive, then it's a good possibility that it's not.

 

[cashdan]

Thanks for posting the pictures. The rest of the tree looks fine with no observable die back. I'll follow your advice and expose the root flare to see if anything is going on...but not right away. The temp here (MA) has soared into the 90s and is expected to stay that way for a while. I think, though, I can manage a bit of thumping with a mallet. If I get some tapping back, I think I'll stop watching horror movies.
Have a good weekend.
Shelly

 

[Toddppm]

Not sure about the Oak( doesn't look like a White oak trunk though?) but your Hemlock looks like it's loaded with Wooly Adelgid!

 

[RUBE]

Are the edges of the leaves round or are they pointed cause it looks like red oak bark but I'm not from around NC sooo....but the differance in decay between white and reds is large.

A very thin, long drill bit and cordless drill will work for finding decay. After ya drill a few you get a "feel" for it and look at the bit for white or dark drillings. Follow up with some bees wax.

Not to raise another issue but as somebody else noticed(good job) the grade change. You may want to search Armillaria mellea as well.

 

[appalachianarbo]

your Hemlock looks like it's loaded with Wooly Adelgid!

Actually, it's infested with scale. No adelgid to be seen (I zoomed in on the originals). Scale causes the yellow stippling thats seen on the needles in the picture. Not deadly, but does stress the tree.

 

[booboo]

A pic of the whole tree and its setting would be helpful.

The tree appears to have a robust growth rate and you say there is no dieback so even though there has been fill on one side and some old damage, it seems to be in good condition. Do some research on CODIT. I see no reason for any kind of invasive check of decay. Even though there will be a decay column in the tree, there appears to be plenty of sound wood around it and I don't think it would be wise at all to create a wound in the healthy wood. The tree appears to have almost completely compartmentalized the old wound and should be very sound. As long as the tree isn't hanging over any high value targets, it would be best to recognize that there is some decay present and focus your efforts on maintaining the vigor of the tree. Perhaps some very careful removal of some of the fill may be appropriate, especially if it extends out to the drip line, but you would need to be careful not to damage the root system. A rubber mallet may help give an idea of the extent of the decay but I would not drill.

Also, it looks like a red oak, not white. There are some very capable and professional arborists in the Amherst area. I know because that's where I cut my teeth in the industry. Also, the Shade Tree Lab through Cooperative Extension at UMass is a valuable resource.

My .02

 

[turnkey4099]

...

P.S. Turns out I wasn't able to construct a URL on which to store the shots so they can be viewed. If you're comfortable sending me an email address to which I can send the shots, I'd be happy to send them along. My email is mail][email protected][/email].

photobucket.com is a good, free site for storing and sharing pictures.

Harry K

 

[cashdan]

Thanks

Thanks to all those who responded to my query. The answers proved very helpful...and enlightening. As of now I've decided to forgo the boring and expose the root flare a bit to give the tree a bit more breathing room at its base. As for scale or agelid, there isn't much I can do about that since I live in a heavily wooded area with a zillion pines, and spraying a few trees, I fear, would be like
pissing in the ocean.

 

[arbor pro]

Let's change this thread to 'tree exciting'...

Every time I come upon this thread, the title, 'tree boring', throws me for a loop. I can't help but think, "tree work isn't boring, it's exciting. In the very least, it's marginally interesting but, cetainly never boring"...