Trouble with new stove

[dsmoke]

I bought a new EPA stove an Empire archway 1700 insert about a month ago and am having a hard time getting it to heat very well.

It’s installed in fireplace with 20ft SS liner. It doesn’t seem to be an issue with draft. I am able to get fires going no problem and don’t have any smoke in the house.

I’m burning seasoned hedge wood and seem to be getting good hot fires but oddly the stove doesn’t seem to get hot. Most of the time it operates around 350 -400.

I spoke to the retail guy and he thinks I’m not getting good secondary combustion. How can you tell if you are getting a secondary? He said the tubes should glow and look a gas burner which they do not.

Ive tried playing with the damper - Loading onto a coal bed I’ll leave the door cracked until I have a good fire. I’ll shut it up and try closing the damper some, halfway, all the way, but I don’t ever get any different results.

I’m actually able to heat better by building up the fire then leaving the door open.

Any advice on how I can operate this thing better would be much appreciated. Bit frustrated so far trying to get this working considering what I have into it.

Thanks

 

[ElevatorGuy]

You’re talking about the intake damper not exhaust right? Never heard of hedgewood before, is that a soft or hard wood?

 

[dsmoke]

You’re talking about the intake damper not exhaust right? Never heard of hedgewood before, is that a soft or hard wood?

Yeah intake. It doesn’t have an exhaust damper.

Hedge or Osage orange it’s a hardwood the best firewood you can burn.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

10-4, Never heard it called hedge before. My stove doesn’t ignite the cat until the stove is 450° and up with good coals. Doesn’t sound like you’re getting to that point.

 

[ericm979]

Is your wood under 20% moisture? EPA stoves need dry wood. The drier the better. When I tried wood that was too wet it was hard to get going and did not make all that much heat.

With my EPA (non cat) stove I need to leave the air control open until all the wood is burning or charred, then I can close down the air control. Lots of flames should be coming from the secondaries by this time, and continue after closing the air down. When it's really cranking the fire box is full of roiling flames like a portal to hell.

If I leave the air control open the fire burns well but the stove does not get as hot. It's because there is too much air flow and it's taking heat with it. The best heat is with the air control shut down.

But I think your problem is the wood is not dry enough. The denser the wood the longer it takes to dry.

 

[dsmoke]

Is your wood under 20% moisture? EPA stoves need dry wood. The drier the better. When I tried wood that was too wet it was hard to get going and did not make all that much heat.

With my EPA (non cat) stove I need to leave the air control open until all the wood is burning or charred, then I can close down the air control. Lots of flames should be coming from the secondaries by this time, and continue after closing the air down. When it's really cranking the fire box is full of roiling flames like a portal to hell.

If I leave the air control open the fire burns well but the stove does not get as hot. It's because there is too much air flow and it's taking heat with it. The best heat is with the air control shut down.

But I think your problem is the wood is not dry enough. The denser the wood the longer it takes to dry.

I don’t have a moisture meter but I can’t imagine what I’m burning is to wet. It’s been cut laying for several years. If it’s not seasoned enough I don’t know where I’ll ever find wood that is! I guess I’ll have to go buy meter to be sure cause I keep getting asked if my wood is dry enough and I want to be sure. Been burning wood my entire life and never needed a meter but this stove has me questioning my sanity at this point.

Appreciate the input

 

[thclimer]

When you say "It’s been cut laying for several years" do you mean the tree was cut and laying as a full length log on the ground for several years? Or was it cut into 16-18" lengths and split drying for several years? 12" diameter by 18" length rounds of red oak which have been split into 3-4 pieces will take almost 2 years to dry. I'm guessing your hedge wood, which is harder than red oak is not dry enough.

Try taking some scrap killen dried lumber like 2x4's or split 2x6's and try burning them. They will not last long but I'll bet you'll get your stove up to temp pretty quick.

 

[dsmoke]

When you say "It’s been cut laying for several years" do you mean the tree was cut and laying as a full length log on the ground for several years? Or was it cut into 16-18" lengths and split drying for several years? 12" diameter by 18" length rounds of red oak which have been split into 3-4 pieces will take almost 2 years to dry. I'm guessing your hedge wood, which is harder than red oak is not dry enough.

Try taking some scrap killen dried lumber like 2x4's or split 2x6's and try burning them. They will not last long but I'll bet you'll get your stove up to temp pretty quick.

I’m talking like been on the ground for maybe 10 years or more. But no not cut up. In fact I have burned some fence post I pulled recently that have been in the ground for 50 years. I really don’t think my wood is wet but I am going to buy a meter to know for sure.

I also try burning some scrap lumber to to see what kind of temps I can get.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

I’d bet even laying for 10 years whole, not split it’s still too wet for the epa stove. I’ve had 2 year old split and stacked oak still sizzle.

Had a party here last Friday and some buddies overloaded my solo stove fire pit. Just about went out, I threw a few small splits of 4 years old locust in it and my buddies were shocked how hot it got. Hard or soft woods have to be dry to burn right.

My wood stove easily hits over 600° and the solo stove burns great when fed right too. Gotta be dry for them to burn well.

 

[farmer steve]

I’m talking like been on the ground for maybe 10 years or more. But no not cut up. In fact I have burned some fence post I pulled recently that have been in the ground for 50 years. I really don’t think my wood is wet but I am going to buy a meter to know for sure.

I also try burning some scrap lumber to to see what kind of temps I can get.

Hedge being one of the yellow woods along with locust and mulberry will take close to 3 years C/S/S to be dry enough for your stove.

 

[ericm979]

Usually when I cut up logs that have been laying on the ground they're not much drier than a fresh cut log. Every once in a while I run into one that's dry but it's rare. And that's with a six month dry season where it doesn't rain.

EPA stoves don't work well with wet wood but once you get ahead on the wood they work great. They get more heat out of the wood and don't emit much smoke. Many of my wood species dry enough in one year after being split and stacked. The dense ones like live oak and eucalyptus need two.

My quick check for dry enough is to whack two splits together. If they make a hollow clank they're dry. If its a thud they're wet.

 

[mijdirtyjeep]

You don’t really need to buy a meter. Simple way to tell of wood is dry, is to split the wood. Then grab the split and place the fresh cut side to your cheek. If it feels wet, it’s probably wet.

 

[mijdirtyjeep]

As far as running your stove, here is how I run my insert that has secondaries is as follows.

1st get the fire going good with help from the door. Intake full open as well.

2nd once the fire is going (about 20min) I close the intake down to 50%. Then sit back for a bit and let it burn some more.

3rd once it’s been going for a while I shut the intake down to 25% open. It will sit there and cruise for a long time.

Running it at 25% or just a little less it has no issue with reigniting a load over 12hrs later

 

[husky455rancher]

If you have secondary burn tubes I don’t think you have a cat. I have one stove of each. The secondary burn tube stove runs different from the catted one. The tubes will glow and look like a propane grill flame tube when it really gets ripping. Your simply not getting the fire hot enough. I would also let it run a bit with the door cracked. Leave your air wide open for a while. I suspect your closing it down too fast. Each stove takes time to learn how to make it work best. Trial and error. If you don’t have a meter after the fires been going a bit open the door and listen if the wood is sizzling. After a while you’ll know when you pick the piece up if it’s good or not haha.

 

[Del_]

EPA wood stoves like really dry wood!

 

[dsmoke]

Well it definitely passes the cheek test not sure how I can get any dryer wood.

I can get the stove to get to 500 maybe 550 at times but I’ve never seen the tubes glow or burn like a burner. I’m still going to go buy a meter so I can stop being told my wood is too wet. Hell maybe I’m a dumbass and it is…

At this point I just don’t think I’m going to be able to get as much as I anticipated out of this stove.

Appreciate all the help from everyone nice little community guys got here.

 

[9050lx]

Is your wood under 20% moisture? EPA stoves need dry wood. The drier the better. When I tried wood that was too wet it was hard to get going and did not make all that much heat.

With my EPA (non cat) stove I need to leave the air control open until all the wood is burning or charred, then I can close down the air control. Lots of flames should be coming from the secondaries by this time, and continue after closing the air down. When it's really cranking the fire box is full of roiling flames like a portal to hell.

If I leave the air control open the fire burns well but the stove does not get as hot. It's because there is too much air flow and it's taking heat with it. The best heat is with the air control shut down.

But I think your problem is the wood is not dry enough. The denser the wood the longer it takes to dry.

Yeah My- Oslo 400 makes a nice looking portal to hell with secondaries.

 

[thclimer]

There is also a huge difference in the amount of heat a stove insert will produce compared to a wood stove which sits on legs surrounded by free air space. I'm sure someone has done the math but it would not surprise me if you can get twice as much heat out of free standing wood stove verses a fireplace insert. However, the wood stove certainly does take up more space from your room but that is the compromise for getting more heat from it.

 

[husky455rancher]

There is also a huge difference in the amount of heat a stove insert will produce compared to a wood stove which sits on legs surrounded by free air space. I'm sure someone has done the math but it would not surprise me if you can get twice as much heat out of free standing wood stove verses a fireplace insert. However, the wood stove certainly does take up more space from your room but that is the compromise for getting more heat from it.

I agree if possible I would always use a free standing stove. I use my insert at the beginning and end of the season. Very little of the entire season. That thing is a useless toy in comparison to the blazeking I have in my unfinished basement. All I do is take my cellar door off and let the heat make its way up. I don’t use a blower or fan on the blazeking at all either.

 

[PA. Woodsman]

I would split a piece and take it to a local stove shop to have them check the moisture content if they have a meter, just to see what it is.