Ugly cottonwood

[rbtree]

Check out this black cottonwood that I looked at for Dave, the guy who felled that 146 foot fir with me. It is in a low class part of town, the customer offered to pay only $1000, only wanted it topped. Dave said it had to be brought down to 30 feet at least, and poisoned. He has to go back and tell him that our bottom price is $2000. And that will be low, here's why:

About 80 feet tall and wide, poor structure. 5-6 foot butt with two smaller leaders going out to back of tree, over old shed and two other yards. Two larger leaders have a 10 degree lean off vertical. One 45 foot long 10 inch breakaout hung up. Typical weak cottonwood for rigging. Likely 20-25 yards of chips, maybe more- we can chip overflow on site. Customer wanted no haul, but we need to get the stuff our of our way to work, so chipping will be easier. We'll need to use the Hobbs, or maybe my Saw powered capstan winch to raise up the long laterals on to a speed line. Then bring in our cheap boom truck guy for the worst stuff. And we have to cut down a 30 foot tall pear to get the chipper closer and the boom truck in. We could use the boom for more of the job, might not be a bad idea, as he only costs $85 per hour, 205 min for 2 hours. Even so, it would be hard to do the job in one day with four guys plus the boom. Only good thing is the lateral stuff is big but not huge.

Havent a clue if the guy will spring for the money, I didnt meet him. 2500-3000 would be better, but no way less than 1800-2000. I dont mind low prices sometimes, as I like the challenge, and photo opportunities.

What do you guys think, and what would you try to get for $?

As usual, the pics dont show all the difficulties...which are considerable, but not extreme.

 

[rbtree]

Fist pic was from several houses away, showing the breakout, if you look closely.

This one is from the front yard.

 

[rbtree]

Now, if the tree was in this yard,and we could get equipment to the back yard, we could get 4000 bucks easy. This place was just built two years ago, for a top exec at Microsoft. It is on a small lot in the pricey part of Seattle with a fabulous view. so I'll bet it is worth $6-10 million.

 

[treeclimber165]

Looks lika a LOT of tree, Rog. The good part is that it looks like you can bomb a good bit of it in the back yard. How small of a crotch can you tie in to on a cottonwood? From the pictures, it looks like you have a couple excellent tieoffs about 4"-5" diameter. Even without much roping, it looks like a LOT of volume.

 

[Stumper]

Pictures never seem to do the big 'uns justice-the longer I walk around under one the worse they get! Based on your pics and description I would probably decline to bid ( I'm a one man op with 1 guy I can call on for help with lowering stuff occassionally.) I looked at a similar( but bigger!?!) cottonwood a couple of years ago after it was lightening struck. ( surveyed the damage and advised that it would probably survive okay) They called me back a month ago to remove a BIG hanger that had dropped and hung over the neighbor's yard. Customer told me that another outfit had advised 2 years ago that it was about to die, $8000 for removal----more than the elderly lady paid for the house umpteen years ago!

P.S. I consider Black Cottonwoods the best of the breed- which, unfourtunately, ain't sayin' much!

 

[Reed]

Jee wizz JB, ya sure like to challenge yerself. Kinda a good thing too because someone's gotta do it if no one else will.

I don't have anything against cottonwoods - beautiful trees when they're along streambanks in Nebraska or South Dakota or Northern New Mexico but they remind me of floodplains. People should either not build under them or plant them anywhere near people places.

I can't suggest anything regarding the pricing or whether you take the job or not - the client's ability to pay and how much you're willing to dicker down seems to be the deciding factor but this much I can tell you - knowing you guys you'll probably do it. It's like my wife used to be years ago when someone would "dare" her to do something, she had to do it then.

 

[Stumper]

I agree totally Oakwilt. I LIKE cottonwoods in naturally settings-but they are an awful choice for around a dwelling or other structure.

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[rbtree]

Brian,

There is an old shed right under the tree, that gives us a pretty small drop zone. Those two leaders arent too hard, but even them require some tip tying and rigging stuff up. Only the easy stuff on those two can be dropped, all the rest on them and the rest of the tree must be rigged or craned. Some could drop into the neighbors, but that would add to cleanup time. Both of those two do offer convenient rigging points. (But not the best tie-in points for access to the back and the hanger, which will have to tied in two spots, with throw line.

And the structural strength is dubious, so no slam dunking for sure. But that should be no problem, as the wood can be free dropped, and the limbs, while long are not huge. So we may not bother to guy the four (or was it five) intact leaders together.

Cottonwoods really can be bad, for sure, and I've never done one this wide. So, I'm thinking using the boom to do say half of the limb work instead of just the really hard stuff might make sense and be a lot faster. Besides, Mike only charges $85 per hr. The time saved would free up two to three men to do other stuff.

 

[rbtree]

Craig,

we can get the 86 foot, 17 ton boom truck in, by cutting down a pear tree. And that is all that is needed.

Hopefully the neighbor will offer to chip in some $. He may share ownership anyhow, and the customer will probably freak when he hears the price.

Well, I gotta fly to do a Sunday job- an hour's drive away, pretty easy, a 100 foot tall spindly hemlock and a smal dead cedar. Then go check out 12 firs that can be felled, for the guy who is helping today.(And supplying his diesel truck and chipper as the fuel costs will be a lot less) Small ones, but maybe the wood is worth $1000, and that will be our pay.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Get an 85ton crane in and pick the top out in 3-4 peices.

Oh, with the travel time and traffic out there the crene would probably cost a grand in it'self.

 

[DDM]

Tell himhe can have the deal of the week!!!!! for 500.00 he can have the Top Repositioned to the top of his Roof.

 

[rbtree]

DDM....


...we considered that...


here's a pic from today's work, I'll start another thread

a quickie job- 100 foot 16 inch dbh hemlock, and dead cedar. $570, 2.5 hrs for the two of us, plus 45 min travel each way.

 

[rbtree]

pic didnt take, try again:

 

[bighugetrees]

I might say $800 to the client's delight, then get mad when it takes three times as long to complete the job. Learning to keep the bids higher. I've given away too much work.

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

When guys say they gotta work and and keep the crews so they low bid stuff, I ask what they "NEED" for a days expenses. That is your daily minimum.

It is suprising the number of people who don't know this. Payroll, fuel, equipment, lead-running time, collection and billing expenses, let's not forget all the different insurance needs we have.

Then you gotta pay yourself, one cannot say that your profit is your pay. At least pay yourself a small wage/salery. you can bonus yourself from the proffits.

Then pay your wife for keeping the books, the kids for keeping the trucks clean, it is all a write-off, but tell your insurance they are office staff.

I guess where I'm going with this is that intensionaly lowballign because you need the work is self dilusional.

Becuase you want a job may be another story, price it out to a learning experiance. There is another thread.

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[rbtree]

David is the man!! He landed the job for $2175. Not bad, methinx! Of course he will deserve a good part of that, but I still should clear 1000-1100 for myself and the equipment after labor and crane costs. Piddly for ~1.5 days work, but no problem as long as all goes well.

It will be a couple weeks before we get to it, but I'll be sure to post pix.

Hey, spikey,ya bum. Come on out and do 'er in 5 hrs, if ya can find a $99 roundtripper on the ole DC-3!! And bring that swiss snow (or wuz it cheese) with ya

 

[rborist1]

:Eye: