Wearing chaps

[jsirbasku]

After reading another post on PPE, someone had questioned the ability of chaps to actually stop a turning chain. Sidestepping from that a little, my question to my fellow arbos is this. How many of you who actually climb everyday and who also cut on the ground take the time to put on chaps. Do you bend this rule for a couple of quick cuts or do you strongly adhere to the standard of ALWAYS having leg protection on while cutting on the ground.

If you are not a climber whose activities are aloft and on ground please refrain from responding, it is not cumbersome at all for someone who works and cuts on the ground all day long to simply put chaps on once in the morning and remove them in the evening. But what about someone who works aloft for 1-2 hours then works the ground for 20 minutes then goes aloft agian and so on and so on. I realize that another option is chainsaw pants, but at nearly 100 bucks a pair i cannot see purchasing enough pairs to have a clean (not smelly, or oil stained) pair for everyday of the week.
Writing this brings up another question to mind, what about running a chipper, wouldn't chaps be considered loose fitting clothing which is very likely to get snagged while operating a chipper. If so, which is safer, operating a chipper with chaps on or off? What about when you need to cut that wide crotch that the feed wheels cannot pull in? Would you then stop to put on your chaps to make a cut ( I think not, 9 out of 10 people will bend the rule and simply cut).
I will be totally honest here, I do not wear leg protection at all!!
Or at least not yet, since ANSI standards have been recently revised, I have made honest efforts to comply with the new standards except for this one. I know it is safer to use them, but because of the reasons above, I find this to be the most difficult new standard to comply with.

No lectures here please about PPE, i am well aware of the requirements. Just want some honest feedback from other climbers.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Chaps dont fit, I got some saw pant's made, but they dont fit quite right.

I think I want to try to find some saw bibs I could just step into when I'm bucking and limbing.

 

[treeclimber165]

Not only have I never worn chaps or saw pants, I've never even seen a pair in real life. I've seen pictures of them.

The Florida heat would make something that heavy impractical in real life use. If a person were to actually wear chaps here, they would be passed out from heat exhaustion halfway through the day. I've never met anyone here that was willing to even consider chaps. It's hard enough convincing people to wear long pants while using saws.

I can't answer the poll with the chioces provided. I have never worn chaps but do not think chaps are for sissies. If I could wear them without drastically reducing my ability to perform my job, I would. Temps in the 90's and 70% or higher humidity pretty much eliminate anyone getting rich selling chaps in FL.

 

[Tim Gardner]

I have a brand new pair of chaps rolled up right next to my gear. I do not wear them while I am working. Maybe I would if they made chap shorts. I have had my pants nipped three times in my life by a saw and the locations were the same. Just below my front pockets. One by a chain flying off the bar, second while in the back of the dump truck cutting brush down and the third and most scary nip by a groundie that liked to hold the throttle full while spinning around. They still can’t find him.

 

[FBerkel]

Amen on the too hot observation, 165.

I guess there's some chance that I'll hit my leg some day, but it seems more probable that I'll hit my wrist, or face.

I find it ironic that these pics of Arbormaster types always show them climbing with chaps, but never any more protection for their faces than a pair of safety glasses. And the saw, in these pics, is always pretty close to the face.

Wouldn't it be more realistic to mandate face protection? Most hardhats can be adapted to hold a retractable mesh screen.

 

[coydog]

i had a wakeup call a couple months back when my groundie nicked his ankle, iwas not requiring chaps. thank God it was minor and thank you to everyone on this forum who gave me flak about it. to be honest i have never seen anyone on any crews i've worked wear them and have only very rarely observed them. i was recently hired by a company in Oregon and will be moving there soon. They told me they require chaps on the ground, they also include aerial rescue as part of their training and will pay for any continuing education related to arboriculture, as well as isa certification.

 

[herschel]

Well, I do wear my chaps for all chain saw work and on cool days, I wear my chain saw pants.

I've had 2 chains jump off of my big saws and hit me in the crotch. (My crotch, not a tree crotch.) I had chaps on both times and I still get chills imaging the mess I might have been in.

Would you pay $100 to prevent a chain going 1000+ rpm chewing up your testes?

That's money well spent.

It's a minor inconvience to put them on, if you think about the alternative.

But doesn't everyone think that it will never happen to them?

 

[Acer]

We're supposed to wear chainsaw trousers whenever we operate a chainsaw - design A front of leg protection only for ground workers, design C all round leg protection for climbers. I always wear design C trousers if I'm using the saw. If I know I'm doinfg only light pruning, using a Silky and no chainsaw, I won't bother.. Most people do here, even the cowboys! I know we don't get the heat here, but I still struggle in the Summer. I start sweating the minute I put them on. The pair I've got at the minute, Husqvarna's, are especially bad - can't wait for them to wear out.

I might get chaps next time, because you can put them on and off quickly as required. Some jobs, I only need the saw for an hour or 2. Also, my chainsaw trousers always wear out just above the protection, at the back or at the crotch. They start to rip, and sewing them up does no good because they rip again a little higher. The non protected material simply isn't strong ebnough for the weight of the protective layers. Chaps wouldn't have that problem.

 

[Stumper]

I'm with 165 on the heat factor. I like chaps when it's cold- saves some pain fron getting smacked with twigs etc. I used to climb in chaps quite a bit when I was removing a lot of pines(saved me britches ). My most frequent warm weather use of chaps has been while stump grinding. Frankly I haven't worn mine in several months-they got oil soaked and the weather got hot so they've been languishing in the tool box.

 

[Jumper]

Pants

We had a couple of days here last summer where the humidex hit 115 F and I thought I was going to die with my chain saw pants on, in fact after day one I wore a bathing suit as gotch and peeled my pants off at lunch and break to cool down-one day at the beach closeby. A lto of climbers here do wear chainsaw pants while climbing-most companies give you very little choice in the matter because of the OSH regs.

 

[xander9727]

It all comes down to relative comfort. Would you rather sweat on the job or be comfortable in a hopital bed with a pca pump. I'm a climber and if I'm running a chainsaw I wear chaps. In the summer its hot and I sweat alot more because of them. So I wear a camel bak with ice water in it to compensate. 165, if I can survive the desert in full military gear then I know you can survive florida in chaps. The transition would be the hardest part. Once you set your mind to the fact that you wear chaps you'll be suprised how fast your body will adjust. I know there are people who have gone from the cradle to the grave with chain saws and never received as much as a nick. However, I feel they are the the exception and truly blessed. The facts are the more you use a saw the greater your chances are of an accidental contact injury. It may only take a bandaid or a few stiches to fix but even those would be better avoided. For me it is the possibility of loosing a limb that motivates me to wear chaps. I want to be able to play with my children and live a normal life as would anyone else. I have had several brushes with death that have made me appreciate life in a whole new way. With 5 broken vertebrae, a fused wrist and a hip and knee that need to be replaced I really want to minimize the risk at this point in my life. Don't even bring up the "why do you climb trees"? I get enough of that from the Mrs. At least it's safer than my last job and I didn't take the crab fishing job in Alaska either. I'm not trying to be preachy I am just giving my opinion with the reasoning behind it.
My 2 cents.

 

[Stumper]

No argument with your choice Xander. I appreciate the way you closed your post " I'm not trying to be preachy I am just giving my opinion with the reasoning behind it.
My 2 cents."
The issue is complicated. If a person wears all of the recommended safety gear it MAY create a dangerous condition. It is extremely difficult to stay hydrated in hot ,humid conditions. If partial dehydration caused by safety gear results in impaired judgement is it safer? That sounds like an excuse to dump everything safety related-something I oppose. I do think that some latitude is needed for each individual to make an INFORMED judgement call. The best safety gear is good judgement. - My 2 cents.

 

[mowdenver]

I don't wear them because I don't own a pair- wouldn't say or think you're a sissy for using them

 

[underwor]

Do chaps really stop a saw? YES!!! One of the few times I remembered to put mine on, outside of class, I was cutting off a stump, holding the O30 Stihl left handed, instead of right as designed, 18" bar with carbide chain, saw kicked out hit my Husky Chaps that I received during Arbormaster training for instructors in Charlotte. Distance from stump to upper thigh about 10". It went through 2 of the 5 layers of nylon and locked up solid. Took about 1/2 hour to untangle. By then I had stopped shaking. Wish I could say I learned something and wear chaps at all times, but I am old and set in my ways. I did not get a new scar to match the one on the underside of forearm, received holding a Mac 6 one handed leaning over a fence cutting lilac branch.

If you see me cutting without chaps, chew me out as my students do, please.

Bob

 

[TREETX]

I will use them any time temperatures here are cool enough to permit use.

Nice to see all of the people saying they can handle the heat live in Canada, N. Dakota, Ohio, or Wisconsin. By the comments, you have no clue - none. No idea of what it is like to work when it is already 90F by 8:30 am. No, we don't wear chaps, we use good judgement. There are more arborists in Austin than any other city in Texas and I have never seen anyone wearing chaps. Never even heard of it. That includes Asphlunde and Davey. Here the actual temperature can get up to 112.

When working in a northen climate in the snow, yes I wear chaps or pants - they are warm and coozy.

Arboriculture is like forestry in the way that there is no room for blanket prescriptions. In some situations, chaps would just be more dangerous - that is a fact.

No matter how strong you are and how much you drink, you can't beat heat exhaustion if you are bustin a$$ working in thick, bulky gear. That includes you desert cammandos.

Instead of arguing wear or not, how about some one making thinner, more breatheable safety pants.

Not being preachy, just stating the way things are.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Sure it's hot Tex, but it's a dry heat. Everyone knows it's the not the heat, it's the humidity.

What I do when it's hot, is to wear chaps, but nothing else.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I don't snow up here all the time. We get several weeks of high 90's with humidity near saturation. By the time we aclimate the temps get down to a more bareable level.

I won't berate a person for not wearing them in the heat, cuz I've been known to work sans helmet when it gets near 100*. I figure doing simple pruning with a handsaw im more likely to have heat stroke then struck by.

Hot is hot is hot, I weigh my risks and act acordingly.

I worked without glasses once, and have regretted it ever since.

 

[TREETX]

I tried that too Mike but lonely house wives sticking ones and fives in my belt got to be a hazard.

Don't mean to jump up and down about chaps but I hate this attitude that English policies make the world England.

Every situation is different, why have a blanket policy just so people have a good excuse not to use proper judgement?:angel:

If bulk and not temp is the question, have you tried the overalls? I have climbed and moved a bunch of brush wearing them. Of course it was snowing.

 

[xander9727]

Originally posted by TREETX


"Nice to see all of the people saying they can handle the heat live in Canada, N. Dakota, Ohio, or Wisconsin. By the comments, you have no clue - none."

First unless you know everyone on this site don't tell us, specifically me what I know or don't know.

"No, we don't wear chaps, we use good judgement. "

Is this like not wearing a seatbelt because your a good driver?

"There are more arborists in Austin than any other city in Texas and I have never seen anyone wearing chaps. Never even heard of it. That includes Asphlunde and Davey."

There isn't one member of the tree industry in Austin that complies with ANSI standards?

"In some situations, chaps would just be more dangerous - that is a fact."

Please give 3 or 4 examples of this.

"No matter how strong you are and how much you drink, you can't beat heat exhaustion if you are bustin a$$ working in thick, bulky gear. That includes you desert cammandos."

How did those guys in full MOPP gear in Desert Storm stay alive?

"Instead of arguing wear or not, how about some one making thinner, more breatheable safety pants. Not being preachy, just stating the way things are.

Your "Preaching" to the choir! Chaps are a breathable alternative to pants.

 

[TREETX]

Lets see for starters, how about the situation where you die from heat exhaustion.

According to your seatbelt analogy, you wear chaps because you are afraid of other chainsaw users? If you say no, do us a favor and don't drive if you lack that much confidence in yourself.

I see you want to argue, this is not the place

I said by your comments you have no clue, none. I didn't say I knew what everyone does/does not know. I think your last comments just pushed my point on home - you have NO CLUE!!

You know it all if that is what you want to hear. I hope you feel better and sleep well.

Bring yer chaps and pants down here and work for a day. You would not make it. That is a promise.

I really get sick of you know-it-alls. Give yer opinion but respect others.