Well arborist game just for fun

[ropensaddle]

I was thinking with such a wealth of knowledge and experience we could start a game on topics related to our practice. A question and answer game if you will and after sufficiently answering one topic we could move to the next by someone posting another quiz type question. I have to admit it is a bit selfishly motivated, in the fact that I am wishing to stay abreast and learn new things. I can read them in my books but I seem to get more motivated through brain picking with many of you here

I will give the first question and if you think its lame just say so and move to another topic of discussion. There really are no winner's just participants willing and maybe wanting to tease their knowledge. If no one wants to play after a day or so I will delete this thread so here goes.



Question: Why is pest control many times better left untreated?

 

[ropensaddle]

The pest is not a significant problem.
Treatment kills beneficials.
Treatment exposes applicator to chemicals.
Treatment exposes homeowner to chemicals.
Treatment exposes environment to chemicals.
Expense.


My question:

Why don't we see more trees in the landscape but instead see so much lawn worshiping.?

I will answer some of that but will let someone else finish and give next question.

Opinion:
Improper outreach to educated customer base
Fear; some founded,some hype
Views; either from or to property
Lack of appreciation of benefits of healthy urban forests

 

[Adkpk]

My question:

Why don't we see more trees in the landscape but instead see so much lawn worshiping.?

Read, "Second Nature" by Michael Pollan. Or watch, "Koyaanisqatsi: Life Out of Balance". It will reveal all the answers.

 

[pdqdl]

Question: Why is pest control many times better left untreated?

Because very often, the treatment for the pest does not provide control with a benefit that outweighs the expense & risk.

That, and everything TreeCo said.

 

[pdqdl]

Why don't we see more trees in the landscape but instead see so much lawn worshiping.?

Because the average homeowner does their own yard, and takes pride in their work.

They generally don't or can't work on their trees, so the element of pride is not the same, and the "perfect lawn" culture has grown to be more significant in many areas than the concern for trees. It doesn't help that the trees are often seen as competition for the lawn and a huge mess to clean up after.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Because the average homeowner does their own yard, and takes pride in their work.

They generally don't or can't work on their trees, so the element of pride is not the same, and the "perfect lawn" culture has grown to be more significant in many areas than the concern for trees. It doesn't help that the trees are often seen as competition for the lawn and a huge mess to clean up after.

I think it is your turn to ask, pdqdl!
Jeff

 

[pdqdl]

Thanks for the invite, Jeff.

Following along the line of rope's original question:

What is the best treatment for serious aphid infestation on fruit trees during springtime development, but after flowers are set? (and WHY?)

 

[jefflovstrom]

I guess I would grease the trunks and do wwats need to keep the ants away as they protect their food source.
Jeff
But I am sure you got something better.

 

[pdqdl]

Much better! Just waiting though...

 

[pdqdl]

Side note to my question:

Back in 1985 I had the grounds maintenance contract for the Truman Presidential Library, in Independence, Mo. Of course, I was rather new to this business, and I mostly relied on advice from others with more experience.

We acquired an aphid problem on the crabapples in the courtyard area, where Harry & Wife were buried. As you might suspect, there was little tolerance by the government for bugs that might be causing problems of any sort. They wanted those aphids dead now, dead later, and they didn't want to hear anything about cultural controls, either.

The results of our treatments were not exactly what was desired. But what else would you expect from a government contractor, working from the lowest bid, doing what he was told to do by the Federal Government managers?

 

[jefflovstrom]

Side note to my question:

Back in 1985 I had the grounds maintenance contract for the Truman Presidential Library, in Independence, Mo. Of course, I was rather new to this business, and I mostly relied on advice from others with more experience.

We acquired an aphid problem on the crabapples in the courtyard area, where Harry & Wife were buried. As you might suspect, there was little tolerance by the government for bugs that might be causing problems of any sort. They wanted those aphids dead now, dead later, and they didn't want to hear anything about cultural controls, either.

The results of our treatments were not exactly what was desired. But what else would you expect from a government contractor, working from the lowest bid, doing what he was told to do by the Federal Government managers?

What happened to the trees?
I was on a property last year with massive aphids and massive ants. Once we controlled the ants the meat bees and all their friends ate them. I haven't seen aphids stick around long without the ant mafia to protect them.
Jeff

 

[ropensaddle]

Thanks for the invite, Jeff.

Following along the line of rope's original question:

What is the best treatment for serious aphid infestation on fruit trees during springtime development, but after flowers are set? (and WHY?)

Just a guess but monitoring, as attraction of the parasitic wasp is accelerated by the flowers. If anything else maybe a mild soap spray which will kill both directly sprayed but not prevent new arrivals.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Rope, the wasp is one of the controls. The ant's are the reason the wasp's can't do their job. Not just the wasp's, but we got many aphid hungry pest's but when you control the ant's, you are almost there. Soapy water later, get rid of ant's now.
Dang Rope, You are starting to sound like a professor or something. I applaud you concern and ambition! (Hope that don't sound gay!) LOL.
Jeff
Probably gonna piggy-back on your learnin!

 

[jefflovstrom]

If anything else maybe a mild soap spray which will kill both directly sprayed but not prevent new arrivals.[/QUOTE]

Oh, this is why I responded. 'Kill them both', 'not prevent new arrivals'. That is why I said the soap is needed when you cannot control then ant's.
Jeff

 

[pdqdl]

The ant-stopper technique is ok, but the aphid predators don't reproduce quickly enough to prevent the aphids from being a problem, especially when there is an established infestation.

Insecticidal soap is the right answer. Given the fruit bearing problem, we should assume that all systemic insecticides cannot be used, and contact insecticides will wipe out all the predators as well as the aphids. The aphids are faster breeders, so the aphid problem may actually get worse after an insecticide application.

This is what happened to us in 1985. It was easy to wipe out the aphids, but then they came back with a vengeance, time after time. After several spraying cycles with dursban (as I recall), the Feds gave up spraying at all, and the aphids slowly declined until they were no longer a problem. I don't think we even had an ant population that was protecting them. You can bet that my dursban wiped out the ants, too.

Treat with insecticidal soap only the areas of the tree/orchard that show the worst damage. The predators will not be wiped out, and the aphids will only be reduced to a smaller, less damaging population that will still be available to feed the predators.

One source that I read recommended only pruning out afflicted branches, but I think that is more damaging than the aphids themselves.

 

[ropensaddle]

Rope, the wasp is one of the controls. The ant's are the reason the wasp's can't do their job. Not just the wasp's, but we got many aphid hungry pest's but when you control the ant's, you are almost there. Soapy water later, get rid of ant's now.
Dang Rope, You are starting to sound like a professor or something. I applaud you concern and ambition! (Hope that don't sound gay!) LOL.
Jeff
Probably gonna piggy-back on your learnin!

Lol it's all good my wife would kill me if we shared soap and a hot tub

 

[TrillPhil]

Really like the topic. Koyaaniqatsi is an excellent movie too. +1

 

[ropensaddle]

Ok so since no one else brought a question to the thread here is our next victim to doodle bug!

Question: Since soil and water relations is paramount in phc why can better soils relocated to different regions create problems with local specimen's

 

[pdqdl]

Rope or Jeff: you both answered soapy water, so let's have some more questions, please.

[edit: Dangit rope. You beat me!]

[second edit: read a good article on aphid control here. http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7404.html ]

 

[pdqdl]

That is a bit vague, rope. That question is so general in nature, I don't know where to go with it.

Are you talking truckload replacements for an entire plot of ground, or maybe just adding soil amendments to a recently planted tree?

Truckload replacements would create highly localized niche environments that support or transplant the wrong flora/fauna; leading to ecological complications.

Soil amendments around recently planted trees are likely to create transition barriers that lead to girdling roots and poor root expansion of the transplanted tree.

Is that where you were headed?