litefoot
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's easy for us to play armchair quarterback. But, in retrospect, you probably would not have "tested" the fuel mix used in a freshly-siezed saw in a good saw, right?
Well, I've done it.. part II
- Thread starter yo2001
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It's easy for us to play armchair quarterback. But, in retrospect, you probably would not have "tested" the fuel mix used in a freshly-siezed saw in a good saw, right?
Grande Dog
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
Howdy Yo,
First let me say, sorry for the hassle. There is no way your rings should have broken like that. The split groove rings in our kits are supposed to be ductile. They should bend but not break. You can see where it hung on the port. I think the porting you did was irrelevant to the ring failing, it just brought it to a head. We'll certainly replace the parts, or give you a refund.
I really tried to head this of as soon as I found out but, the cat was out of the bag. We haven't been able to keep the supply up to demand on these kits. We'll have hundreds come in and go out the same day. If all the kits had bad rings, I would have recalled them. It was very random, and almost everyone of the failures I've seen was on kits that had the ports modified. I hope this reads more like a reason than a excuse for the failure. There really isn't any excuses.
If anyone else has had the split groove rings actually break. or crack. Please let us know and we'll make it right.
Gregg
First let me say, sorry for the hassle. There is no way your rings should have broken like that. The split groove rings in our kits are supposed to be ductile. They should bend but not break. You can see where it hung on the port. I think the porting you did was irrelevant to the ring failing, it just brought it to a head. We'll certainly replace the parts, or give you a refund.
I really tried to head this of as soon as I found out but, the cat was out of the bag. We haven't been able to keep the supply up to demand on these kits. We'll have hundreds come in and go out the same day. If all the kits had bad rings, I would have recalled them. It was very random, and almost everyone of the failures I've seen was on kits that had the ports modified. I hope this reads more like a reason than a excuse for the failure. There really isn't any excuses.
If anyone else has had the split groove rings actually break. or crack. Please let us know and we'll make it right.
Gregg
Wet1
Addicted to ArboristSite
GD,
So are all the BB kits using these rings now?
So are all the BB kits using these rings now?
Grande Dog
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
Yes, they are standard in the BB kits. We will be moving our other kits to this configuration in the future.
Wet1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Why the move to split grove rings?
Grande Dog
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
Les friction.
Gregg-
I think this is the case. I've put over 20 of the new generation BB kits of various models into service with no port modifications and those saws are racking up hours and running strong. These are local-to-me customers who mostly cut firewood and clean up on ranch properties or do salvage work in river bottoms. I've put quite a few (30+) modified first generation BB kits in service on various models and only had two failures due to circlips (you warrantied both of those). Some of those saws are nearing 750 hours of service without an issue, other than basic fuel system maintenance.
RED-85-Z51
Addicted to ArboristSite
wow, now that's damn impressive right there.
I mean, that whole post took me off guard, my lower jaw slacked...You sir are one of the few people left that stands behind his product.
yo2001
ArboristSite Operative
One reason that I have been buying from Bailey's is because of people like Gregg and the staff.
Gregg is going to make it right for me.
Gregg is going to make it right for me.
Cadenhill
ArboristSite Member
Neither of the two failures I had posted earlier came from Bailey's (372BB& 262).I also feel of my not knowing about some of these problems was my fault. People have a tendency to jump on the bandwagon sometimes when the problems are their fault and not always the product.
My saws are all used for work and the only modding that I do is to mufflers.
The after market products will get better and better and hopefully will make the saw companies make their parts more affordable. A lot of people just can't go out and purchase a new saw when something happens.
Hat's off to outfits like Bailey's and their efforts.
My saws are all used for work and the only modding that I do is to mufflers.
The after market products will get better and better and hopefully will make the saw companies make their parts more affordable. A lot of people just can't go out and purchase a new saw when something happens.
Hat's off to outfits like Bailey's and their efforts.
Hats off again to Gregg and Baileys. They've gone way beyond the call of duty here IMHO.
Junkwrencher
Junkwrencher AKA 2Bears AKA Missedshot
my troubleshooting opinion,machining jargon
In response to the photos,I know it has been I.D.ed as a broken ring,I see skirt meltdown,or carbon,I know the build is fresh, so probably not carbon.My opinion would be the aluminum then the ring.The post said it was four-stroking in the cut,I usually richen my oil mixture as well as the jetting,but who am I?I am currently running a Bailey's kit in a Husky 394xp for about eight months with no problems,however it is not ported,its just an old work saw.I recently pulled the muffler on the husky and the piston shows very little wear,it actually looks new.I am confident enough that I recently ordered another for an 024.As for the Asian tools,which I also own and use,the first thing we do is clean the machine up, do the testing and lube that should have been done at the factory,then a slow trial run being ready to shut down the machine to minimize damage as you experienced with the fourty thousand dollar machine.No they don't compare with Germany or the old U.S. machines for that matter.Even after the bugs are worked out with an Asian machine,a different set of operations are developed and used to sneak up on tolerances rather than making one run and chance wasting an entire project and starting all over.
In response to the photos,I know it has been I.D.ed as a broken ring,I see skirt meltdown,or carbon,I know the build is fresh, so probably not carbon.My opinion would be the aluminum then the ring.The post said it was four-stroking in the cut,I usually richen my oil mixture as well as the jetting,but who am I?I am currently running a Bailey's kit in a Husky 394xp for about eight months with no problems,however it is not ported,its just an old work saw.I recently pulled the muffler on the husky and the piston shows very little wear,it actually looks new.I am confident enough that I recently ordered another for an 024.As for the Asian tools,which I also own and use,the first thing we do is clean the machine up, do the testing and lube that should have been done at the factory,then a slow trial run being ready to shut down the machine to minimize damage as you experienced with the fourty thousand dollar machine.No they don't compare with Germany or the old U.S. machines for that matter.Even after the bugs are worked out with an Asian machine,a different set of operations are developed and used to sneak up on tolerances rather than making one run and chance wasting an entire project and starting all over.
yo2001
ArboristSite Operative
I'm not an expert either but I've seem a scored piston or two and I've not seen one lose a ring from it before. (I guess it's possible) whatever it was/is, The bailey's helping me in anyway they can so I have any hard feeling.
I do want to defend myself some though. The port still have the original chamfers left. The intake, exhaust port were widen not lower. As you can see from the picture of the piston, there was no snag from the edge of the exhaust port. The exhaust port were ported when I first got the kit and ran fine until last sunday. There were no scuffing when I took it apart on last Friday. About the only thing that I did on Friday was clean the upper transfers alittle.
I won't say my porting wasn't the fault because simply I can't be for sure but I would not have made a big post about if I knew it was my fault. I've snag a ring before and I'm was pretty sure it wasn't the cause of this one.
So I guess the honest question now is, the kit up to the task of ported saw? (I guess the mainly the rings) Like I said before, my kit was measured pretty tight and the compression high. (I clocked 190 psi day before). I guess both equate more heat. I guess plus the 044 flywheel and no 046 heat shield. I guess I need to work on keeping the saw cooler if I want to keep one running. I also am going to recheck the ring gaps this time around.
I still can't thank enough for Bailey's though.
I do want to defend myself some though. The port still have the original chamfers left. The intake, exhaust port were widen not lower. As you can see from the picture of the piston, there was no snag from the edge of the exhaust port. The exhaust port were ported when I first got the kit and ran fine until last sunday. There were no scuffing when I took it apart on last Friday. About the only thing that I did on Friday was clean the upper transfers alittle.
I won't say my porting wasn't the fault because simply I can't be for sure but I would not have made a big post about if I knew it was my fault. I've snag a ring before and I'm was pretty sure it wasn't the cause of this one.
So I guess the honest question now is, the kit up to the task of ported saw? (I guess the mainly the rings) Like I said before, my kit was measured pretty tight and the compression high. (I clocked 190 psi day before). I guess both equate more heat. I guess plus the 044 flywheel and no 046 heat shield. I guess I need to work on keeping the saw cooler if I want to keep one running. I also am going to recheck the ring gaps this time around.
I still can't thank enough for Bailey's though.
If you want to eliminate your concern about the rings, get yourself rings for a 660. They're pricey but at least you'll know that factor's eliminated.
yo2001
ArboristSite Operative
But you are running the split rings on your BB 066 though right?
yo2001
ArboristSite Operative
Update.
Got another kit from Gregg (thanks again) I assembled it as it was. Going to stay with the split rings that came with the kit for now. I did get a back up 460 OEM P&C for just in case.
I do like to add the measurement of two BB kits were within .001" of each other. Pretty good for an aftermarket kit.
I hope it'll work out. Thanks for all the guys helped me out.
Got another kit from Gregg (thanks again) I assembled it as it was. Going to stay with the split rings that came with the kit for now. I did get a back up 460 OEM P&C for just in case.
I do like to add the measurement of two BB kits were within .001" of each other. Pretty good for an aftermarket kit.
I hope it'll work out. Thanks for all the guys helped me out.
Yes I am. I'm of the opinion that if they'll hold up in an unported engine, they'll hold up in a ported one. If they're breaking in the ported saws, I'd have to guess the ports weren't properly beveled or the port wasn't shaped right. I'm leaving them in my ported 361BB too.
