What grinder and wheel(s) to get?

[esshup]

First off, you guys are a bad influence. :greenchainsaw:

I sign up here back in February looking for advice on a new chainsaw. Got that taken care of, and this site is what pushed me to invest in more safety gear (chaps and steel toes).

I figured that I've done just fine for a number of years with a small saw that could run a 16" bar. I also had never owned a file to sharpen a chain - the local Amish saw shop was charging me <$4.00/chain so why spend the $ and time doing it myself?

I also thought that once I bought the 7900 with the 24" bar I'd never need a larger bar. That one is big enough to cut any wood that I'd come across, right? When I bought the saw, the shop had a slightly used 32" RW Oregon bar sitting there that he said he would make me a great deal on. I'll never need that one I said to myself. 6 months later I'm back in the shop asking if they still had the 32" bar....

Now, since I've got the larger saw, I'm cutting more wood and going thru more chains. The larger chains don't cost <$4.00 to sharpen either. I still haven't bought a file yet.

So, now I'm starting to look for a chain grinder. I figure that with the larger chains, and the amount of wood that I'm starting to cut, it'll be quicker to sharpen with a grinder than with a file. Plus, hopefully there will be a shorter learning curve with the grinder.

Also, my cousin, who lives a distance from me is having a hard time finding a good sharpening service. He has a firewood processor, and for the 20" chain that he has on it, the local guy wants $12/chain to sharpen them. He was going to buy a bunch of chains from Bailey's and send them to me to take to the local sharpener here. So, I figure that once I get my feet wet sharpening my own chains, I can do his just as easily.

I don't want to spend $1,000's of $ on a sharpener, but I don't want to buy a cheap POS either. I haven't read thru the whole Northern Chainsaw Sharpener thread yet.

What's your recommendations on a sharpener? The majority of the chains (both mine and my cousin's) are .375" x .050", with my smaller saw taking a .375" x .050" low profile chain.

BTW, as long as I'm trying like heck not to catch it, what does CAD stand for?

 

[flushcut]

:agree2: I use files for 90% of my sharpening and the grinder to correct major damage and after many filings. I don't care for the bar mounted jigs but thats just me. I do however like the husky roller deals.
I have a Oregon 511 with the ABN wheels, but I have read good things about the N.T. grinder

 

[gemniii]

Now, since I've got the larger saw, I'm cutting more wood and going thru more chains. The larger chains don't cost <$4.00 to sharpen either. I still haven't bought a file yet.

So, now I'm starting to look for a chain grinder. I figure that with the larger chains, and the amount of wood that I'm starting to cut, it'll be quicker to sharpen with a grinder than with a file. Plus, hopefully there will be a shorter learning curve with the grinder.

Also, my cousin, who lives a distance from me is having a hard time finding a good sharpening service. He has a firewood processor, and for the 20" chain that he has on it, the local guy wants $12/chain to sharpen them. He was going to buy a bunch of chains from Bailey's and send them to me to take to the local sharpener here. So, I figure that once I get my feet wet sharpening my own chains, I can do his just as easily.

Your going to be hard put to sharpen your cousin's chain on the bar.
I use three levels of sharpening - hand filing for touching up when I'm milling, a Granberg File n-joint for three sharpenings, then an NT grinder to make sure i get all my angles back correctly. If you are doing 1 chain the file n-joint or similar on the bar is fine.
TSC also has a grinder like the NT.
Word to the wise - NT grinders seem to be made without quality control. All I had to do to mine was sand down the mating surfaces. Others have wobbly wheels etc.

 

[esshup]

gemniii, why do you say "Your going to be hard put to sharpen your cousin's chain on the bar."?

He's running .375 x .050 chain as well.

 

[gemniii]

"

gemniii, why do you say "Your going to be hard put to sharpen your cousin's chain on the bar."?

He's running .375 x .050 chain as well.

Short answer - NO bar
The bar is a distance from the OP.
As I read the OP he has a 16". 24" and maybe a 32" bar. If the cousin ships him 20" chains they would be a pain to put them on a bar for sharpening on a bar.

Long answer, plus rambles -

He could fix up a bar on a vise or whatever, but he's wrote a "bunch of chains" for his cousin.
I read "bunch" as more than "several" but less than "a lot" and guestimated half a dozen twice a year. And he needs to get these accurate or go Amish. This is getting into production.
It takes me about 10 minutes to easily sharpen my 28" chains (which I used the most) EITHER on the bar (file n'joint) or grinder while I watch the news (longer if I'm watching a comedy show or good football). To put on and take off a chain it takes a minute or two (worse if you have an outboard clutch).

Now maybe the OP, who's never 'owned a file to sharpen a chain" will be a born natural filer. After reading here for a year there's a few who seem to pop up. But any filing system will have variances in pressure and angle. The least is found in the best automated grinders. After several hand filings the chains will probably have to be sent to either the Amish or a grinder.

If he has to sharpen 3 times a year then I'd advise a Carlton FOP
If he has to sharpen 12 times a year then I'd advise a file n'joint type guide, plus a few FOP's
If he has to sharpen 20 times a year then I'd advise an accurate grinder, plus the other two.

There's some of the hobby CSM'ers that routinely go thru 3 chains that need sharpening in a day of milling.
Up until my CAD/CSM problem started a year ago (when I won that darn JD CS 62 here) I used about 1 chain every 5 years. I just bought new chains. Now in my gear up for retirement I've got about 20 loops, from 10" to 42". And as I sink further into the depths of CAD/CSM I'm looking at 880's with 6' bars. So I view sharpening as an essential skill.

As posted in http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=146549 prices for sharpening vary widely. Here my local Stihl dealer (in NoVa) charges $12 for a 20", plus I have to take the chain to them and pick it up WHEN they are open. I sharpen at home at my convenience.

And to the OP - expect to spend $1,000's on saws to dull the chains. Don't expect to save much time on a grinder over a file, but do expect to gain accuracy.

AND OP - after you read the ENTIRE NT grinder thread please summarize it in a separate thread. Last I looked it had about 754 postings.

 

[esshup]

gemniii

Sorry for the misunderstanding. You are correct, sharpening the chains on the bar is not possible. It's me without any file experinece, that's why I'm looking for the grinder. It's my cousin with the firewood processor. He lives in Casper, Wy and sells bundled firewood to c-stores and campgrounds. He is processing lodgepole pine (I think). I'm in Indiana. I believe he's up to slightly over 100 cords a year now as a part time job. He has the same problem taking his chains in as you do and the same price; sharpeners inconsistent hours of business and a poor job. There's been times where he's waited 3 weeks to get his chains back. He has 6 chains now that he rotates, but is going to buy 10 more from Bailey's. He said his sharpener guy was charging $12 per chain, and even with flat rate priority shipping, the Amish guy would be cheaper. He just happens to be running the same size chain as I am running on the 7900, .375 x .050, but if I remember right it's a 20" chain. The Amish guy here charged me $12.50 for my 32" chain last time, and $8 for the 24".

I read the complete NT thread last night (that's right, every post and my eyes are still bleeding, but in a good way ), and it seems that the quality has slipped a bit in the past few years, and the price now is $129.99.

To paraphrase the mods:

Grind any sprues/mold flash off that will inhibit smooth movement
grind ridge off of washer
File turntable mating surfaces smooth - use a dry lube on them
add shims, spring and SS washer (will fab myself since Stihl 041 isn't making them now)
add up travel limit bolt
true up vice jaws
buy different wheels
download Oregon manual

How'd I do? What did I miss?

You're right, I do have a 16, 24" and 32" bar, I didn't mention the 14" bar. The 14" and 16" bar take .375 x .050 low profile chain, the 24" and 32" take .375 x .050 regular chain.

I dulled 4 24" chains and 1 32" chain this weekend cutting thru some wood at a tree service lot. Twice it was my fault for dipping the tip on the opposite side of the log trying to cut as much as I could before rolling the log, and the others were from cutting thru numerous crotches in the logs. But, for the approx. 4 cords that we got for "free", I think the wood is a reasonable price if I can sharpen them myself. I also went thru 1 gallon of pre-mix and approx 3 qts of bar oil. And about a gallon and a half of diesel for transportation. (4 trips)
We got all the wood cut, loaded and unloaded in slightly over 6 hours.

 

[gemniii]

<snip>
To paraphrase the mods:

Grind any sprues/mold flash off that will inhibit smooth movement
grind ridge off of washer
File turntable mating surfaces smooth - use a dry lube on them
add shims, spring and SS washer (will fab myself since Stihl 041 isn't making them now)
add up travel limit bolt
true up vice jaws
buy different wheels
download Oregon manual

How'd I do? What did I miss?

You're right, I do have a 16, 24" and 32" bar, I didn't mention the 14" bar. The 14" and 16" bar take .375 x .050 low profile chain, the 24" and 32" take .375 x .050 regular chain.

I dulled 4 24" chains and 1 32" chain this weekend cutting thru some wood at a tree service lot. Twice it was my fault for dipping the tip on the opposite side of the log trying to cut as much as I could before rolling the log, and the others were from cutting thru numerous crotches in the logs. But, for the approx. 4 cords that we got for "free", I think the wood is a reasonable price if I can sharpen them myself. I also went thru 1 gallon of pre-mix and approx 3 qts of bar oil. And about a gallon and a half of diesel for transportation. (4 trips)
We got all the wood cut, loaded and unloaded in slightly over 6 hours.

You did well on the reading homework! In addition to the NT grinder there is one sold by TSC which may just be a repainted NT, If you have a nearby store (either NT or TSC) it's best to buy there, in case you get one which is so bad (like the arbor being off-center) that it needs returning.

 

[esshup]

Thanks. There's a TSC 12 miles away. I'll swing in there tomorrow.

 

[willsaw4beer]

You'd do well to find a decent shape tecomec fl136/ Oregon 511 used for under $200 and get a cbn/abn wheel from Bailey's or Foley Belsaw. Get a Husqvarna combigauge tool also for the rakers.
I have a Foley Belsaw 308 with cbn wheels for 3/8 and .325 chain that I used as my crutch while learning to handfile. The wheels were $100 ea and I got the grinder for $150, although I may have gotten a killer deal on the 308 without realizing it.