Education question for the British fellows

[hillbilly]

Or anyone who has any experience with the British arborist
educations.
After having worked part-time in the industry for the last two
years I feel I need to get some formal education. I also feel
the need to get some written proof of what I've learned.
Since Sweden only offers a 1-year high school education, going
to a British college for a year or seems better.
I've heard good things about both Myerscough and Moulton,
Merrist Wood being not so updated and teaching old school
techniques.

Any ideas of which school and what education that I should
contact would be appreciated.

 

[Rob Murphy]

"Woodies"

Hey dont upset the "woodies" that the main one we hear off here. of course I would recommend 'Ryde' in Sydney(where I went) or 'Burnley' in Melbourne.But OZ is a bit aways from you.

 

[hillbilly]

Merrist Wood is the most well known over here too, they
are pretty good at marketing themselves.
Perhaps I wanted to upset a bit, to get some replies.
It was a fomer Merrist Wood student who told me that they
were not completely up to date, feel free to correct me on this.
And yes, Australia is on the direct opposite of the globe from here.
Would be fun visit some time though.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

This is a website based in Wales:

http://www.proclimber.co.uk/forum/default.asp


They are really local...

Tom

 

[Opthalmia]

I've known several people who completed Meyerscough. They've all been very knowledgeable and competent. I've also been to that University and meet with some of the staff and think quite highly of them also. You can get a 2 year national diploma or higher. Britian also has a rigorous competence testing policy administered by National Proficiency Test Council (NPTC). I will have a Moulton student coming over in the fall to do an internship. Other than that, I can't comment on the other Uni.s.

 

[Jock]

Competant testing policy? sorry to say but if you have the ability to write a cheque payable to NPTC, you are deemed competant, you'll find that is a very touchy subject in this country amongst the experienced operators who 10 or 12 years ago were deemed incompetant until approved by an accessor who talked utter garbage for a few days and collected the cheque and laughed all the way to the bank.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

There are hundreds of of arborist programs here in the states. 2 very good tech schools with 2 year degrees here in Wisconsin. Fun trees too.

 

[Acer]

For a shorter course, Merrist Wood do, or used to do, a 10 week course. I finished that in 1997. You get 2.5 days / week practical with the rest theory. It was a fast moving course, covering almost as much ground as other longer courses they do, such as the NC. The tutors were excellent, apart from a few of the technicians who helped supervise the climbing - they were macho gobsh1tes who took great pleasure in bawling out the less competent/confident amongst us. I can't condone that, although it is typical of what you face once you qualify and get a job. However, the two I'm thinking of have moved on, I believe. The course led to relevant NPTC units and a City & Guilds.

As far as old school climbing goes, maybe so. I finished in 1997, and we were trained to climb on 3 strand nylon ropes. We were taught lowering by using natural crotches...no blocks/pulleys in sight. I cannot say what the situation is now, as the whole training thing has changed so much here, even in 5 or so years.

I had a look at Myerscough at a recent ISA conference, and it looks good, judging by the equipment room and the gear they have there. Decent campus, too.

PS Jock..

Talking about NPTC, have you seen the latest/revised NPTC guidance leaflets? One of them, AFAG805 "Training and Certification" contains the paragraph..

"2 1 Arborists operating a chainsaw during tree-climbing operations
need to have the additional Certificates of Competence, CS40
'Carry out pruning operations'and/or CS41 'Undertake sectional
felling', as relevant. Groundsmen should hold the industry
recognised NPTC Certificate of Competence CS45."

Do all your climbers have 40-41? A while ago, CS38 and 39 were the only arb units needed, and that's all I have. Looks like I'm suddenly underqualified...training and testing for these two will come in at £800-1k.

 

[steve yorkshire]

training

i would suggest getting units 40,41,if employed as a climber,some very good lessons to be learnt,i completed mine with tim kirk at holmfirth and found the experience valuable,have known climbers with 10 years experience of sectional felling and crown reduction work fail to come upto scratch ,bad practices and habits,the only problem i have with the nptc is people that wake up one day and decide to be tree surgeons ,booking a weeks training ,having assesment same week then going out into the world as trained tree climbers/surgeons with little or no experience ,as per fountains/tilhill.personally i think it needs to be a lot more stringent ,more emphasis on tree health correct pruning technique and less emphasis on the climbing ability of so called climbers.if you want assesing and think you dont need to be trained give kirky a ring im sure he will point you in the right direction ,

 

[Opthalmia]

Jock, Its my understanding that the NPTC cert.s were a bit dodgey in the past. While working in Edinburgh 6 months ago, I took modules 30,31,38,39,40,41 and passed (barely) from two different assessors. I thought they were very critical and attentive to the imposed standards. I have 15 years of full time tree experience in the US but found British standards hard to adapt to. Hell, I squeaked by on small tree felling. Hard to break some of my pre-established habits. I think the assessments, as I experienced them, are valid and would love to see something similar in the US. Previous to my trip over there, I fellow came my way and we worked together. He would have been considered moderately skilled and any tree service over here would have given him a chainsaw to do a days work and walked away. He took small tree felling with me and finally passed on his 3rd try. I don't think NPTC is giving away cert.s.

Rumor has it that retesting after a number of years might be implemented. Good Luck

 

[Acer]

Originally posted by Opthalmia
I don't think NPTC is giving away cert.s.

Rumor has it that retesting after a number of years might be implemented. Good Luck

It used to be quite cosy. An assessor/trainer could run a course then hand out the certificates afterwards..now the trainer cannot make the assessment..the assessor has to be independant of the training.

I don't think it's exactly a doddle to get through these tests. A bloke who works for me is going through them now, and it's hard work..tho' I'm glad to say he has passed OK. There have been people on his course who have been climbing/operating chainsaws for 10 years or so without certificates who are having problems getting through as well..

As for regular retesting..not looking forward to it, as it will cost money that I'm short of as it is, although I know in my heart that it's the right thing to do. Trouble is that most of the competition for domestic work aren't going to bother with this, so it puts you at a disadvantage if you try to pass on the costs to the customer. This seems to be a problem here, and I've heard of a number of the more progressive firms who comply with H&S legislation are simply dropping out of domestic work and concentrating on local authority/utility work. Homeowners can't pay/won't pay, so that section of the market is being left to the cowboys and pikies.

Now if they really wanted to save lives, what about compulsory retesting of drivers?