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Chainsaw Milling Bar & Chain

Discussion in 'Milling & Saw Mills' started by Tim_10, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    What's everybody's opinion on break in period on a new set of rings before I start milling?
    32:1 ratio with the carb tuned a little rich for milling is what I've been reading, right or wrong?
    Any special oil/gas?
    Next is bar/chain size...I have the Granberg 36" mill already. I'll be milling smallish pistachio (18" diameter) and larger beetle Kill Pine (24"-30" diameter). Any experience with either of these types of wood? My thoughts are a 36" bar but I'm not sure what'll cut the best in the woods mentioned... (.375/.050), (.375/.063, or (.404/.063)?
    Also what's everyone using for a compression tester, would like to test my older chainsaws. I picked up a harbor freight one but with extension tube on I was getting false low readings (no Schrader valve at the end of the tube so I had to use those shorter ones with the rubber universal tip but that thing was a PITA!

    Thanks for all the input!
     
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  2. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Forgot to mention, I'll be running a Stihl 660 with big bore kit for the milling.
     
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  3. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    Pro stock saws like a 660 are designed to run WOT straight out of the box.
    A big bore kit probably needs breaking in.
    A common method is to use 5 tanks of mix in different sizes of crosscutting.

    IMHO 32:1 just fills the air around the operator with unnecessary unburnt oil, smoke suppressors and other crap.
    If you use fully synthetic oil you can use 50:1. Most modern saws that are well tuned can even use 100:1, the reason the manufacturers don't recommend this is because, accurate mixing of 100:1 in small amounts is easy to get wrong and many saws are not always maintained in a state of optimum tuning. The most important thing is tuning a little on the rich side.

    Synthetic oil. Probably the most important thing about the gas is that it is as fresh as possible. If you are going to leave it in storage for some time if you start out with higher octane it won't have lost as much of it's octane rating by the time you go to use it.

    I'd be using Lopro for that sort of stuff. that means a special bar (Lopro/050)
     
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  4. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Any synthetic 2 stroke oil will work appropriately for milling or does brand matter here?

    Seems searching for a narrow kerf bar in that size (36") brings up left coast supplies but they are out of stock.

    What's the rationale for LoPro chain in the wood mentioned vs other sized chain?

    Thanks for the input BobL
     
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  5. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    Budget Branded "Synthetic" might only be semi-synthetic. Sticking to a quality brand would be more reliable.

    Lopro;Reduced load on saw and narrower kerf = faster cutting time
     
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  6. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Would .375/.050 be second best option? 36" GB narrow kerf bars are out of stock until June. I couldn't find any other brand that went bigger than 28".
    Also I was reading another thread that you were saying there was quite a bit of stretch in the LoPro chain in bigger bars.
     
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  7. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    If you are going to get .375 then you might as well get 0.063, the bar groove carries more oil and supports the chain better for milling so less wear and tear on the B&C.
    Yes I did say that Lopro stretches and would become a problem on long bars but in your woods a 36" bar should be OK. I'm using it on a 25" bar and that's about as long as I would go in our harder woods.
     
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  8. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Good insight, thanks for the advice! I'll go with that bar.

    So growing up I was always told Oregon bars were the way to go. Does that still hold true? I've been reading a lot of good stuff about Cannon bars. Are they really worth double the price or could the money be spent elsewhere (more loops of chain, aux oiler parts) considering I'm not going to be milling all the time?

    In regards to chain now, it looks like it's more of a personal preference as to what kind of chain you use. Ripping chain vs full skip. Sounds like ripping chain gets you a smoother cut and full skip gets a faster cut. Or does it all just depend on the rakers?

    Also I'm planning on making an aux oiler. Seen quite a few setups all looking pretty nice and easy to do. Couple questions though. I believe I read on another post you let the oil drip on the bar area as the chain makes the curve heading back to the saw, is the correct? Also what's the final outlet diameter of the tubing before the oil drips onto the bar (1/8,1/4)? Another thing, I've seen a tube on the side of some of the PVC. Is that just an oil level guage or is there another purpose for it?

    Thanks for all the advice!
     
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  9. abbott295

    abbott295 ArboristSite Operative

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    Tim, Yes, you want the oil dripping onto the bar just about at the chain so it picks up the oil heading into the cut.

    B. I don't see that the outlet diameter matters; it is not supposed to be regulating the flow.

    3. A piece of clear tubing serves as a sight gauge for the oil in your reservoir.
     
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  10. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    You have to really thrash a branded bar these days to mess up and wear them out. If you apply basic B&C maintenance, keep oil delivery holes unblocked, adequate oil using reasonable quality oil, dress the bar regularly and remove burrs, keep the chain sharp and rakers lowered, don't push too hard on the saw etc

    [/QUOTE]In regards to chain now, it looks like it's more of a personal preference as to what kind of chain you use. Ripping chain vs full skip. Sounds like ripping chain gets you a smoother cut and full skip gets a faster cut. Or does it all just depend on the rakers?[/QUOTE]
    Ripping and skip are two different features of chains.
    A chain can be/have
    1) ripping cutters (10º top plate filing angle) and be a skip chain.
    OR
    2) ripping cutters and have full complement (non skip) chain
    OR
    3) Non-ripping cutters and skip
    OR
    4) Non-ripping cutters and be a full comp chain.

    Preference is sort of personal (Assuming everything has been optimised)
    Full comp versus skip: Full comp has more cutters so goes blunt quicker but takes longer to sharpen. In wider logs skip eases the load on the power head, If you want to use a smaller power head on a wider log the skip will help.
    Finish depends more on the mill itself and how smoothly an operator uses the mill more than the whether its ripping or otherwise chain. A ripping chain can produce a poor finish if; the operator is too rough with the mill, seesaws the mill sideways down the log, does not maintain the chain and bar, lets teh mill go out of square etc.

    If the oil "drops" from a height, even an 1/8", above and direct onto the chain most of it will be thrown away by the moving chain especially the chain rivets,
    If the oil drops on the bar too far back from the chain then not enough oil might get to the chain.
    The best place to have the oil outlet is as close as possible to the top of the bar so that the oil "wicks" out onto the junction between the bar and the chain rather than dropping from height.
    This may mean having an adjustable oil drop position.

    Here's a simple one I made for a mate prior to height adjustments - wicking height was done by adjusting the two zinc nuts.
    oildeliverypoint.jpg

    This is mine on the BIL mill showing the old Bolt thru the bar oiler, and the new wicking oiler.
    I used brass all thread rod so that if it hits the chain it does no damage.

    The bolt thru the bar oiler gets easily blocked by sawdust and because it is not pumped it cannot clear blockages which is why the wicking oiler is better.
    IMG_8671.jpg
     
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  11. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Going to get non-ripping skip and see how it goes. Thought process is, if I don't like it I can always re-file to 10 degree and see if I like that better. That way I'm not wasting a ripping chain and a regular skip chain can always be used for crosscutting also. I like that new wicking oiler setup you got there BobL. I can see how that would work way better than a drip oiler. In regards to that brass all thread, is there a hollow brass all thread or do you bore a hole in an all thread rod? A quick google didn't return a hollowed out brass rod except for a lamp rod that is only brass plated. And is that a braided line that attaches to your brass rod. Is that just for ease of connections or is there a purpose for that braided line?
    Attached is a pic of what my AUX oiler will attempt to look like, does that seem about right for a proper/efficient AUX oiler?
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Forgot to draw in the ball valve in there somewhere.
     
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  13. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    You will need more than one loop of chain anyway, one might break, you might knock some cutters off a chain in the first couple of cuts. Unless you have a spare loop it puts a real dent in your day if you can't keep going. Say get one non-skip and one full comp and go from there.

    You can also uses 5/16" brass bolt if you can find one
    RE Hole" I bored it out - I used a metal work lathe as it keeps the hole more concentric than trying to do it with a a drill. The lathe is also how I also shaped the end into a bit of a point. You can do that by putting the all thread into a power drill and applying the end to a belt sander.

    It's a hot water nylon internal , SS braided external, flexible plumbing hose connection. I used it because it is very flexible and I had a half dozen of them in my plumbing stash. At the time I was using canola in the aux oiler as it was far cheaper than B&C oil but it did not play nicely with the nylon and swelled it up so that it choked the inside of the hose. I now have another of those flexy plumbing hoses on there but I'm using proper B&C oil.

    Clear PVC tubing lasts about 3-4 years in the hot, high UV, Aussie sun before it goes hard and brittle (and White if you use canola). I have changed the PVC tubing on my small mill twice in 11 years. A better type of tubing if you can get it is Silicone hose although it can be expensive.

    Looks Ok
    One tip I find very useful is to use two aux oiler taps, one to turn ON/OFF and one to set flow. That way, once you have the flow set right you don't need to touch it and you turn the ON/OFF one as needed.
    Its easier to do this than having to finesse the flow on the spot.
     
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  14. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Very good/smart idea!! Will definitely do that! Is there an ideal gtt/min or ml/min for CSMing?

    Was planning on getting a few loops of chain. Is there any advantage on square chisel vs round chisel chain?
     
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  15. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    The ideal is what works for your size wood, dryness/hardness, chain setup etc
    On the 880 powerhead, which has an oiler with a max output of 38 mL/min, I run the Aux oiler between ~15 and ~40 mL/min depending on the size/dryness and hardness of the wood.
    The 076 has a lot less coming out of the powerhead oiler so I use a little more on the Aux oiler.

    Personal preference, square chisel cuts faster but goes blunt a bit quicker especially in harder wood. I reckon finish is a bit better with semi-chisel.
    If I was cutting clean softwoods and not too worried about finish I would use full chisel
     
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  16. M.R.

    M.R. ArboristSite Operative

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    Myself I buy ‘Semi’-Chisel square ground then
    sharpen back to ripping spec’s over use with a
    round file / grinder... believe but never actually
    measured but seems to be a slightly longer tooth.
    The learning curve sharpening square ground with
    a Goofy file is a bit steeper.
    .
    Full comp, then semi-skip is what I’d try before going
    Full-skip, although power head & bar length comes into
    Play... along w/ size & wood species.


    OT on the Lucas Slabbing attachment each pair of
    Left / Right cutters are approximately 9” apart
    also traveling much slower, the washboard effect
    Is slight but I believe in the softer woods I mill can
    be improved upon.
     
  17. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    On the GB chain the ripping cutters are longer than the regular cross cut chain because the Top plate filing angle is only 10º.
     
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  18. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Ended up going with an Oregon 36" bar .063 guage 3/8" pitch along with a full comp and full skip chain.
    Been working on the aux oiler recently. Just need to adjust the exit point for the oil. IMG_1247.JPG IMG_1248.JPG IMG_1249.JPG

    Opinions and criticism welcome
     
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  19. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

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    Good job. Less oil will be flung off the chain at the nose if you shorten the oil drop support arm and move the oiling point about 90º further around back towards the power head.
     
  20. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    The goal is to put it where the blue mark is. Is that about right?
    The bar wasn't in yet and I set it up with another bar (beginners mistake). Then when I was setting it up it was too late to be cutting and drilling metal in my garage so its on hold until I can get back to it.
    Thank you for your input!
     

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