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Fully Synthetic 2 Cycle Oil Vs Standard?

NickC

NickC

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My 2 cents, back around year 2000 l started getting paid on production cutting timber I ran a saw hard for 6.5 or 7 hrs 6 days a wk.I ran reg husky oil when I was running husky’s and I ran reg stihl oil when running stihls. I got a new saw and ran it hard right from the very first tank. Never even gave a thought to breaking in, later started running stihl synthetic. Then I got a computer about 2013 & started reading about oils & breakin etc & worrying about these things, started using Motul & running half throttle first little bit then stepping it up first few tanks. Long story short I never had a saw fail in any of these scenarios! I serviced them on Sunday,cleaned them, greased needle bearing, kept filter clean as I could.I believe one of the most important things I did was when I got bar pinched I didn’t jerk and wrench back and forth excessively I used a wedge or put on spare bar & got it out or if guy in next strip was close I got cut out, therefore I never caused an air leak and got it running lean. Lean equals saw failure I believe, sorry to ramble on about what was just supposed to be about oil. I still like Motul best because it just feels like it has way more lubricity between your fingers where the stihl & husky just feel thin but I’m not sure it makes a difference because I had luck with both!
Sums it up well!

You wouldn't buy a brand new car and instantly drive it around everywhere on the rev limiter or sit on the drive with your foot flat to the floor needlessly revving it? You're a little gentle, let it rev, make it work but show it a little empathy? Probably...

So for the first tank try and be gentle, no WOT out of the cut etc. You're not going to 'bed' a hardened steel bearing into a hardened steel crank in a few tanks of fuel, I'd imagine it's more to ensure everything has a good coating of oil and moving properly before you expose it to excess load and heat.

I'd imagine that there are as many contradictory threads about oil mix, Stihl have been stipulating 50:1 for how many years? I'm not bothered by it so don't read them but I have glanced on threads saying that more oil is a waste of money and can be detrimental, lowering the octane, excess carbon etc. I use 50:1 plus 10% to allow for any miss-calculation or slight overfill of fuel / under measure of oil, works out about 45:1 on a good day. Still std red as the saws I have were designed to use it, modern stuff synthetic.
 
NickC

NickC

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I'm not saying it's wrong but 32:1 is 56% more oil than the engine manufacturers design the engines around.

Without wishing to divert this thread any further is there any real evidence that this is beneficial? For example tests where two new saws have been run side by side for x thousand hours, one on 50:1 the other 32:1 then properly inspected and measured for wear? If there are such sites or threads please give me a link.
 
Andyshine77

Andyshine77

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If you don't rinse out your mixing cup with fuel a good percentage of it is being left in the cup. Well unless you sit there and let it drip out for a few days.

There have been many side by side comparisons in the Cart and MX side of things, but not specifically with outdoor power equipment. Some models pretty much require more oil to keep the bottom end from letting go. We can argue whether or not the bottom end have a weak design, but that's a whole different topic.

One thing is pretty darn clear, with the appropriate oil and tuning, more oil is certainly not harmful. Although some of the thicker oils don't like the combust as well at richer mixtures. Motul 800 and Klotz R50 come to mind, great products, but saws have a hard time getting hot enough to burn them correctly IMHO, good for milling though.

Remember how many constraints manufacturers have to deal with. Do you really think 0W 20 is better for your cars engine? No it's to improve fuel economy and emissions. It's not about or designing what is absolutely best, it's about designing and recommending the best you can within the constraints of manufacturing and regulations. This is called the big picture IMHO.

Chainsaw engines are crude and have sloppy tolerances compared to other engines. Run them normally from the get go, just avoid really long cuts, and make sure to tune a little rich for the first 10 tanks or so. Run good quality oil and fuel and don't worry about it, especially with a stock saw. Most importantly keep the chain in good shape!!!!!!! that's far more important than the oil you run!
 
Broken

Broken

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Another vote for Amsoil Sabre , mix it 50:1 in all my 2-strokes . Previously used Klotz R which was primarily designed for its anti galling properties in high temp applications (Racing) . Any Premium Full Synthetic is a better oil than any Mineral based oil , you get what you pay for !
 

U&A

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If you don't rinse out your mixing cup with fuel a good percentage of it is being left in the cup. Well unless you sit there and let it drip out for a few days.

There have keen many side by side comparisons in the Cart and MX side of things, but not specifically with outdoor power equipment. Some models pretty much require more oil to keep the bottom end from letting go. We can argue whether or not the bottom end have a weak design, but that's a whole different topic.

One thing is pretty darn clear, with the appropriate oil and tuning, more oil is certainly not harmful. Although some of the thicker oils don't like the combust as well at richer mixtures. Motul 800 and Klotz R50 come to mind, great products, but saws have a hard time getting hot enough to burn them correctly IMHO, good for milling though.

Remember how many constraints manufacturers have to deal with. Do you really think 0W 20 is better for your cars engine? No it's to improve fuel economy and emissions. It's not about or designing what is absolutely best, it's about designing and recommending the best you can within the constraints of manufacturing and regulations. This is called the big picture IMHO.

Chainsaw engines are crude and have sloppy tolerances compared to other engines. Run them normally from the get go, just avoid really long cuts, and make sure to tune a little rich for the first 10 tanks or so. Run good quality oil and fuel and don't worry about it, especially with a stock saw. Most importantly keep the chain in good shape!!!!!!! that's far more important than the oil you run!
Bingo!


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM
 
CR888

CR888

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'You wouldn't buy a brand new car and instantly drive it around everywhere on the rev limiter or sit on the drive with your foot flat to the floor'
You want to see factory automotive test engineers start & run brand new 'off the line' engines in a factory. Those guys show NO mercy @WFOT! But...they DO know what their doing.
 
NickC

NickC

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You want to see factory automotive test engineers start & run brand new 'off the line' engines in a factory. Those guys show NO mercy @WFO! But...they DO know what their doing.
Yeah, very often testing to destruction or fault finding. I wonder if they would do the same if it was the zero miles motor in a car they'd just paid 40k for?

You don't have to nurse a new motor, but there's no harm in being a bit gentle with it for the first hour of it's life... It pains me when I see people start stone cold saws and instantly run them wot to 'warm them up'
 
gyp69

gyp69

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I am with you NickC, I only WOT to get an rpm on tach, still kinda cringe, I believe I may be a tad loony, although when cutting in wood I run the s—t out of them!
 
stihl86

stihl86

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Just curious as to how others feel about using fully synthetic 2 cycle oil in their chainsaws? Would this not be recommended for a saw breakin period if there is one, if used? Amsoil makes some good synthetic oils I’ve been told.

Thanks for any opinions.

Mike
It's really impossible to know for sure. Been at a very large Stihl dealership for over 40 years as a mechanic.
Seen quite a bit over the years, but never an internal engine failure that could be directly linked to the use of Stihl HP.
It's a coventional oil. Very reasonably priced.
Mixing oil at the wrong ratio, as testing has shown, might cancel any advantages that a so called " Premium "oil can offer.
Most guys have a few saws. I handle 10-20 in a week.
Poor maintence kills saws. Not a quaility oil.
Not getting into a debate with the experts. Just my experiance.
 

Duce

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It's really impossible to know for sure. Been at a very large Stihl dealership for over 40 years as a mechanic.
Seen quite a bit over the years, but never an internal engine failure that could be directly linked to the use of Stihl HP.
It's a coventional oil. Very reasonably priced.
Mixing oil at the wrong ratio, as testing has shown, might cancel any advantages that a so called " Premium "oil can offer.
Most guys have a few saws. I handle 10-20 in a week.
Poor maintence kills saws. Not a quaility oil.
Not getting into a debate with the experts. Just my experiance.
:numberone:
Or no maintenance at all!
 
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