Grizzly/Viking splice DIY on bee line e2e tail

[chad556]

Just thought I would share my latest project: Homemade Sewn Splices.

Each splice took me about 20 minutes to sew. No special tools were necessary. Just a regular sewing needle (pretty big one), needle nose pliers for pulling and pushing the needle when it got tough, and the most heavy duty upholstery thread I could find. About $10 total for all necessary equipment at the fabric store and I still have enough thread for at least 20 more splices by the look of it.

Here are some pictures

Now i know what you're thinking, and don't worry, I am not going to hang my life on these just yet. I plan on doing a couple low and slow field tests to see how the stitching holds up. I will also use the knut hitch for added safety. One of the only hitches i have found that wont immediately unroll if one end of the splittail comes loose. You will notice that i have used two distinct different methods of stitching as well. My ultimate goal will be to destroy one or both of these splices somehow and determine what can be done to improve them and try to see which method is best and why. Or the best case scenario is that the rope or the eye will break before the splice/stitching and i will know that I have a solid splicing technique.

If you look closely you will notice that I stitched across two perpendicular planes in both splices. On one I split the stitches evenly between planes and on the other I just did a little straight through both ropes and a generous amount around both the ropes (the way the machine does it).

Also, I have ordered a bunch of heat shrink tubing from wesspur and I plan on using that over the stitching to prevent premature abrasion

Well thats about it for now, what do you guys think?

 

[flushcut]

Good luck with that.

 

[oscar4883]

I'm all about doing things myself when I can but hitch cord, even the spiced e2e ones, are pretty easy on the pocket book. Don't really see the sense in messing with it FWIW.

 

[chad556]

Yeah I see where you are coming from and it makes perfect sense. A grizzly spliced 28" beeline e2e is $24 on sherrilltree.com vs. mine which if you factor in the hour or so I spent on it + materials+ 3 ft of beeline at $1.62 a foot is about $20. The aspect of it that I like though is that mine is 27" and has that much less play in my climbing system. I love to play around with stuff and customize what i can. It's not for everybody, i know, but I just enjoy the challenge of seeing if I can do it.

 

[the dude]

Let me say this my friend. Those splices made me have sweaty palms. How much is your life worth? Don't climb on those. The money you save is not gonna be worth the terrifying ride those will potentially give you. Just a thought.

 

[chad556]

Well here is my new attempt. After extensive testing with my original bee line tail I found no weaknesses in my stitching. Going through the rope in multiple directions stitching wise seems to do the trick. That original tail was pulled pretty good by a pickup and came out unscathed. Wish i had a picture but there were some areas that seemed to strain more that I reinforced with my new stitching pattern. I also have used more thread. The new tail is 5/16" HRC by new england ropes. The stitching is first done on the inside of the splice through the jacket only to hold the inside diameter of the splice together. I then go over the outside of the splice alternating going through the core and through the outside of the jacket. Finally to finish it up I lock stitch through the core on the opposite axis of the splice (had to use pliers to push the needle at times) and to protect against sharp objects snagging the stitching and abrasion from normal wear and tear I finish with heat shrink tubing (the pic was taken before I did the step on the second splice)

Its finished length is 24.5" from eye center to eye center which is a perfectly tuned fit for the hitch I climb with, the XT. Looks very similar to the ones they sell commercially. I trust my own stitching over a sewing machine but thats just me.

Now, I know what your thinking and I don't blame you. I wouldn't climb on it either if it didn't make it myself. I know how far I can trust this method of splicing, and this newest tail that I have made, I wouldn't hesitate to trust my life or any one of my loved ones' lives to. The advertising says this preservers more rope strength than even traditional eye splices. It will hold up at the very least as well and any double fishermans knot I could tie.

Like i've said, its not for everyone but if you want to try it out, be careful, practice, test, practice again, try it out low and slow and just use common sense and be safe. If in any doubt stick with your original system, its not worth your life.

 

[treefaller25]

Splicing is not real hard to do on Beeline or Hrc.Its fun to tinker around with stuff.I do not splice commerically only for myself.Please do yourself a favor and rethink what you are doing there.If that fails your not gonna be the only person affected by the results of a failure.Good luck!

 

[chad556]

Splicing is not real hard to do on Beeline or Hrc.Its fun to tinker around with stuff.I do not splice commerically only for myself.Please do yourself a favor and rethink what you are doing there.If that fails your not gonna be the only person affected by the results of a failure.Good luck!

I have done a few traditional bee line splices for practice and they came out pretty well. The issue I have with the splicing of class 2 ropes is that you only get the strength of the core because the cover isnt part of the splice. With the sewn splice you get the strength of both the core and the cover which is 8000 lbs for bee line and i believe 7500 for HRC (double that when a closed system hitch is used) The thread I use is around 30lbs breaking strength, doubled over on the needle thats 60# and factor in at least 100 stitches each splice gives you 6000 break strength per splice or a total system breaking strength of 12K (in theory anyways). Well within the guidelines for climbing. I'm not sure what exactly you want me to rethink? What looks iffy to you exactly? I have found very little info on the specs of grizzly or viking splicing, just that they are done with a sewing machine and they preserve 90 to 100% of the ropes strength. I would love to know how mine are much different. It would be cool to reverse engineer if I ever get my hands on one. If anyone has info I would be very interested.

 

[flushcut]

I think I get your motives for doing what you are doing but I think your results from splice to splice is going to vary quite a bit. If you really want to prove your splices have them pull tested by a lab. I even think if you contacted Sherrill they could do it for you. Maybe send them a batch of ten or so and I would be willing to bet the results will vary for good and bad. The thing with a machine sewn splice is that the results are consistent.

 

[chad556]

Very true. I wish I knew someone who had a universal testing machine. I put quite a bit of force on the first one that I made with a pickup truck, with the other end clipped via chain link to a tree stump. It pulled it untill the tires slipped a little and everything stayed intact. That test only tells you so much though. I know my body would have been ripped apart before that splice would but as far as safe working load, cycles to failure, minimum breaking strength, and possibly the most important factor to me, where the thing would actually break, is still a mystery. Since it has already been subjected to this abuse, i of course, would never use it for anything. The stitching strained but it was purposely weak stitching to see how different patterns would hold up.

I could probably break it with a shock load or multiple shock loads it didn't seem appropriate at the time. I guess that would tell me what I need to know as far as where it would fail. If it snapped right in the middle that would tell me that the splice strength exceeds that of the rope strength. If it broke right at the base of the splice it would tell me that the stitching weakens the rope to some unknown degree. If the stitching tore out and the rope failed that way it would suggest that the stitching is X% weaker than the braid of the cord. Either way these things are strong, there is nothing flimsy about them and you can easily tell if the stitching is straining by visual inspection. That's great when your on the ground, however, when you are 50' off the ground hanging just on your hitch cord its comforting to know that there were extensive tests and actual numbers.

Even then average breaking strength means just that, average. One broke at 8350 lbs one broke at 7455 lbs another hang on just to 8005 lbs etc. That's why there are WLLs. If you put 800lbs max on a system rated for 8000lbs you will still be fine if the breaking strenght of the rope is only 7150lbs. Lots more variables here though. I am terrified of equipment failure. It isn't that I don't trust me gear, I do. I just do everything I can to ensure that it is bulletproof in construction and has as many built in failsafes as possible/practical. That's why both of my saddles I use have two bridges. That's why I use bee line in the first place. Sometimes I climb with two lanyards so I can be solidly positioned when I re-position my TIP. Sometimes I work triple tied in. Point is I would not use these tails unless I was 100% sure of them being solid.

Here it is in action:

I hang on this in my living room for a little bit. Its pretty solid and a very compact hitch. Not sure I like HRC as much as beeline but we will see how it breaks in.

 

[treefaller25]

I have done a few traditional bee line splices for practice and they came out pretty well. The issue I have with the splicing of class 2 ropes is that you only get the strength of the core because the cover isnt part of the splice. With the sewn splice you get the strength of both the core and the cover which is 8000 lbs for bee line and i believe 7500 for HRC (double that when a closed system hitch is used) The thread I use is around 30lbs breaking strength, doubled over on the needle thats 60# and factor in at least 100 stitches each splice gives you 6000 break strength per splice or a total system breaking strength of 12K (in theory anyways). Well within the guidelines for climbing. I'm not sure what exactly you want me to rethink? What looks iffy to you exactly? I have found very little info on the specs of grizzly or viking splicing, just that they are done with a sewing machine and they preserve 90 to 100% of the ropes strength. I would love to know how mine are much different. It would be cool to reverse engineer if I ever get my hands on one. If anyone has info I would be very interested.

I am a certified rigger have been an arborist for 27 years and done tower work on some of the tallest towers in America.The thing you should think about is.If I am climbing on your product you have fabricated.Think about it it fails in the customers yard, who is gonna call your family and tell them.What is your groundman gonna do when you hit the ground.Thats gonna have an effect on many people. I wish you luck with your splice.If you feel that confident about your splice I would send a couple out and get them break tested and shock loaded.I am not trying to offend you just offering advice!

 

[chad556]

No offense taken, don't worry. I didn't expect this idea to be met with much optimism to be honest. I am just exploring what can be done to make my own safety gear. I would love to test out my creations but there isn't much money available for R&D at the moment and i doubt anyone at sherrill or wesspur would set one of those machines up for free. For the moment I am going to try to break the bee line tail and see where the weakness is.

For the present I will continue to climb on cords with a double fishermans loop tied on each end. I still have a strong feeling that my splices (traditional eye splices and sewn) would hold up better than any knot could (remember: knots can weaken the breaking strength of some ropes by 60% or more). But until I have supporting evidence I will continue to go with what I have been using. Thank you for all the input, and trust me I want to stay safe as much as you want me to stay safe.

 

[treefaller25]

No offense taken, don't worry. I didn't expect this idea to be met with much optimism to be honest. I am just exploring what can be done to make my own safety gear. I would love to test out my creations but there isn't much money available for R&D at the moment and i doubt anyone at sherrill or wesspur would set one of those machines up for free. For the moment I am going to try to break the bee line tail and see where the weakness is.

For the present I will continue to climb on cords with a double fishermans loop tied on each end. I still have a strong feeling that my splices (traditional eye splices and sewn) would hold up better than any knot could (remember: knots can weaken the breaking strength of some ropes by 60% or more). But until I have supporting evidence I will continue to go with what I have been using. Thank you for all the input, and trust me I want to stay safe as much as you want me to stay safe.

Try youtube.i think Cornell Univ has some vid's on shock testing arborist gear.It can be done with measured weights and some math.That might awnser some questions for you.if i find them on youetube I'll get back to you.

 

[treemandan]

Oh no you didn't. Chad? Are you still with us?

 

[bootboy]

I hate to encourage it, but... A more consistent method...
Get a sewing machine used for bar tacking (can be had on eBay or local appliance recyclers for ~$200) and use 60lb test spectra thread, count the stitches per inch for consistency. Depending on rope size, its generally 2 layers of stitching of 25 each so 50 stitches per inch and the number of inches should be min 6-7x the rope diameter (1/2 inch rope = 3-3.5 inches of stiching, 8mm = 48-56mm etc.) I have a friend who machine stitches webbing and eyes in rope but not for life support applications. He's had them load tested and the rope breaks either at the apex of the eye or the base of the stitching on the single line in both static and dynamic tests. I may someday, when I cant afford to buy sewn cord, have him do some for me, until then though... Factory stitched for me.

Edit: call sterling rope and ask them about custom sewn products, they'll put you in touch with a distributor who can order any type of eyes in any type of rope directly from sterling. I've done it for rock climbing gear. They are great to work with, and you know the quality is top notch so you can rest easy.

 

[treefaller25]

I hate to encourage it, but... A more consistent method...
Get a sewing machine used for bar tacking (can be had on eBay or local appliance recyclers for ~$200) and use 60lb test spectra thread, count the stitches per inch for consistency. Depending on rope size, its generally 2 layers of stitching of 25 each so 50 stitches per inch and the number of inches should be min 6-7x the rope diameter (1/2 inch rope = 3-3.5 inches of stiching, 8mm = 48-56mm etc.) I have a friend who machine stitches webbing and eyes in rope but not for life support applications. He's had them load tested and the rope breaks either at the apex of the eye or the base of the stitching on the single line in both static and dynamic tests. I may someday, when I cant afford to buy sewn cord, have him do some for me, until then though... Factory stitched for me.

Edit: call sterling rope and ask them about custom sewn products, they'll put you in touch with a distributor who can order any type of eyes in any type of rope directly from sterling. I've done it for rock climbing gear. They are great to work with, and you know the quality is top notch so you can rest easy.

Bootboy this is a much better then hand stitching.Getting your splices or sewen eyes tested is a great idea.

 

[B_Turner]

I like the OPs initiative. Making/modding your own gear is big part of the history of rock climbing, tree climbing, etc. I used to have friends that made all their rock climbing harnesses, slings, etc (even chalks). Common sense prevails.

Do I think his splices are strong enough? Probably.

Our lives are a constant management of risk, and in truth his final interations of the splices are probably not the biggest risk factor in his life (or climbing) overall.

Remember how freaked many climbers were when knotted rope bridges were first seen? Your life is hanging every moment on two friggin stopper knots! Now it is commonplace.

Would I climb on his eyes? Probably not.

 

[Ryan Shaw]

Very true. I wish I knew someone who had a universal testing machine...

...Point is I would not use these tails unless I was 100% sure of them being solid.

Here it is in action:

I hang on this in my living room for a little bit. Its pretty solid and a very compact hitch. Not sure I like HRC as much as beeline but we will see how it breaks in.

I know this will probably sound like I'm completely inexperienced and that's because, well, I am, but I was just wondering what brand your orange rope is? I have the same rope and I want more. Do you know off hand?

 

[Black Dogg]

Ryan
That looks to me like Yale Blaze climbing line. Wesspur sells it here http://www.wesspur.com/items/bl15.html .
My 2-in-1 lanyard is made from it and I like it.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

Sherril tree will break test your splices for $30. It's on there website

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