Is a Website a worthwile investment?

[Buckettruckbabe]

Here's a link for a free website grader (SEO Tool)

http://websitegrader.com

This was something a teacher at Ascend Training (Blogging for Business) clued us in on so we could see how our website ranked in terms of SEO/On page Factors/Content/etc.

Our website scored a 88/100 at the time, and after doing some on page optimization with our webmaster, revamping of our blog and making sure all tags were correct, our score is up to 98.2/100

Our site's pictures have all been crawled by Google because they have Alt tags. Meta Tags are VERY important too, as well as having a conversion form and RSS feed/blog.

Don't forget...creating a website doesn't mean it will get found. You have to make sure to submit it to all the Search Engines, relevant directories, and start building/exchanging links!

If you have Webmaster access, I recommend Google Analytics.

Google gives Domain age and Page Rank top priority, then relevancy and content then inbound/outbound links.

Firefox has a great plug in (free) for checking all the important SEO stuff.

The most important thing for ranking in search is deciding on your Keywords. There are tools out there
to help you, as well as the obvious. Sometimes finding a niche word in addition to the highly competitive
terms can work wonders.

 

[rb_in_va]

I am an IT guy, and I would go with a website template. There are plenty of free ones out there. I haven't done web development in so long that a recent college grad would do a better job than me with a basic site. Also one thing I always think about it the length of the URL. The shorter the better. Also if it is catchy and easy to remember that is good. Short URLs fit better on business cards too if you have them.

 

[Mike Cantolina]

Our website scored a 88/100 at the time, and after doing some on page optimization with our webmaster, revamping of our blog and making sure all tags were correct, our score is up to 98.2/100

That's impressive!

I tried it and my first score is 53/100

Thanks for the link!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Is a Website a worthwile investment?

Only if you do it right.

A poor website will send people away. You've got the right first step - recognizing that you need help. Amateurs who build their own site usually build crap.


Here's a good place to learn what NOT to do:


http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com


One more thing - you will pay for hosting somewhere. Make sure it includes email hosting, and USE IT!

Nothing shouts AMATEUR HOUR more than a "business" email address that ends in aol.com

Or whatever your ISP is....

 

[af7850]

Apologies if my opinions come off as combative.

Let me offer the same apology to you! I think that you're hitting on a lot of interesting and important points.

At any rate, Skaneateles is a town of 2500 people. I don't think thats enough people to stay busy, and when you begin searching only a few miles away, Lake Lawn Tree Service becomes nearly unfindable.

Yeah, I'm waiting to hear more about exactly what his market area is.

Your comments on my pic alteration were the one thing I was worried about and didn't want to hear......Looks like my monitor is playing tricks on me....time for a new one. Now I'm worried that some of the pics on my site have the same washed out colorless look.

You know, it's almost impossible to know how these pics will show up in different peoples' monitors.

Amateur studio engineers usually try to listen to their recorded music through several different types of receivers and speakers because they all sound slightly different; it's really a challenge to mix a track which sounds great regardless of where you are listening to it. To me, trying to master images for websites is a similar challenge.

For what it's worth, all of the images on your main webpage look good, except maybe the one of the sycamore ready to be dropped.

By the way, it's easy to get on the web with a WordPress template, but it's really difficult to make it look great. Your site is pretty impressive - I can only imagine how many hours you have into it!

 

[lawnmowertech37]

Websites are ok to have but alot of hard work keeping them up

As far as hosting Mike has a hosting company

 

[rb_in_va]

Websites are ok to have but alot of hard work keeping them up

Hard work? I would hardly call it that, especially on a forum where people climb and cut trees for a living.

 

[rb_in_va]

You know, it's almost impossible to know how these pics will show up in different peoples' monitors.

Many pro web guys will develop for 1024X768 resolution. If someone has a higher resolution it will view just fine. Also a tip to remember is to compress those large pictures. You can usually get a high resolution pic down to managable size (100KB or less) for web viewing. Large res pics are a killer for fast page loading.

 

[ddhlakebound]

The resolution isn't the issue rb. Everyones monitor displays slightly different color, brightness, contrast, etc...

The image on the left isn't viewable on my monitor, but the image on the right looks great on my monitor. On others monitor the image on the left is ok, and the altered version on the left was labeled "washed out and colorless".

I know I need a new monitor, but I'm sure some other people viewing web pages also have display issues. So it's hard to predict how images will appear on someone else's system.

 

[rb_in_va]

The resolution isn't the issue rb. Everyones monitor displays slightly different color, brightness, contrast, etc...

Ok, I haven't see that much difference from monitor to monitor. It's not something I've thought about too much honestly. But if you have a REALLY old monitor I guess it might be a factor. I was addressing the physical size and disk size issues.

 

[af7850]

Equally surprising is how differently sites are rendered depending on the browser that is used.

 

[Lumberjacked]

This is the first year that I have had my website up, so I am still on the learning curve. As for the nit picking about my website it is slightly ridiculous but some of you're observations and opinions will be taken into account. Over time I am sure that my site will grow in size and ranking as well as my business. My web designer updates and make changes to my site at no charge and as for the price its all a he said she said.

To answer your questions about how I run my business. I do not need a city of 100,000 people to stay busy and make money mainly because my business philosophy is not "our rates are lower than most licensed and insured tree services" I have a very large following in Skaneateles as well as the surrounding areas. Just an FYI the Internet is not the only way to advertise and grow a business.

 

[ddhlakebound]

My website was made by a friend that went to school for web design and photography, $1200 later I have a great base for future changes and growth.
Check it out I would love some of your feedback.

-----------------------------------------------

This is the first year that I have had my website up, so I am still on the learning curve. As for the nit picking about my website it is slightly ridiculous but some of you're observations and opinions will be taken into account. Over time I am sure that my site will grow in size and ranking as well as my business. My web designer updates and make changes to my site at no charge and as for the price its all a he said she said.

To answer your questions about how I run my business. I do not need a city of 100,000 people to stay busy and make money mainly because my business philosophy is not "our rates are lower than most licensed and insured tree services" I have a very large following in Skaneateles as well as the surrounding areas. Just an FYI the Internet is not the only way to advertise and grow a business.

Lumberjacked...

Chill man, you're the one who asked for feedback on your site. Like I said in the first place, it's a nice site.

When you go to review a nice site, nearly everything that's noticed will be "nit picky", and it should be. If stuff big enough to not be "nit picky" was being mentioned, it probably wouldn't be a nice site in the first place.

The issue of city size was to illustrate that its much easier to rank second in a town of 2500 than it is in a city of 100,000. And than when you rank second for 2500 people (and don't rank outside that) you get less total exposure than if you rank second for whatever radius 100,000 people live in.

Pointing out things that could be done differently isn't a personal attack on you, your website, or your webbuilder. It's feedback. Which you asked for.

Nobody asked how you run your business. We asked about the area you're trying to have your website be found in.

and as for the price its all a he said she said

No, it's not. She'll build a website thats better than yours for roughly 25% of what you claimed to have paid. A google friendly one that can edited at will by its owner. (But that's ok...if I overpaid for a flash site I couldn't do anything to, I'd be sour too...)

Oh, and FYI, we all know that the internet isn't the only way to grow a business. It is what we're discussing here tho, so what's your point?

 

[Oly's Stump]

The rule of thumb used to be if you were not in the phone book u were a fly by night co! Now days if you don't wave a web site you are. We no longer have add's in the ph book we just do web based stuff and mailers and are saving HUGE $$$ as we used to run 1/2 page add's in 6 books and we tracked it for 2 years and found that 90% of our calls were not coming from the ph book add's and that is where 80 % of our add money was being spent! Now we spend only 30% of what we use to and get 10 x the calls / bis

I totally agree with ASD. I found the same to be true. No more yellow page adds after this year! Yellow page adds are costing me $300.00 per month and now AT&T is not even handing books out like in past years. A person has to go get one. What the hell is that!

 

[Buckettruckbabe]

Thanks Mike (Cantolina)

It's helpful to actually get feedback and see where you can make website improvements.

There is a lot to consider, especially if you depend on internet traffic.

My job is SEO/SEM for my company (in-house) vs. contracted, which we also do.

We have our main website, but we have (2) others as well that I utilize to drive traffic to the main site. One was created before I got here, the other I did myself, in addition to (4) blogs I've done in support of cross link promoting. All are designed to drive traffic to the main site.

I have access to our main website which includes the stats. It tells me how many unique visitors by day/week/month so I can track progress, and it even breaks down what browsers people are using and the resolution. (by percentage and type.)

I realize that may be more than what most owner/operator's need in a website and feedback, but a decent web presence just anchors what it is you do. People like to be able to "find you".

Yellow pages...phooey. Makes nice firewood, and if you still have an outhouse...

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Thats exactly the problem....A person can't code enough information into a flash site to rank well in a broad area.

Flash is great. It can do things that cant be achieved any other way. But it's a poor choice for a contractor site operating in a fixed area, especially a basically static site.

My only beef with Flash is the speed. Or should I say potential slowness sometimes.

Ranking is becoming less relevant all the time in saturated markets. Ranking is easier in smaller towns, or where there is limited competition.

But a lot of Web Designers and SEO folks laud "ranking" a bit too highly. I'd say that "optimization" would be the best approach. If the key words are on the home page or site, and the company name, it can be found. Like tree, stump, grind, removal or removal.

As far as ranking, that's more like gambling and the lottery every week. The example I use, is taking 100 websites. Lets say there are 100 tree services a city, and they all hire the best website person to try and get them into the top handful of slots. Well ... flip a coin. That website person can't promise jack. But they do many times,.

That's where the age of a website will have an advantage. And I think there is a lot to be said for being able to edit one's own site. Because any rise in "ranking" won't be due to the design of a site. It will likely fall to whoever spends quite a bit of time adding to their site, editing their site, or increasing traffic to their site.

Personally, I like the look of some Flash in a website. Either way. But if someone sees a design they like, with it, I say why not, as long as the file does not grow too big. Maybe just a percentage Flash.

My goal had been to get a few visits to my services pages and home page, and a whole bunch of visits to my peripheral pages. The "pageviews" below, is for every web page combined. The high point for this month was February 15th with 1192 pageviews. My guess is that 1500 will be the peak in the spring time. Below is the screen shot I put on the Buzz the other day. From Google analytics.

 

[ddhlakebound]

My only beef with Flash is the speed. Or should I say potential slowness sometimes.

Ranking is becoming less relevant all the time in saturated markets. Ranking is easier in smaller towns, or where there is limited competition.

But a lot of Web Designers and SEO folks laud "ranking" a bit too highly. I'd say that "optimization" would be the best approach. If the key words are on the home page or site, and the company name, it can be found. Like tree, stump, grind, removal or removal.

As far as ranking, that's more like gambling and the lottery every week. The example I use, is taking 100 websites. Lets say there are 100 tree services a city, and they all hire the best website person to try and get them into the top handful of slots. Well ... flip a coin. That website person can't promise jack. But they do many times,.

That's where the age of a website will have an advantage. And I think there is a lot to be said for being able to edit one's own site. Because any rise in "ranking" won't be due to the design of a site. It will likely fall to whoever spends quite a bit of time adding to their site, editing their site, or increasing traffic to their site.

Personally, I like the look of some Flash in a website. Either way. But if someone sees a design they like, with it, I say why not, as long as the file does not grow too big. Maybe just a percentage Flash.

My goal had been to get a few visits to my services pages and home page, and a whole bunch of visits to my peripheral pages. The "pageviews" below, is for every web page combined. The high point for this month was February 15th with 1192 pageviews. My guess is that 1500 will be the peak in the spring time. Below is the screen shot I put on the Buzz the other day. From Google analytics.

With a fair percentage of internet users on something resembling high speed, I see bots and spiders being unable to read content as the biggest limitation of flash.

I'd wholeheartedly disagree that rankings are becoming less relevant due to saturation. The levels of market saturation for anything you search for is becoming greater with time, but peoples patience to look beyond the first few listings or the first page has not increased.

I agree that overall optimization is the best approach, but simply having a word in the text of your site does not mean that people will find you. The complexities of the algorithm used to determine ranking hinge on much more than keywords and keyword density alone. I agree that you can be found. But whether or not you will be found depends alot on your rankings.

As far as ranking, that's more like gambling and the lottery every week. The example I use, is taking 100 websites. Lets say there are 100 tree services a city, and they all hire the best website person to try and get them into the top handful of slots. Well ... flip a coin. That website person can't promise jack. But they do many times,.

In theory this is 100% accurate, but in reality if it's akin to gambling, it's more like poker where the skill of the player has much to do with the end result. All 100 tree services won't hire or develop a seo pro. Of the ones who do, they won't all hire the best pro.

So the players who are learning and making a concerted effort will realize a definate advantage. But when it comes to scrapping over those top few spots, I'll agree that it's much like gambling.

I've never said flash doesn't look good, it does. And I agree that a or some flash applications in a non flash site can provide some worthwhile benefits, but I strongly stand by my statement that a stand alone flash site is a very poor choice for a contractor operating in a fixed area.

The traffic on your site is impressive M.D. In fairness, you do have multiple different topics bringing people in, to the level that you've got enough content for several different stand alone websites. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, only that all the visitors are not necessarily there to learn about arboriculture, so comparing your site to an arboriculture only site isn't comparing apples to apples.

It's easy to see that you've invested alot of time and work into your website, and it shows in your traffic. I don't like AdWords, but I do like your usage of it in your information pages, and keeping it off your "work" pages. Are you making any money from it?

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Most people will get the first page of results, often with just 10 companies or results. Not neccessarily even 10 companies.

So in big towns, again using the example of 100 companies with sites, if 90 companies don't make it to the first page, its basically "Adios Amigo !!"

Say 10 years goes by, and now there are 200 companies with sites in one nich. Double. The first search results are still pretty much going to be 10 that matter.

It might be comparable to affordable beachfront property, back in the early 1900s in Oregon, compared to everybody hoping to afford a full size beachfront house in 2010. Only a limited number of people can afford beachfront houses now. The rest of the folks just rent one for a weekend. Beach front is limited to a line, minus the parks. Cities on the other hand, generally can expand outward in any direction. That's why the beachfront example clicks for my way of thinking in light of website saturation on the internet. The entire internet space is unlimited, but page one of search results will more or less always be page one, or one page.

In the Portland area, it seems more akin to actuality than gambling. A few sites illustrate it. For example, Garden Aesthetics has been in the top few spots for landscape design for at least 5 years straight that I can tell. I've been in the top few spots for Portland Certified Arborist for several years. Likewise with some other sites I've watched. One common element has been the age of the URLs.

Occassionally, I'll see a new website do well and get on the first page steadily, but its not the norm

The one thing that seems so different about the internet, compared to the Yellow Pages, is the variation on the internet. Which may fall into what you call the gambing nature. With the Yellow Pages, someone could choose to pick any size ad they wanted, and the ad was always going to be in the same place, guaranteed. One of few drawbacks was having a name at the end of the alphabet, if readers began with the As, Bs and Cs.

The alphabetical handicap of the Yellow Pages, may be one thing partially comparable to the uncertainty of whether someone will be in the first results of Google, Ask, MSN or Yahoo.

I also disliked AdWords.

Do you have any idea what companies are bidding for them these days? I have no idea, but will take a wild guess that they are bidding at least $2.00 per click for say "Portland Tree Service".

I tried AdWords about 5 or 6 years ago. High bids were like 25 cents per click to the top right corner. I was able to bid 5 cents to 10 cents per click back then, and get posted in the 2nd or 3rd space on the right side. I never saw a billing from Google for over $15 dollars in any month. Finally dropped Adwords when my website rose on the left side in regular search results to the top half.

 

[DUGs-sawshop]

Yahoo also has a website builder for dummies. These two sites are mine that I built in my spare time and update regularly. www.mcateedemo.com and www.skidooalpine.com . I am not a computer geek , they are step by step instructions that anyone can do.
I think a website is very important nowadays. Good luck. doug

 

[rb_in_va]

Yahoo also has a website builder for dummies. These two sites are mine that I built in my spare time and update regularly. www.mcateedemo.com and www.skidooalpine.com . I am not a computer geek , they are step by step instructions that anyone can do.
I think a website is very important nowadays. Good luck. doug

Wow, nice sites Doug! See that is why I recommend most people use a template. They work great and build good navigation and features right in. That ski-doo site looks like a lot of fun. Too bad I don't get much snow where I live!