kick back,pulling is the timming out?

[the woolfe man]

Hi just after some advice.I went cutting fire wood yesterday with an older 064 stihl i only just got it recently.The person i got it of said its terible to start and could break your hand he said i think the timming is advanced.So i went to a chainsaw mechanic and he said he will have a look.I also couldnt get it to idle properly.So i got the saw back and it didnt grab like before and it idled better but still when left for more then a minute on the ground it would stop.Then it would take about five pulls to get it going.The fliter was clean and even when the saw was warm it would take that much to start.The chainsaw mechanic said it needed a new needle,he also put a new spark plug in it and adjusted the carby.It ran well and cut nicely.But was hard to start.Not as hard as before because thats why i orginally went to the machanic for the kicking back or whatever its called the starter cord would rip my hand back it would grab fercily.So back to what i was saying after the machanic just after i brought the saw he tuned it up and he said yeah the timming is proberly advanced but it should not grab as much now he said i didnt touch the timming only the carby spark plug.See how it goes.So i used it put 3 tanks through it and never did it grab once like pull my hand back in.Just wouldnt idle for very long.Anyways 3 weeks later yesterday i used it and all it wanted to do was pull my hand back in i hit my thumb several times and im suprised i can move it today my hand was on the handle as i start it on the ground.So i would pour a little petrol down the carby so it wouldnt grab my hand pull it in but then the thing wouldnt start until about 15pulls the it had to be on half throtle so the chain would spin then it was right until you put the saw down and then it wouldnt idle then i would try and start it and it would pull the starter cord back in violently so id do the petrol thing and then it would still grab ocasionally.So my question is.Is the timming out?How can i fix? will i need a flyweel pulley or could it be something else?Should i leave it?.Is it worth fixing?Once the chainsaw is going and cutting its quite nice to use, doesnt bog down or scream to much, just cuts how it should for that size saw.Its just terrible to start could break my fingers.And it doesnt idle .Well some times it does.Could i get away with useing a starting agent like airo start.Yestrday i could of cut more wood like another 3 tanks if i didnt have to spend the time mucking around trying to start it.Could it need something to do with the electronics as well?

 

[harrygrey382]

Hi just after some advice.I went cutting fire wood yesterday with an older 064 stihl i only just got it recently.The person i got it of said its terible to start and could break your hand he said i think the timming is advanced.So i went to a chainsaw mechanic and he said he will have a look.I also couldnt get it to idle properly.So i got the saw back and it didnt grab like before and it idled better but still when left for more then a minute on the ground it would stop.Then it would take about five pulls to get it going.The fliter was clean and even when the saw was warm it would take that much to start.The chainsaw mechanic said it needed a new needle,he also put a new spark plug in it and adjusted the carby.It ran well and cut nicely.But was hard to start.Not as hard as before because thats why i orginally went to the machanic for the kicking back or whatever its called the starter cord would rip my hand back it would grab fercily.So back to what i was saying after the machanic just after i brought the saw he tuned it up and he said yeah the timming is proberly advanced but it should not grab as much now he said i didnt touch the timming only the carby spark plug.See how it goes.So i used it put 3 tanks through it and never did it grab once like pull my hand back in.Just wouldnt idle for very long.Anyways 3 weeks later yesterday i used it and all it wanted to do was pull my hand back in i hit my thumb several times and im suprised i can move it today my hand was on the handle as i start it on the ground.So i would pour a little petrol down the carby so it wouldnt grab my hand pull it in but then the thing wouldnt start until about 15pulls the it had to be on half throtle so the chain would spin then it was right until you put the saw down and then it wouldnt idle then i would try and start it and it would pull the starter cord back in violently so id do the petrol thing and then it would still grab ocasionally.So my question is.Is the timming out?How can i fix? will i need a flyweel pulley or could it be something else?Should i leave it?.Is it worth fixing?Once the chainsaw is going and cutting its quite nice to use, doesnt bog down or scream to much, just cuts how it should for that size saw.Its just terrible to start could break my fingers.And it doesnt idle .Well some times it does.Could i get away with useing a starting agent like airo start.Yestrday i could of cut more wood like another 3 tanks if i didnt have to spend the time mucking around trying to start it.Could it need something to do with the electronics as well?

Jees mate - you need to use paragraphs now and then! Anyway - about your saw:
It's HIGHLY unlikely the timing's been changed, well kind of. To change the timing the key would need to have been snapped, and the flywheel put on in the wrong place. To check this - undo the nut on the flywheel, and check the key is in the flywheel.
Otherwise, it sounds like there may be a problem with the low speed circuit in the carb. Is it really running perfectly at high speed - to check, find out how many turns out the H screw is, it should be around 1. You should at least get it pressure checked, then maybe change the L screw, but may be safer/quicker to get a new carb. Or maybe swap it for a known good one and see if it runs better, then you know.

An 064 is definitely worth fixing, ~ power of a an MS660 for the weight of an MS460

 

[wigglesworth]

Its possible that it has 2 key slots, I think some of the saws in that lineup did, and they display the same problems, hard to start and would rip your arm off. Check the flywheel for 2 slots.

 

[harrygrey382]

Its possible that it has 2 key slots, I think some of the saws in that lineup did, and they display the same problems, hard to start and would rip your arm off. Check the flywheel for 2 slots.

ah, that is news to me. If that's the case it could well be the problem then. Althoguh I wouldn't have thought it'd run too well at the top end

 

[Evan]

my 084 is a bear to start sometimes. i just have to be meaner then it and know it can hurt me if i dont use the decomp.

i found crud in the decomp so id rather not use it i want it to stay seated shut at all times.

 

[WidowMaker]

I think a comp release valve is the right answer...jmo

 

[backwoods12]

timing

Hi just after some advice.I went cutting fire wood yesterday with an older 064 stihl i only just got it recently.The person i got it of said its terible to start and could break your hand he said i think the timming is advanced.So i went to a chainsaw mechanic and he said he will have a look.I also couldnt get it to idle properly.So i got the saw back and it didnt grab like before and it idled better but still when left for more then a minute on the ground it would stop.Then it would take about five pulls to get it going.The fliter was clean and even when the saw was warm it would take that much to start.The chainsaw mechanic said it needed a new needle,he also put a new spark plug in it and adjusted the carby.It ran well and cut nicely.But was hard to start.Not as hard as before because thats why i orginally went to the machanic for the kicking back or whatever its called the starter cord would rip my hand back it would grab fercily.So back to what i was saying after the machanic just after i brought the saw he tuned it up and he said yeah the timming is proberly advanced but it should not grab as much now he said i didnt touch the timming only the carby spark plug.See how it goes.So i used it put 3 tanks through it and never did it grab once like pull my hand back in.Just wouldnt idle for very long.Anyways 3 weeks later yesterday i used it and all it wanted to do was pull my hand back in i hit my thumb several times and im suprised i can move it today my hand was on the handle as i start it on the ground.So i would pour a little petrol down the carby so it wouldnt grab my hand pull it in but then the thing wouldnt start until about 15pulls the it had to be on half throtle so the chain would spin then it was right until you put the saw down and then it wouldnt idle then i would try and start it and it would pull the starter cord back in violently so id do the petrol thing and then it would still grab ocasionally.So my question is.Is the timming out?How can i fix? will i need a flyweel pulley or could it be something else?Should i leave it?.Is it worth fixing?Once the chainsaw is going and cutting its quite nice to use, doesnt bog down or scream to much, just cuts how it should for that size saw.Its just terrible to start could break my fingers.And it doesnt idle .Well some times it does.Could i get away with useing a starting agent like airo start.Yestrday i could of cut more wood like another 3 tanks if i didnt have to spend the time mucking around trying to start it.Could it need something to do with the electronics as well?

.... defintly give the fly wheel a check could be off
or the coil set to far too close, someting aint right with either one

 

[Sawdustmaker]

Its possible that it has 2 key slots, I think some of the saws in that lineup did, and they display the same problems, hard to start and would rip your arm off. Check the flywheel for 2 slots.

you do not have it in the wrong key slot. if you did it would certainly not run. they are about 40 degrees off from each other. I have had them off before in both directions. You know that is is off. if will flat break your hand if it is in the retarded key slot and you have an standard coil

What is the part number on you coil? there are about four od five it could be. also check to see whther the magnets on the flywheel are lined up with the flywheel close to TDC or 30-40 dgrees before and we can tell you what is going on

 

[Sawdustmaker]

From brads thread

So, to summarized. Both the 1122 400 1314 and the 0000 400 1300 are non-limited coils. Both will have the same amount of timing advance in the cut. But the 1122 400 1314 is a "smart" coil that, among other things, retards timing to ease startup.



1. 1122 400 1307
o Original RL coil
o Rev limited
o Aluminum flywheel
2. 0000 400 1300
o Dumb coil
o Non limited
o Aluminum flywheel
3. 1122 400 1311
o Smart coil??
o Non limited
o Aluminum flywheel
4. 0000 400 1303
o Dumb coil
o Non limited
o Poly flywheel
o Same as used with aluminum flywheel above
5. 0000 400 1305
o Smart coil??
o Non limited
o Poly flywheel
o Can it be used with an aluminum flywheel that has two keyways?
6. 1122 400 1314
o Smart coil
o Non limited
o Poly flywheel
o Can it be used with an aluminum flywheel that has two keyways

 

[the woolfe man]

Thanks

Thanks everyone all try and have a look this week some time to see whats going on.Much appreciated for the help.

 

[huskystihl]

Jees mate - you need to use paragraphs now and then! Anyway -

Paragraphs what are those? Dude if you came here for a grammar lesson you came to the wrong place! Myself included.

 

[blsnelling]

I'm not sure about the 064, but some saws with two keyways in the flywheel will run in the wrong keyway. But they will bite you like a bear trying to do so. You'll now it if you install it in the wrong one.

 

[Mad Professor]

Won't solve the iding problem but an elasto-start cord will make starting easier on the fingers.

 

[Sawdustmaker]

I'm not sure about the 064, but some saws with two keyways in the flywheel will run in the wrong keyway. But they will bite you like a bear trying to do so. You'll now it if you install it in the wrong one.

Yeah, there is no way you could start it like that.... i have gotten it wrong before and it will pull you arm off and a couple of four-letter words out with it.

it is a great joke to pull on someone though. if somone has a limited coil on there 066, just put a regular coil on and...

 

[blsnelling]

Yeah, there is no way you could start it like that.... i have gotten it wrong before and it will pull you arm off and a couple of four-letter words out with it.

it is a great joke to pull on someone though. if somone has a limited coil on there 066, just put a regular coil on and...

I forget now what saw I was working on, but I immediately knew it was in the wrong slot and changed it.

 

[Sawdustmaker]

I forget now what saw I was working on, but I immediately knew it was in the wrong slot and changed it.

i remember pretty well myself...

I do not remember what it was a was working on that i had i t fire that much late. it sure sounded funny trying to start.

 

[the woolfe man]

just reporting back about the 064

Hi all just reporting back on the chainsaw kickback.I didnt have time to have a look at the flyweel.Not that it would of taken long it was just that i didnt have the tools.So i took it to the local stihl shop.He said the it was in the right spot and that no one has touched it so its not advanced.He also put a new stop switch in so that is easyer to use when starting.
So the chainsaw still kick backs. He could feel the kick back but he could start it fine.So When i was starting it id back off a little with my hand thinking it may break my rist as soon as i felt it instead of giving it a real decent pull.So what i do now is pull the cord back with more force and its starting okay.Its idleing much better now as well.He fidled abit with the idle so thats good.This week im going to get new electronic ignition to see if that will help starting it.If you guys out there think that wouldnt be the proberlem at all please let me know.And i wont buy it.
Unfortunately I hadn't looked at the coil or anything like that.I just took it the the machanic.He didn't say anything about the coil just said it mite be the ignition.But he said i cant be for certain and said are you shaw you want a new ignition.
The saw went well and i suppose i cut 8 tonne the last two days so its going good.Is there anyway i could get a muffler mod to make it cut quicker?Or would that be a silly idea?.I don't want to race at this stage.I just use it for fire wood.Any ideas?.And i don't have the money to buy a new saw either.Is there something simple i could do with the muffler?to increase the power.

 

[Sawdustmaker]

This week im going to get new electronic ignition to see if that will help starting it.If you guys out there think that wouldnt be the proberlem at all please let me know.And i wont buy it.
Unfortunately I hadn't looked at the coil or anything like that.I just took it the the machanic.He didn't say anything about the coil just said it mite be the ignition.But he said i cant be for certain and said are you shaw you want a new ignition.

is your coil is sqaurish or is it more roundish?

this is a 0000 400 1303 or 0000 400 1305 i do not remeber which but it is a "dumb" coil

the "smart" ones are more square.

Is there something simple i could do with the muffler?to increase the power.

try a search on that one...

 

[Sawdustmaker]

here a thread about 066 coils

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=61969&highlight=smart+coil

 

[the woolfe man]

proberlem solved

Got a new coil and its much better.Still bites a little but not like before.And also i just pull the cord harder.If i would of new to pull past the bite i would of not worried about the biteing.As i used it for quite a while before i got the new coil.I just wasnt pulling that as hard as I should.Thanks for everyones help.