Looking to get into Fire Contracting in NorCal

[JRoland]

My current truck is only available at 1100 to 1200 gallons which is possible to use for water tender, but I do not think the set up is ideal. JR your set up looks like a 4,000 gallon give or take and I would think that when fire season is over you will not want to drive for awhile. Probably a very good gig with some sell deserved break coming. I have been thinking pretty hard if I would allow my business to take on a tender responsibility. I will be sixty nine next season so not sure how much more gas is in the tank. Thanks

Yep it’s 4000 gallons. They call it a “Tender, Water Type 1”. I was going to call it after the Creek fire until the logger I was working for needs me to cut trees. But then before I even made it home we got sent to the Glass Fire.
I will be happy to go cut trees. In the daytime lol. My wife will be happier as well. I’m hoping.
As far as falling on the fires- the guy I was cutting with right before this is falling on the fire now- but I wasn’t signed up at the start. So next year I think. I think it will be more in my element than the water truck- but I’m getting used to the water tender thing now.
Considering having your own water truck- it seems doable from what I’ve seen and some of the folks I’ve talked to. On a “good “fire year it is a nice gig- but you may end up scraping on a year with not that many fires. Although I’m not sure we’re heading for a year with less fires anytime soon.

 

[Woodslasher]

Yep it’s 4000 gallons.... Considering having your own water truck- it seems doable from what I’ve seen and some of the folks I’ve talked to. On a “good “fire year it is a nice gig- but you may end up scraping on a year with not that many fires. Although I’m not sure we’re heading for a year with less fires anytime soon.

A buddy just got a new water truck and it’s around 7-8k plus a year to register/insure it. He’s a grading contractor, not a fire contractor so insurance would probably be a lot higher. Thanks to Commiefornia’s new laws he had to replace his reliable-but-crappy 1970 Mack, which drives less than 1k miles per year if it moves at all, with a 2010 or newer truck. $600 yearly to insure the old one, thousands per year for the new. Regardless of COVID, this year’s had enough crap going on that dropping 60k on a truck, unknown $ on swapping the tank/plumbing, and 7-8k for registering/insuring something that won’t even be used this year has him pretty ticked. As for less fires, look at the amount of unburned, overgrown, mismanaged brush/timber in CA and you’ll see we have all that’s needed to have tons of huge fires for years to come.

 

[sbhooper]

The problem with wankers from out of state is a common problem. If you knew anything about firefighting you would know that a lack of knowledge regarding local conditions is deadly. Look up "10 and 18s". Showing up to a fire as a freelancer will earn you an escort out of the area by law enforcement. Showing up with a water tender and one driver, or showing up with a chainsaw will get you the same treatment, regardless whether the fire is Cal Fire or federal.

The 63 year old retired hairdresser from Texas who came out (with her son I believe) "to make a little money" who was killed in a crash had no business being here. (That opinion got me kicked of a wildland fire forum). I read she could cut line all day with the boys. Bull. Too many people think wildland firefighting consists of driving around in a Type 6 while the inmate hand crews do all the work.

I have worked a contract water tender and been a contract (CWN) faller. I have worked with several contract fallers who were so much better than I was that I hardly spoke a word so I didn't look like a fool. For the guys that want to come to Cali to work as a faller lets start by asking how many 60" trees have you fallen? Have you hiked in a mile or two carrying everything you need? Who is you module partner? Have you ever worked a burn where snags are falling? There is nothing more dangerous than snags. OK you may not be scared of snags but I am.

Out of staters should stay home unless you have formal training, the required certs, all the required PPE and radios, and have your will made out.

You are talking apples and oranges. When a whole crew of fire fighters show up already nationally certified, it is stupid to have to redo it to "Kalifornia standards". LMAO! SMDH! Stay on subject, instead of interjecting bs.

 

[2dogs]

A buddy just got a new water truck and it’s around 7-8k plus a year to register/insure it. He’s a grading contractor, not a fire contractor so insurance would probably be a lot higher. Thanks to Commiefornia’s new laws he had to replace his reliable-but-crappy 1970 Mack, which drives less than 1k miles per year if it moves at all, with a 2010 or newer truck. $600 yearly to insure the old one, thousands per year for the new. Regardless of COVID, this year’s had enough crap going on that dropping 60k on a truck, unknown $ on swapping the tank/plumbing, and 7-8k for registering/insuring something that won’t even be used this year has him pretty ticked. As for less fires, look at the amount of unburned, overgrown, mismanaged brush/timber in CA and you’ll see we have all that’s needed to have tons of huge fires for years to come.

A few weeks ago I worked with the owner of a timber company and his brand new, less than 30k miles, Freightliner water tender. I can't remember exactly how much it cost him but I think he said $120k. It's no wonder why contractors are paid well. All that plus no guarantee of work.

Incidentally that truck was all electronically controlled and the "hand throttle" wasn't working properly. I had to sit in the cab with the AC on and keep my foot on the gas peddle. It was brutally tough work. Plus the guy was not real happy since all his fire hose was stolen off the back of the tender the night before. Oh and while it was parked all his water was stolen OUT OF THE TANK.

My son is working rehab on two properties. Dang I wish he could clean his saw when he gets home. Yes he gets home after dark but still...

 

[2dogs]

Cal Fire is a s### s####. Out of state fire fighting crews cannot go fight fire there, until they go through Kalifornia fire training. SMDH. The arrogance and stupidity is what has gotten their state in the mess they are now.

BS Hooper you do not know what you are talking about.

 

[slowp]

Going to R-5 (somewhere in Orange County) Thanksgiving 1980. Our crew was a thrown together crew from the Okanogan. I had been learning to scale logs. The loudspeaker in fire camp called us the Oklahoma crew. We were from Warshington. (don't move here). We sat around a bit then finally went out to dig line. They gave us those weird brush cutter things and we had a hard time making progress. The next morning they reluctantly gave up a couple of chainsaws after stating that R-6 crews could not seem to do anything without a chainsaw. We made a lot better progress after getting a couple of saws. We were on steep slopes like we had at home, but these were covered in that tall and thick Chapparel? Manzanita? We made the most money on the day that we were told to build three waterbars. The fire was in the mop up stage and rehab was starting. It didn't take long to build three waterbars. It did take a long time to get picked up and hauled back to camp. We finally got some overtime.

The people in charge seemed very budget conscious and didn't want crews to work longer than 8 hours, even when spiked out. We swore to never return.

 

[catbuster]

Cal Fire has a strong structure and they don’t tun fast and loose. If a crew wants to come in they have to play by the rules. It’s not a hard concept to follow. I was last out there in 2018, and I don’t doubt that with the extreme fire behavior playing by their rules probably kept people alive.

The rules in this line of work we discuss here, be it fire, logging, road building, whatever other affiliated type of work are written in blood.

I’ve been red carded since 2004 (yeah yeah, nothing compared to some of you) and you may not like it but, dude, being nationally certified does not equal qualified. Certified means you have S-130, S-190, whatever ICS classes are required now, (I dunno, I’m up to 800 now) a field day, and a pack test done. Qualified means the whole crew knows the local terrain, conditions and has been around long enough to know when things are going around in the type of area they’re in. Cal Fire has tried to help this by California specific training.

Stop talking out of your ass. Not everybody likes the state, and that’s fine. However, that in no way means everything about the state is bad. I’d like to see some rules like Cal Fire has for crews traveling from region to region. You know, trying to make things so there’s a better chance of going home.

 

[JRoland]

The last two fires I’ve been at ( Creek and Glass Fires) there were crews from all over the place. Texas, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, New Mexico, and various agencies from in California. All in all, thing went pretty smoothly, in my opinion ( disclaimer- I’ve never logged or worked on fires outside of California).
As my buddy said at the fire- “ There’s a lot of moving parts here”.
Why not have a standard that everyone is trained to/ competent at prior to arriving?
If that standard is higher than other standards, so be it. I’d hate to be the person who let some qualifier / standard slide to get more people on the scene and then have something happen to one of those folks.

 

[slowp]

The last two fires I’ve been at ( Creek and Glass Fires) there were crews from all over the place. Texas, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, New Mexico, and various agencies from in California. All in all, thing went pretty smoothly, in my opinion ( disclaimer- I’ve never logged or worked on fires outside of California).
As my buddy said at the fire- “ There’s a lot of moving parts here”.
Why not have a standard that everyone is trained to/ competent at prior to arriving?
If that standard is higher than other standards, so be it. I’d hate to be the person who let some qualifier / standard slide to get more people on the scene and then have something happen to one of those folks.

I have always been told that we do have national standards. That's what all the training is for. Hotshot crews are also known as IR crews, the IR stands for Inter Regional meaning that they can go anywhere. Unless Calfire is changing things on their own fires, the national standards should qualify folks to go to other areas. Local knowledge is a good thing, but in the bigger picture, it can be discussed at the morning briefings but crews have to use their own judgement and err on the safe side. For instance, we had smokejumpers walk off a fire on the Gifford Pinchot NF because they considered it to be too steep. On that slope, was a plantation where years before, we "locals" had worked all over it doing a broadcast burn. We were used to our type of topography. Just about every unit had a cliff in it part way down but there was also always a way to get through and down the cliff without dying. That was our local knowledge. The smokejumpers probably didn't know that, nor was it a "controlled " burn and made the decision that they were comfortable with. That's what you do.

The Forest Service ships folks all over the country.

 

[sbhooper]

BS Hooper you do not know what you are talking about.

Riiiggghhht! Some crews hate going there. The only good thing is the money. The rest is crap.

 

[2dogs]

Well BS Hooper crews coming to California to make money working fire do present a problem. When 3 out off shape fat guys show up, self dispatched, on a fire in our mountains trouble follows. They get paid all right but they can't be sent on difficult assignments for obvious reasons. Little volunteer departments from all over the west want a piece of the pie but contribute little to nothing to the outcome of the fire. Most of these volunteer departments come from inside Cali, they fund raise for a type 3 or type 6 telling their residents they will get more protection but then leave at the drop of a hat. That is BS too.

 

[sbhooper]

OK, genius. If you are accusing contract crews that have been fighting fires all over the west for many years, of being fat and worthless, then we have issues. I would put my kid's contract crew up against any federal IHC anywhere. Anybody that has fought fire all over the west for an entire season, but has to recertify to "be given the "privilege" of fighting fires in Kalifornia, should be totally offended and pissed off. Kalifornia does not run the entire country-except in their own bureaucratic minds. LMFAO! Incredible.

 

[Spotted Owl]

my kid's

My kid is

interjecting bs.

Hey Genius, why don’t you get some first hand experience then come back. Until then shut your hole, you’re the one interjecting bs, and third hand BS at that. If you don’t want the strait scoop from people that live the situation and deal with it every season, well I guess it’s true what they say about fixing stupid.

We just got done with some of them "certified, we’ve done it all” nightmare people up here. They're a catastrophe waiting to happen and when they do happen they usually take good people with them. Maybe that’s what some jurisdictions are trying to avoid. But hey, you don’t like it so we should change the rules for your kid, right. California isn’t trying to run the entire country, just California, if your boy don’t like it he can stay out of the sand box and play somewhere else.



Owl