Oak Trees located next to driveway

[Henry]

I'm considering planting several Oak trees along my driveway. This driveway 15' wide and 4" thick. The house is located on the other side of the planting location. My concern is as the trees grow they will crack and lift the concrete driveway. Can someone offer me some advice as to my concern.

Thanks,

Henry

 

[Sheshovel]

Yes they will grow and eventually crack your driveway.Also Oak leaves have a chemical called Tanin in them that will stain your drive way unless the leaves are constantly kept off of it.

 

[Elmore]

I wouldn't plant oaks. Consider ...hmmm...Ginkgoes or smaller trees like Shantung or Trident Maples. In my experience I have found large Ginkgoes less damaging to pavement and curbing than most other large trees. Here is a good PDF link to a list of trees.
http://www.psat.wa.gov/Publications/LID_tech_manual05/09_app1.pdf
You could also incorporate root barriers such as found in this article.
http://www.igin.com/Landscaping/rootbarriers.html

 

[treeseer]

How far from the driveway?

What kind of oak?

If you cultivate your soil deeply, the tree roots will grow deeper.

 

[Henry]

The trees would be about 5' from the driveway edge. The Oaks would be live Oaks. The soil here is clay with a rpck substrate.

Henru

 

[Elmore]

The trees would be about 5' from the driveway edge. The Oaks would be live Oaks. The soil here is clay with a rpck substrate.

Henru

Sounds like a plan...a very poor one.

 

[treeseer]

Live oak is majestic and long-lived, with a crown that can spread up to twice its height. *it does not tolerate poorly drained soils* or extremely well-drained deep sand. Its small, leathery gray-green leaves are evergreen except when it reaches the northern part of its range (zone 7a), when it becomes semi-evergreen. Its primary liability is its *susceptibility to the oak wilt fungus,* although it hasn't hit Q. virginiana as severely as Escarpment Live Oak, Q. fusiformis. It is also somewhat cold sensitive in the northern parts of the state.
Plant Habit or Use: medium tree large tree
Height: 40 to 50 ft. *Width: 80 to 100 ft.*

This from http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/quercusvirginiana.htm

It pays to research *these things*. Conullt your local extension sevice for a list of choices, based on a soil test, which they can help you with.

Planting trees is very rewarding, if good planning comes first.

 

[Sheshovel]

How far from the driveway?

What kind of oak?

If you cultivate your soil deeply, the tree roots will grow deeper.

Treeseer..I disagree most tree roots 90% of a trees roots are the feeding roots and are grown in the top 12 to 18" of the soil .Only the roots that secure the tree go deeper but not neccesarily streight down either.

 

[treeseer]

90% of a trees roots are the feeding roots and are grown in the top 12 to 18" of the soil .Only the roots that secure the tree go deeper .

I think this varies widely; many feeder roots are in the top 6" only in some soils. But these are not the concrete-crackers the poster is concerned about. (The dichotomy here is not clear, because anchor roots can also take up water, but that's another thread).

The general rule that the better the environment for root growth, the more roots will grow, still stands.

Henry, you can find a tree that grows smaller and also gives you what you wanted. What was it about live oaks that you want to see along your driveway? See "Tree Selection" in the link below.

 

[corky k]

Henry, I would go ahead and do it.

Keeping the trees 5 feet away from the driveway is a safe distance. I can show you you huge live oaks here in Cal (Q. agrifolia/Q. wisliznii not Q. viginiana) that are much closer to pavement and causing no problems. They are sometimes street trees in 6-8' wide planters. The fact is that large trees (with shallower roots than oaks) are planted much closer to pavement ALL THE TIME.

You should still check out local conditions - i.e. How much root damage do live oaks do in your area? Unless they cause obvious problems, go for it.

In the end, the tree can only do more good than harm and a cracked driveway is only a cracked driveway.

Arborists, don't be too safe and conservative. If a problem arises, Henry might even hire one of you.

 

[Elmore]

Henry, I would go ahead and do it.

Keeping the trees 5 feet away from the driveway is a safe distance. I can show you you huge live oaks here in Cal (Q. agrifolia/Q. wisliznii not Q. viginiana) that are much closer to pavement and causing no problems. They are sometimes street trees in 6-8' wide planters. The fact is that large trees (with shallower roots than oaks) are planted much closer to pavement ALL THE TIME.

You should still check out local conditions - i.e. How much root damage do live oaks do in your area? Unless they cause obvious problems, go for it.

In the end, the tree can only do more good than harm and a cracked driveway is only a cracked driveway.

Arborists, don't be too safe and conservative. If a problem arises, Henry might even hire one of you.

I would suggest that you consult with a Landscape Designer first. heh heh

 

[Elmore]

For perspective here are a couple of Live Oak in Mobile, AL

 

[Diesel JD]

None of us will be around to see them looking like that that is for sure...but the point is that they grow big..they are beautiful and at leas in my area...seem very tolerant of eevrything man or nature can throw at them. IE I don't see a lot of dead ones. I have seen them crack sidewalks though some of the sidewalks over at UF campus are hard to navigate witha bike because of live oak root damage.

 

[corky k]

Elmore, nice photos. It's amazing how similar a southern live oak is in form and character to our California live oaks. Of course we all know that those huge trees have been growing in ideal conditions for over a century. Henry's oaks will never look like that.

By the way, I am a landscape designer (actually a registered land. architect) so he's already consulted with one.

 

[Elmore]

Now your bad advice about planting live oaks five feet from the driveway makes sense...........

Dan

heh heh Dan you crack me up

 

[Elmore]

Elmore, nice photos. It's amazing how similar a southern live oak is in form and character to our California live oaks. Of course we all know that those huge trees have been growing in ideal conditions for over a century. Henry's oaks will never look like that.

By the way, I am a landscape designer (actually a registered land. architect) so he's already consulted with one.

Landscape architect...I knew that, I read your profile before I posted that.
My point was that he might get better advice from a certified landscape designer. My experience with architects, designers and horticulturists is that in general you get more sound advice from the horticulturist then the designer and so on. That's not to say that all landscape architects are incompetent but I feel that many that I have worked with were ignorant of "the right plant, right place". Corkey, you may have many good ideas but planting a large species like Quercus virginiana five feet from the driveway is not one of them. Now if you had suggested an allée of fastigiate Ginkgoes I might be whistling a different tune. I mean that literally.

<img src="http://www.chiffandfipple.com/freewa~1.jpg">

 

[corky k]

Guys, guys, guys...

As you know, trees adapt to their environments. A live oak in the wild, with plenty of access to light and moisture, and good, uncompacted soil, etc., will grow very large over a very long time. A live oak planted 5 feet from a driveway, with compacted soil, likely in less than ideal urban conditions, will not grow nearly as large. 24-30" trunk max.

Have you not seen large tree species planted 5 feet from pavement (ie in a 10' or smaller planter)? I see it a lot - usually in 8' planters - with little to no negative consequences. Henry is in Texas, where shade from large canopy trees is very valuable. It is worth it to take a minor chance of cracking a driveway for the known, guaranteed benefits of the live oaks.

By the way, I would never advise planting large trees 5' from a house foundation. Nor would I advise planting liquidambers or mulberry's ' from the driveway. But this is only a driveway and these are oaks. Context is everything and these are the right trees in the right place.

Lets have an honest debate. I've given plenty of reasoning for my position. Now you can answer them, without despariging my profession. Thanks.

 

[Dadatwins]

I think based on the known soil conditions and the likely situation of planting so close to the driveway and it most likely cracking, a better tree choice than live oak should be made. Trees can adapt to a situation but if I was advising a client to spend their money on tree planting I would want them to spend it on the best tree /s for the location they can, not a 5 - 10 year band-aid. Right Tree - Right Place, just because the root ball fits in the hole, doesn't mean the tree selection was a success. JMHO

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Hmmm. Anybody look at those pics of Live Oaks in Mobile? Sure look big to me.

Sure look a lot closer than 5 feet to that concrete.


That old looking concrete.


That UNCRACKED concrete.


Why, it almost looks like the tree grew along the concrete, instead of just growing INTO it.


Nah, couldn't be...

 

[Elmore]

Hmmm. Anybody look at those pics of Live Oaks in Mobile? Sure look big to me.

Sure look a lot closer than 5 feet to that concrete.


That old looking concrete.


That UNCRACKED concrete.


Why, it almost looks like the tree grew along the concrete, instead of just growing INTO it.


Nah, couldn't be...

The tree was there before any paving. The tree was not planted five feet from the street or five miles from the street. The tree likely predates Mobile. I think that is recent paving and judging by the unusual shape of the root buttress, it is likely that road crews and this tree have been doing battle for centuries. Here is another picture of a smaller, younger Live Oak having eaten a curb.

<img src="http://home.att.net/~llrosner/Fall2004/Web3/BeaufortStreets.JPG">