Oak Trees located next to driveway

[jimmyq]

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[corky k]

gotta throw my .02 in .

No worries, I appreciate what a landscape architect does and I try to understand the different ways that we come to a jobsite and to a solution. I find if I say to clients that landscape architects are coming from an architectural thought process where I or landscape designers come from an artistic thought process. Finding someone who is good at combining those left and right brained skills or attributes is hard to do but, that person would make a great designer. In my area the society of landscape architects, the landscape and nursery association and the ISA chapter are trying to get the different groups together and more interactive. Why not? The more I can show my passion for trees and the reasons behind it and conversely listen to landscape architects tell me where they get their passion or creativity and knowledge from, the better we can all interact and build better landscapes.

Well said, Jimmy. Let's get together and discuss the issues, just like w're doing in this forum. By the way, in landscape architecture we try to incorporate both the technical/engineering and the artistry/aethetics. I would think landscape designers would try to do the same, but on a smaller scale.

One other point that I just thought of - those oaks will take thirty years to grow large enough to crack the driveway. By that time, the driveway will likely need to be replaced anyway.

In my city, sidewalks and curbs are often replaced (maybe after some judicious root pruning) after they've been damaged by tree roots. And you know, that's okay. Big tree's are worth it, and we need them. Thank goodness we don't plant small or fastigate trees everywhere to spare the flatwork.

I assume these oaks would be in an urban or suburban setting where land is in short supply and Henry cannot plant them more than 5' away. If it is in the country, by all means plant them further away.

But most of our tree plantings (and our need for trees) occur in denser situations. By necessity, trees will be planted closer to sidewalks, curbs and driveways than some people would like. I'm not too upset if a few of them are cracked in the process. Big trees are worth it.

 

[Trinity Honoria]

One other point that I just thought of - those oaks will take thirty years to grow large enough to crack the driveway. By that time, the driveway will likely need to be replaced anyway.

that's grand-- built in obsolescence. for years i've had gentlemen (and i use that term sarcastically) advise me to get only a 2 year battery because "you aren't going to keep the car much past that" etc... well, i do keep my cars a long time-- they're paid for and keep on running. not all of us think of changing frequently to keep up with others or to 'move up in the world.' many of us think in terms of permanence.

as i'm moving into planting, i will NOT be asking people who are giving me advice for what "looks pretty today and the next 5 years," but for the long haul... i don't want to create a problem for myself in 10 years or the next owner in 30 years... i'll ask people who can tell me what works for my land, for the area, and suits my taste... and incorporate all three factors into the plan.

corky, by your picture you're considerably younger than i am-- i hope you learn over the years in your business and stop giving advice that is only good for the short term. only the young & foolish, or addicts think in of momentary pleasure.


{ok, i'm done now}

 

[Elmore]

Big tree's are worth it, and we need them. Thank goodness we don't plant small or fastigate trees everywhere to spare the flatwork.

I assume these oaks would be in an urban or suburban setting where land is in short supply and Henry cannot plant them more than 5' away. If it is in the country, by all means plant them further away.

But most of our tree plantings (and our need for trees) occur in denser situations. By necessity, trees will be planted closer to sidewalks, curbs and driveways than some people would like. I'm not too upset if a few of them are cracked in the process. Big trees are worth it.

"fastigate"???
Do you know what you/we are talking about?

 

[Dadatwins]

Well said, Jimmy. Let's get together and discuss the issues, just like w're doing in this forum. By the way, in landscape architecture we try to incorporate both the technical/engineering and the artistry/aethetics. I would think landscape designers would try to do the same, but on a smaller scale.

One other point that I just thought of - those oaks will take thirty years to grow large enough to crack the driveway. By that time, the driveway will likely need to be replaced anyway.

In my city, sidewalks and curbs are often replaced (maybe after some judicious root pruning) after they've been damaged by tree roots. And you know, that's okay. Big tree's are worth it, and we need them. Thank goodness we don't plant small or fastigate trees everywhere to spare the flatwork.

I assume these oaks would be in an urban or suburban setting where land is in short supply and Henry cannot plant them more than 5' away. If it is in the country, by all means plant them further away.

But most of our tree plantings (and our need for trees) occur in denser situations. By necessity, trees will be planted closer to sidewalks, curbs and driveways than some people would like. I'm not too upset if a few of them are cracked in the process. Big trees are worth it.

This is the big reason why landscrapers and arborist need to communicate better from the beginning of the planting process. Landscaper plants the tree, collects the check and moves on, 10-15 years later homeowner calls an arborist to fix the problems left over by poor planting choices. When the arborist has to tell the homeowner that cutting out the roots on the poorly chosen tree for the location will probably kill it, the arborist looks like a $$ grabber. This is the reason there are CHOICES of trees to plant and not all trees are the best choice. The arborists' job will become a lot easier when the landscapers designers and architects that plant trees think further ahead than the check clearing and think about the tree at maturity and what will affected. I wish there was a landscape design computer program that could project tree growth in 10 year increments so the homeowner might get a better idea of what to expect also.

 

[Sheshovel]

I am a professional LandSCAPER and though there are many out there who do do as you have described,I for one do NOT.I research the tree's I suggest for my clients and refuse to plant a tree in an area where I know it is going to have to be removed when mature because of damage problems,debri problems,or neighbor problems.This is ethical Landscape planning.I don't worry about my check near as much as I worry about the right tree in the right place.

 

[Dadatwins]

Good for you Sheshovel, wish there were more like you doing this both as a service to the customers and the industry.

 

[Trinity Honoria]

This is ethical Landscape planning.I don't worry about my check near as much as I worry about the right tree in the right place.

from a homeowner, a potential client, your style is what i'd be looking for... therefore, although you might not be as focused on your check today, your philosophy will build a strong and stable business over the long haul... your reputation will assure ongoing business with clients you build relationship with, and new business from their referrals...

 

[Sheshovel]

Yes and that it has!

 

[corky k]

Let me try to clear up some confusion.

"that's grand-- built in obsolescence."

Most driveways will fail in 30 years or so. It's a fact, not a conspiracy. It's also not a big deal.

"corky, by your picture you're considerably younger than i am-- i hope you learn over the years in your business and stop giving advice that is only good for the short term. only the young & foolish, or addicts think in of momentary pleasure."

I assure you, my advice has nothing to do with momentary pleasure. Read my posts.

""fastigate"???
Do you know what you/we are talking about?"

Sorry for the mis-spelling! Fastigiate, okay. Relax, I was only one letter off.

"Landscaper plants the tree, collects the check and moves on, 10-15 years later homeowner calls an arborist to fix the problems left over by poor planting choices."

A landscape architect's fee would not be any different if the design called for oaks, ginkgos or marigolds. And, we are often called in to redesign old landscapes, and therefore must deal with past mistakes.

This is a question of cost verses benefit. If the oaks are planted 5' from the driveway, we have an almost certain benefit of plentiful shade and beauty, plus that increased benefits (over those of smaller trees) to air and water quality, property value, energy savings , etc. etc. The cost (over that of a smaller tree) is a minor possibility of a cracked driveway. Life is a series of tradeoffs, and I think this is a good trade.

 

[Trinity Honoria]

Let me try to clear up some confusion.

"that's grand-- built in obsolescence."

Most driveways will fail in 30 years or so. It's a fact, not a conspiracy. It's also not a big deal.

"corky, by your picture you're considerably younger than i am-- i hope you learn over the years in your business and stop giving advice that is only good for the short term. only the young & foolish, or addicts think in of momentary pleasure."

I assure you, my advice has nothing to do with momentary pleasure. Read my posts.

i read your posts.

my comments stand.

 

[treeseer]

Corky, since live oaks are wider than they are tall, are they the right tree for this place?

 

[pinus]

I see that this thread is progressed a quite long time. The only thing what I like to add is the reference to the most common mistake made by humans trying to beatuify the landscape.
We forget that trees are not steady in time. There is countless number of trees that will be cutted down because they were getting too large. Avenues in towns are most common case here

 

[pinus]

I feel that my last post in such philosophical form can be rather useless.
What I like to add is the point that trees planted near roads and close to the buildings should be choosed from species that are very tolerate to the pruning. Pruning retards the development of big root ball too, IMO.
In other way, there will be a moment when the only solution seem being the cutting down of the tree.

 

[treeseer]

Keep posting, pinus. You make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Dadatwins]

A landscape architect's fee would not be any different if the design called for oaks, ginkgos or marigolds. And, we are often called in to redesign old landscapes, and therefore must deal with past mistakes.

This is a question of cost verses benefit. If the oaks are planted 5' from the driveway, we have an almost certain benefit of plentiful shade and beauty, plus that increased benefits (over those of smaller trees) to air and water quality, property value, energy savings , etc. etc. The cost (over that of a smaller tree) is a minor possibility of a cracked driveway.

The fee was never the question, the advice given for the fee is in question. You say you are called in to redesign old landscapes and deal with past mistakes, can you describe some past mistakes? Were any of those past mistakes having to do with trees that have overgrown the area and must now be removed? What is the average age of these landscapes that need to be redesigned? I agree that larger trees offer more value, energy saving, ect but the proper choice of large tree must also be considered. The original question of this thread was asking if live oak should be planted 5 feet from an existing driveway and I still say no, and have not been convinced otherwise.

 

[Sheshovel]

Agreed.. you won't convince me either that it is better to plant a big tree where it has to be destroyed in it's prime... than to plant a tree that is best for the space and gives the client the benefit of shade as well.
Also if you are needing quick growing temporary shade tree's for that space..
Oak is not one that would even enter my mind to suggest

 

[treeseer]

Try a Melea toosendens. I get 5'/yr out of them, they are self-raising, and their roots grow deep.

 

[Trinity Honoria]

Try a Melea toosendens. I get 5'/yr out of them, they are self-raising, and their roots grow deep.

i tried to find info on this tree, but Google & the "treesaregood" site couldn't show me anything... is the spelling correct???

 

[treeseer]

"Melia toosendens - new species of "Chinaberry" from Asia - pale blue flowers; white fruit in winter."

Sorry Trin, I misspelled. The one at the arb matured at 40' tall. Gorgeous tree, tho the leaves are not bluish like M. azderach.