Oregon 511A Chain Grinder Expert Help Please

[Houseman]

Gentlemen, I've been hand sharpening chains for many years and recently my workplace inherited a used Oregon 511A grinder in excellent condition. Please help me straighten out some confusion with 1) wheel sizes for specific chains, and 2) correct machines angles for Stihl chain (several sizes and styles).


It came with 3 grinding wheels: 1/4" for rakers, and 2 off brand wheels (Pal Maxicut) that are a bit different in size than the standard Oregon wheels. The Pal wheels are 3 mm and 4.5 mm vs. the standard 1/8" (3.2mm) and 3/16" (4.8mm). This is one point of confusion.

Chains I have are for a arborist saw MS191T : 61PMMC3 3/8 pitch (tiny cutter)
MS260: 26RSC (semi chisel) and 26RMC (chipper) .325 pitch some safety, some not.
MS362: 33RSC and 33RMC 3/8 pitch some safety, some not

Questions:

1.) Are the "undersized" Pal wheels o.k., or should I get the standard Oregon thicknesses?

2.) Which wheel size is correct for the three chain sizes above?


Machine angles: The Stihl tech sheet with the chains doesn't correlate with the saw manuals. And, there are some angles that confuse me.

The main cutter angle is 30 degrees for ALL of the above saws. The tech. sheet shows another angle of 60degrees for the RSC and 75 degrees (85 in the manual) for the RMC, referring to it as the SIDE PLATE ANGLE.

3.) Is this SIDE PLATE ANGLE (60, 75, or 85!!) what I set the 511A motor/wheel angle to????


Any help on the 3 numbered questions is appreciated. Thank you very much. I intend to continue hand sharpening, but use this machine to correct damaged chains (dirt/rocks) and even out the cutter lengths, etc..

 

[watsonr]

I use 60* and 30* for all my chains no matter the brand and leave it set-up that way. The 1/4 wheel is used for 1/2" chain and the rakers if you want. The 3/16 is for .404 and 3/8 chain and the 1/8 is for .325.

Hope that helps.

 

[hamish]

http://www.oregonchain.com/pdf/chain/72LGX_F&B.pdf as a referance


Your #3 would be the head tilt angle.

 

[J.Walker]

Stick with hand filing the 3/8's LP chain but use your grinder vice to hold the chain.

 

[Brian VT]

Stick with hand filing the 3/8's LP chain but use your grinder vice to hold the chain.

He could use the 1/8" wheel though ? I'm new to grinding too, but I think that's correct.

 

[J.Walker]

Yest that wheel size is correct for 3/8's LP chain.

 

[timmcat]

Grinding

I grind anywhere from 20 to 100 chains a week, I leave the angle on the back of the grinder at 55 degrees, and the cutter angle for the top plat at 25 degrees. Some will argue that thats to shallow an angle, but i've never had a complaint from a customer, and for the most part when you get back to the witness mark on the top of the tooth it lines up perfectly. The biggest problem I have with my 511a is the vise and the tooth indexer. I've welded the tooth indexer to build it back up alot of times but it keeps wearing out and letting the teeth rock a little back when you grind them. I have a Foley Belsaw grinder that I do my rakers with, it works good because it has the adjustment on the vise to compensate for stone wear.
Oh, and I use the 3/16 wheel for 72,73,75,21,22,20 and the 1/8 for 90,91,33,34,35. I dont differentiate between oregon and stihl for the chains, to me a 3/8 .050 square chisel is just that regardless of manufacturer.

 

[Sagetown]

60* on your top plate angle is standard for all your chains. Tilt angle set at 10* for all but the 63PM 3/8 chain.
The 23; 25; 26RS .325" calls for 25* on the Vise Angle
The 33; 35; 36RS 3/8" calls for 25* on the Vise and the 33RM1 calls for 35*
No data on the 61PM, but the 63PM 3/8" calls for 30* on the Vise + 0* on the Tilt angle.

The 1/8" Wheel can be used on all the above. A 3/16" wheel can be sub'd for on the 3/8" chains

 

[Houseman]

Thank you for the replies.

I'm still not sure about the middle size .325 chain. The Oregon wheel specs. for the 1/8 and 3/16 overlap on the .325, depending on chain series (for Oregon chain numbers, not Stihl). When I cross referenced to get an Oregon chain number (22BPX), I am inclined to think that the 3/16" is appropriate for the Stihl .325, which is different than what watsonr says.


Comments?

From the 511AX PDF:
OR534-18 1/8", 3.2mm 1/4", .325" (30-series only) and 3/8" (90 and 91-series only)
OR534-316 3/16", 4.8mm .325 (except 30-series), 3/8" (except 90 and 91-series) and .404

Other sites (Baileys) suggest that the 1/8" is correct for the .325. :bang:


EDIT: Sagetown, your angles of 25* and 10* tilt are different than the Stihl sheet that comes with all their chains (30* and 0 tilt).

 

[Sagetown]

If there are discrepencies, set the positions on you grinder both way to compare with the chain tooth, then pick the one that suits you best.

 

[lambs]

You should download the manual that originally came with the grinder. If you need a copy, PM me. I have both a 511a and the NT knockoff of it. They're decent grinders, especially if you can get one at a good price.

1/8" wheel is for all .325 pitch chain and the 3/8 pitch low pro chain (the tiny cutters).
3/16" wheel is for regular 3/8 pitch chain, whether or not it is safety chain.
The wheels you have are not quite the right size, so I'd buy replacements, but keep the wheels you have for use on cutters that are well worn. They'll work fine at that point because a worn down cutter actually needs a smaller wheel anyway.

Angle recommendations differ by manufacturer. I run Stihl chain exclusively, and for safety chain (aka semi-chisel or RM type chain), I set it at 60 / 30. If it's chisel chain (aka RS type), I use the same settings but also use the 10 degree saddle tilt to get the chisel points resurfaced properly. The manual will explain how to set that. I too have seen Stihl's recommendation on some chains for 85 degrees, but it makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone else can explain. But I stick with 60 and it works for what I use.

You could also order Molemab wheels from Bailey's, one of our sponsors. If you do, also order a dressing brick, and it should come with a template for dressing the various wheels. This is a very handy thing to have around.

Good luck.

 

[Houseman]

You should download the manual that originally came with the grinder.

1/8" wheel is for all .325 pitch chain and the 3/8 pitch low pro chain (the tiny cutters).
3/16" wheel is for regular 3/8 pitch chain, whether or not it is safety chain.

The wheels you have are not quite the right size, so I'd buy replacements, but keep the wheels you have for use on cutters that are well worn. They'll work fine at that point because a worn down cutter actually needs a smaller wheel anyway.

Angle recommendations differ by manufacturer. I run Stihl chain exclusively, and for safety chain (aka semi-chisel or RM type chain), I set it at 60 / 30. If it's chisel chain (aka RS type), I use the same settings but also use the 10 degree saddle tilt to get the chisel points resurfaced properly. The manual will explain how to set that. I too have seen Stihl's recommendation on some chains for 85 degrees, but it makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone else can explain. But I stick with 60 and it works for what I use.

Good luck.

I did more investigation and did download the manual.

The Oregon chain for our MS260 is a 22BPX or LPX. The grinder manual and other sources recommend the 3/16" wheel for this .325 "20 series" chain. I assume this would be the same for the Stihl 26RSC or RMC chain?

I concur that Oregon's angles differ that Stihls......25 vs 30, 55 vs. 60, 10 tilt vs. 0. Interesting.

HMMMMM......at this point the evidence is suggesting 3/16" for the .325, on which several of you guys differ.

Thanks again for the input. Still confused by the different recommendations for the .325 chain. It really shouldn't be this hard!

 

[Arrowhead]

Gentlemen, I've been hand sharpening chains for many years and recently my workplace inherited a used Oregon 511A grinder in excellent condition. Please help me straighten out some confusion with 1) wheel sizes for specific chains, and 2) correct machines angles for Stihl chain (several sizes and styles).


It came with 3 grinding wheels: 1/4" for rakers, and 2 off brand wheels (Pal Maxicut) that are a bit different in size than the standard Oregon wheels. The Pal wheels are 3 mm and 4.5 mm vs. the standard 1/8" (3.2mm) and 3/16" (4.8mm). This is one point of confusion.

Chains I have are for a arborist saw MS191T : 61PMMC3 3/8 pitch (tiny cutter) 1/8"
MS260: 26RSC (semi chisel) and 26RMC (chipper) .325 pitch some safety, some not. 1/8"
MS362: 33RSC and 33RMC 3/8 pitch some safety, some not 3/16"

Questions:

1.) Are the "undersized" Pal wheels o.k., or should I get the standard Oregon thicknesses?

2.) Which wheel size is correct for the three chain sizes above?


Machine angles: The Stihl tech sheet with the chains doesn't correlate with the saw manuals. And, there are some angles that confuse me.

The main cutter angle is 30 degrees for ALL of the above saws. The tech. sheet shows another angle of 60degrees for the RSC and 75 degrees (85 in the manual) for the RMC, referring to it as the SIDE PLATE ANGLE.

3.) Is this SIDE PLATE ANGLE (60, 75, or 85!!) what I set the 511A motor/wheel angle to????


Any help on the 3 numbered questions is appreciated. Thank you very much. I intend to continue hand sharpening, but use this machine to correct damaged chains (dirt/rocks) and even out the cutter lengths, etc..

I have the 511A. Use Molemab or other quality wheels. I sharpen hundreds of chains. I ALWAYS use 60 degree down and mostly 30 degrees on the vise. You honestly do not need to follow the factory specs. 99% of the people here will agree a 60/30 is hard to beat on any chain. Sometimes I go 35 on the vice on semi-chisel.

 

[Arrowhead]

I did more investigation and did download the manual.

The Oregon chain for our MS260 is a 22BPX or LPX. The grinder manual and other sources recommend the 3/16" wheel for this .325 "20 series" chain. I assume this would be the same for the Stihl 26RSC or RMC chain?

I concur that Oregon's angles differ that Stihls......25 vs 30, 55 vs. 60, 10 tilt vs. 0. Interesting.

HMMMMM......at this point the evidence is suggesting 3/16" for the .325, on which several of you guys differ.

Thanks again for the input. Still confused by the different recommendations for the .325 chain. It really shouldn't be this hard!

I've used 1/8 and 3/16 on .325. I feel the 1/8" does a better job. Oregon .325 LP is my favorite chain on the mid to smaller saws.

 

[Brian VT]

...on some chains for 85 degrees, but it makes no sense to me.

I was just looking at the box of an old Homelite chain I have. It calls for 85 deg. side plate angle and 60 deg. edge angle.

 

[watsonr]

File/grind it to the way you prefer. If you want to change angles every time you change brand, then do so. Most of the manufacturers recommends a different angle for there brand. 60/30 has worked for me on every brand, keeps me from having to figure out which brand, which angle and all that bologna and chains with those angles seem to cut very well. Used those for over 35 years that way, I'm sure lots of guys will or will not say the same thing.

Its a place to start and if it doesn't cut good for you experiment with the angles a little until you find what works for you and your cutting style.

Same comment for the 3/8- 3/16 stone and the .325- 1/8 stone....either will work. I prefer to change the stone to 1/8 for .325 as that works very well and its easy. Pick-up a .325 chain and change stones, pick-up a 3/8 chain and use 3/16 just because it works for me. I'm not trying to guess which angle with which brand and which stone.

1/2" I use a 1/4 stone
3/8" and .404, I use 3/16 stone
.325 I use a 1/8 stone

and use 60/30 on all my chains, semi-chisel, full chisel, chipper, lowpro, safety, pico...whatever


DONE!:msp_wink:

 

[Fish]

The stone thickness is not as critical as a file, as the side plate angle you are trying to achieve is accomplished by the side of the wheel,
and on a file is determined by the correct size and use of the file.

The tilt feature is for the full chisel chain only.

My angles otherwise are 60 and 30.

 

[ncfarmboy]

File/grind it to the way you prefer. If you want to change angles every time you change brand, then do so. Most of the manufacturers recommends a different angle for there brand. 60/30 has worked for me on every brand, keeps me from having to figure out which brand, which angle and all that bologna and chains with those angles seem to cut very well. Used those for over 35 years that way, I'm sure lots of guys will or will not say the same thing.

Its a place to start and if it doesn't cut good for you experiment with the angles a little until you find what works for you and your cutting style.

Same comment for the 3/8- 3/16 stone and the .325- 1/8 stone....either will work. I prefer to change the stone to 1/8 for .325 as that works very well and its easy. Pick-up a .325 chain and change stones, pick-up a 3/8 chain and use 3/16 just because it works for me. I'm not trying to guess which angle with which brand and which stone.

1/2" I use a 1/4 stone
3/8" and .404, I use 3/16 stone
.325 I use a 1/8 stone

and use 60/30 on all my chains, semi-chisel, full chisel, chipper, lowpro, safety, pico...whatever


DONE!:msp_wink:

Same for me!!! Add 1/4" stone for rakers and 1/2".
Shep

 

[Sagetown]

Same for me!!! Add 1/4" stone for rakers and 1/2".
Shep

A few times I've run my chains through the vice and use a dremel tool to reshape the rakers that are too high.

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
Lots of good tips here. If you're going to be taking your wheels on and off frequently, you'll find that the arbor to wheel fit will get looser with age. The problem comes in when you don't get the wheel where it was the last time you dressed it, it'll shake like a dog that ate a peach pit.
What you need to do is match mark the arbor, and your wheels. I usually scratch a mark on the face of the center of the arbor. When you install the wheel for the first time, have the arbor match mark in the 12:00 position, and then use a pen, or pencil and make a mark on the label of the wheel.
If you do this, when you switch wheels you'll only have to clean the wheel rather than trying to dress it back to round.
Some people say they don't mind a little vibration but, there's other things going on. When the wheel is out of round, it doesn't stay in contact with the tooth for the whole revolution. So even if you can stand the vibration, the part of the wheel that is contacting the tooth is loading up quicker, and heating the tooth faster than it should be.
One other tip is when your grinding, make sure to grind deep enough to get the whole thickness of the top plate on to the side of the wheel.
Regards
Gregg