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People in the USA (Ethanol)

Goinwheelin

Goinwheelin

Clandestine Saw Operations
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
767
Location
Yakivegas.
No. it’s a safe way to increase octane. Just a small adjustment to storage is all it takes.
Just a small amount of effort.
Of course it raises octane. The subject was the use of corn for fuel or food.
Corn= increase octane and decrease fuel mileage. Alcohol gets less mileage that gasoline gets.
Less energy. Mixture needs to be richer.
 
sean donato

sean donato

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
237
Location
Eastern, PA
I have a station that sells 100 octane (r+m method) ethonal free within 5 miles of my house, closer if I'd go from work. I honestly just go through too much to bother. All my fuel gets treated. I havent had major issues in years after I started treating it.
 
NIP Group
Overkill338

Overkill338

Bars Of Stihl
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
1,121
Age
39
Location
Virginia
Hi gents,

I was watching videos on ethanol damage and videos popped up on how to remove ethanol from fuel using water. Have you tried it / do you do it?

Interesting to see the ethanol seperate and know you have close to pure fuel.

I’m aware ethanol In fuel is very rare here in Australia, but this interests me none the less.
You will lose some of the octane of you separate it. So A) use Motomix, B) Buy Race or Av gas, or C), at the end of the season, run your saws dry, and put some Motomix in it, start, let it idle a little, rev it a couple times and shut it off. You can store them for a year this way. Suggestion came from my Stihl instructor. Got my 241 in January 2018, but aftet winter, it fires on 2nd or 3rd pull. So I listen to what he has to say lol
 
Justsaws

Justsaws

Addicted to ArboristSite
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Mar 3, 2006
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4,710
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Zanesville Ohio
Meh, at this point even the places claiming to sell e free might not be entirely e free. Check a batch if you are using it for storage. I have not had any issues with 10%ish E gas.
Knocks off about 10% of the fuel economy on the highway, truck or car. I do not store much fuel very long and regularly get gallons of premix pure gas in the $10.00 or less range so for the odd ball shelf sitter that needs to be run.

E free 90ish octane used to be around $4.00-5.00 a gallon from a reputable station, no idea anymore.
 
Overkill338

Overkill338

Bars Of Stihl
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Dec 18, 2017
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Age
39
Location
Virginia
I cant stand Ethnol fuels especially winter gas with butane wont even run in my saws ,blowers and trimmers when hot out. I will go way out of my way at any cost to avoid that damn pump gas garbage at any cost! I just bought ten gallons of Avgas today.
If you run saws over 95 octane, you are losing power, same as in a car. Higher octane doesn't mean more power. I buy 2 gallons of Sunoco 110 octane with lead (yeah, suck it Al.Gore) and mix it down to around 95 octane using 89 ethanol free.
Mix it 75/25
(0.25x110) + (0.75x89) =
(27.5) + (66.75) =94.25 octane
 
Hand Splitter

Hand Splitter

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
84
Age
44
Location
SD
It’s very simple, any ethanol gas does not store very long?’so for engines that will sit for any amont if time do not use ethical. If your going tomorrow burn the gas right away 10% ethanol is fine.

now food For fuel.. that’s a whole nother subject
 
Overkill338

Overkill338

Bars Of Stihl
Joined
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Messages
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Age
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Location
Virginia
Meh, at this point even the places claiming to sell e free might not be entirely e free. Check a batch if you are using it for storage. I have not had any issues with 10%ish E gas.
Knocks off about 10% of the fuel economy on the highway, truck or car. I do not store much fuel very long and regularly get gallons of premix pure gas in the $10.00 or less range so for the odd ball shelf sitter that needs to be run.
Lol oddly enough, Stihl gave me a test kit in with some of my tools, to check the ethanol level of any gas.

As I said though, if you plan to leave it sitting for a bit, dump the old gas out (in your friend's favorite fishing spot LOL).Run it dry, add a little motomix, fire it up and get diaphragm and lines wet without being full paint thinner.

PS: Sunoco 100 Octane "oxygenated" is oxygenated with about 9.75 % ethanol
 
Justsaws

Justsaws

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Zanesville Ohio
It’s very simple, any ethanol gas does not store very long?’so for engines that will sit for any amont if time do not use ethical. If your going tomorrow burn the gas right away 10% ethanol is fine.

now food For fuel.. that’s a whole nother subject
Food is cheap. Folks are fat. Need to throw some milk in the mix.
 
jp233

jp233

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
140
Location
MI
Yeah, finding ethanol-free gas has never been that difficult for me, even 10 years ago it's normally near or on the way to a marina/lake, now it's in a lot more areas - down south labeled Rec 90 and up here it's Rec 91 or just "Rec Gas".... because everyone knows fuel sits in Recreational boats for a long time. And since E10 has gotten such a bad rep for small engines in the past decade that sit, a lot of the bigger gas stations (like down south at Racetrac and Quiktrip) are selling ethanol-free because of consumer demand. However, most of the time it popped up somewhere that was either a new gas station, or a full knock-down/redo so they put in new tanks. However, some of the stations around here have an above-ground external tank.

just yesterday regular 87 octane (E10) was $2.15 per gallon, the Rec 91 was $3.09

the airport next door has been around $4.00-4.50 for 110LL (avgas), and $3.50-4.00 for Mogas

If the Mogas for sale at your local small airport is really made for aviation spec, it's honestly about the best there can be for these high compression saws:

Here's what Lycoming has said about it -
  • 93 AKI [ (R+M)/2 , the same method as used at car gas pumps in the US ] for detonation margin (hot day OAT and 500F cylinder heads)
  • Vapor pressure Class A-4 to prevent vapor lock
  • No ethanol and maximum 1% oxygenates
  • ASTM D4814 Revision 09b and EN228 Revision 2008:E
 
Goinwheelin

Goinwheelin

Clandestine Saw Operations
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Oct 13, 2019
Messages
767
Location
Yakivegas.
If you run saws over 95 octane, you are losing power, same as in a car. Higher octane doesn't mean more power. I buy 2 gallons of Sunoco 110 octane with lead (yeah, suck it Al.Gore) and mix it down to around 95 octane using 89 ethanol free.
Mix it 75/25
(0.25x110) + (0.75x89) =
(27.5) + (66.75) =94.25 octane
Interesting I’ve never heard you would actually lose power, at least not in a modern computer controlled 4 stroke multi piston engine. Carbureted two stroke single cylinder may be different I guess.

When E85 is available I mix it with 91 octane to get what is essentially E30. In my ford 2.0 turbo, when set to the E30 tune it makes considerably more power than the 91 octane tune. I imagine it would make the same power on the 91 tune with e30 though, but I haven’t ran the E30 tune with 91 in the tank out of fear of burning a piston down. If the engine can benefit from higher octane fuel allowing more aggressive fuel map and spark timing (as well as boost) then it will make more power, but if it can’t benefit from the higher octane fuel I don’t see how it could lose power. I know a few people with cars that are dual fuel e10 and e85 and the e85 tune at 110 octane makes considerably more power. Interesting stuff to say the least guess I need to do more research
 
lone wolf

lone wolf

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Interesting I’ve never heard you would actually lose power, at least not in a modern computer controlled 4 stroke multi piston engine. Carbureted two stroke single cylinder may be different I guess.

When E85 is available I mix it with 91 octane to get what is essentially E30. In my ford 2.0 turbo, when set to the E30 tune it makes considerably more power than the 91 octane tune. I imagine it would make the same power on the 91 tune with e30 though, but I haven’t ran the E30 tune with 91 in the tank out of fear of burning a piston down. If the engine can benefit from higher octane fuel allowing more aggressive fuel map and spark timing (as well as boost) then it will make more power, but if it can’t benefit from the higher octane fuel I don’t see how it could lose power. I know a few people with cars that are dual fuel e10 and e85 and the e85 tune at 110 octane makes considerably more power. Interesting stuff to say the least guess I need to do more research
It could be they dont tune after switching go a little leaner,AV gas is made more consistent and dont change batch to batch like pump gas making tuning easier. I dont have a choice the crap in the pumps here wont even run in the saws and blowers when its hot they still must be stocked on winter gas that is months and months old because C-19 slowed down sales. If your saws wont re start in the heat I strongly suspect winter gas is your problem not all sorts of elaborate vent issues!
 
BradSt

BradSt

ArboristSite Lurker
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Jan 14, 2013
Messages
35
Location
Michigan
I've never had an issue with ethanol fuel in my life. I've run it in all of my 2 stroke snowmobiles, PWCs, ***, dirtbikes, etc. With that said, I never leave fuel in the carburetors for more than a few weeks at a time. I either run the equipment, or drain the fuel. I've had issues with some non ethanol "rec fuel" being a season old, so I only buy fresh E10 fuel from busy stations. I will use Motomix as an afterun fuel, if my saws will be stored for an extended amount of time.
 
lone wolf

lone wolf

MS 200T King
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
55,273
Location
Prowling The Pine Barrens
I've never had an issue with ethanol fuel in my life. I've run it in all of my 2 stroke snowmobiles, PWCs, ***, dirtbikes, etc. With that said, I never leave fuel in the carburetors for more than a few weeks at a time. I either run the equipment, or drain the fuel. I've had issues with some non ethanol "rec fuel" being a season old, so I only buy fresh E10 fuel from busy stations. I will use Motomix as an afterun fuel, if my saws will be stored for an extended amount of time.
Well if you have like 30 machines who wants to try to keep fresh gas in all of them all the time that is a full time job in itself. Not for me! I cant tell you how many carbs it ruined and how many times
I had to siphon gas out and get rid of it ! Ethanol is a curse!
 
John Lyngdal

John Lyngdal

ArboristSite Guru
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
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Eugene, OR
The whole ethanol in gas was some of the most stupid, misguided pieces of crap to come out of DC that was wrapped up with a green banner.
It takes 26 pounds of corn to make on gallon of ethanol. At that rate, the only way to make it viable is with tax subsidies.
To compound the madness, taking a food crop to make a uneconomical fuel drove up corn/food prices that impacted those living in or near poverty.
 
jp233

jp233

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
140
Location
MI
Yep.

E85 can make big power in forced induction applications though, so it can be really cool to get (for instance) 450hp out of a 2.5L Subaru turbo car. The E85 stuff requires gigantic injectors, it just needs much more fuel.

Anyways, yeah when it comes to small engines, the E10 or E15 is the worst. I've had the vented gas cap on my mower clog up several times due to this junk, and that's with regular use of the thing. The inside of the cap gets the white snotty crap built up on the rubber seal, eventually plugging the little vent hole. Easy to clean, but it never did it before E10 was the norm (circa 2010).
 
Overkill338

Overkill338

Bars Of Stihl
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Messages
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Age
39
Location
Virginia
Interesting I’ve never heard you would actually lose power, at least not in a modern computer controlled 4 stroke multi piston engine. Carbureted two stroke single cylinder may be different I guess.

When E85 is available I mix it with 91 octane to get what is essentially E30. In my ford 2.0 turbo, when set to the E30 tune it makes considerably more power than the 91 octane tune. I imagine it would make the same power on the 91 tune with e30 though, but I haven’t ran the E30 tune with 91 in the tank out of fear of burning a piston down. If the engine can benefit from higher octane fuel allowing more aggressive fuel map and spark timing (as well as boost) then it will make more power, but if it can’t benefit from the higher octane fuel I don’t see how it could lose power. I know a few people with cars that are dual fuel e10 and e85 and the e85 tune at 110 octane makes considerably more power. Interesting stuff to say the least guess I need to do more research
The reason for higher octane, is a higher flash point to prevent detonation (spark knock) in high compression engines. If you run 93 or higher octane in something that has a 8.0:1 - 9.0:1 compression ratio, you are just wasting money, and probably hurting power. Put some 87 in a shot glass, and some 110 in another. Then take a grill lighter and move the flame slowly towards each one. You will see the difference in the flash point, and high octane burns slower.
 
Goinwheelin

Goinwheelin

Clandestine Saw Operations
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
767
Location
Yakivegas.
The reason for higher octane, is a higher flash point to prevent detonation (spark knock) in high compression engines. If you run 93 or higher octane in something that has a 8.0:1 - 9.0:1 compression ratio, you are just wasting money, and probably hurting power. Put some 87 in a shot glass, and some 110 in another. Then take a grill lighter and move the flame slowly towards each one. You will see the difference in the flash point, and high octane burns slower.
That’s kinda what I said. If the engine doesn’t require a higher octane to ward off detonation then it’s a waste, but now after some research I see what you are saying. Slower burn rate= less energy unless you increase cylinder pressure so there would be a reduction in power I just wonder how much.
 
Overkill338

Overkill338

Bars Of Stihl
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Virginia
That’s kinda what I said. If the engine doesn’t require a higher octane to ward off detonation then it’s a waste, but now after some research I see what you are saying. Slower burn rate= less energy unless you increase cylinder pressure so there would be a reduction in power I just wonder how much.
Now that, I can't answer. I'm just a simple fella, and tried to explain octane the best way I knew how lol
 
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