Problems with Canola as bar oil

[Jack2007]

Ok, who here has tried running veggie oil to lube their bar & chain? Who is still using it, and if not what problems have you encountered?

The health and environmental benefits of running veggie should be self evident, as dyno oil is poisonous to all carbon based life forms including humans, and the bar oil all gets spewed everywhere.

I have run about 2 gallons of canola oil through my saws so far. I found the feel at first a little different, as the canola flows a little thinner. But the overall results for mehave been good, and I intend to keep using it.

Let's hear everyone's results.:greenchainsaw:

 

[windthrown]

Fry oil

You should be able to add tachy addatives to the canola oil for better stick.

Issues I know of are that canola oil can go rancid, and can resin up on the bar and blade. Bio bar oil usually has stabilizer to keep it from going off and turning to resin, and tacky stuff to make it sticky. Never used it though. I would expect it run about like ND 30 Wt, which I have run.

Maybe I will try some canola oil in one of my saws... I have a quart in the pantry. Add some of that tacky auto oil additive and give it a try. Use it on the trees around the house and near the ponds here.

 

[andrethegiant70]

I only run veggie oil (including canola) in my saw. It runs thinner and has no tackiness to it (as you have noticed). I have not added anything to it, since the reason I run it in the first place (environmental) precludes the choice. And actually, that's pretty much what it is... a choice. It simply won't protect your bar and chain as well as saw-grade stuff. Oh, well. I can't say I'm running through bars and chains quickly, but I don't cut anywhere near as much as some of these guys. My favorite is soybean oil, which runs a bit thicker.

There are a BUNCH of posts on the subject. The search engine should give you hours of reading.

 

[B_Turner]

I have been running canola and bio or sometimes a mix for a few months in my main saws. Too early to tell whether bar wear is increased. I have noticed the bars stay cleaner in general, although I don't know why.

I feel good about running the stuff, and intend to keep running it. Once I get a source of commercial bio for reasonable I will probably not run straight canola anymore.

For now I don't run it in saws that don't get run regularly, as I have heard anecdotal info that canola can gum up pumps if it sits for long periods. The commercial bio may have solved that problem, and when that becomes proven I will switch over to bio in all saws unless I encounter some problem. Seems like the right thing to do.

Note, at first I was confused by the weak trail of spun off oil when I checked, but I have realized that the bio trail is generally clearer than the dino, and now I look for shine or spray over water rather than for a dark trail to see if I'm oiling.

 

[Jack2007]

I should have mentioned that I have read all the veggie oil threads. I'm trying to restart the topic with as many first hand results as possible.

In summary of what has been said before:

PROBLEMS

1) Storage is an issue for saws not often used, because the oil can go rancid, but also because the oil film will dry and get sticky in a way that dino oil does not. Solution, run a tank full of regular bar oil before storing saw for more than a month, and don't use veggie oil in saws seldom used.

2) Canola has no tackiness additives. Many have found this to be a non-issue, with sufficient lubrication for the bar and chain . Some are afraid of increased bar wear. No one who has used veggie straight for long enough to determine increased bar wear has reported any, but some have reported no increased wear.

3) One or two people claimed that they seized a tip sprocket while trying veggie. But I wonder if this was not coincidence, since others have not had this problem and plenty of people seem to seize tip sprockets with regular bar oil. (I seized my first and only tip sprocket myself in the first week of using canola, but it turned out to be wood chip clog due to imperfect technique on a felling cut in large wood. The sprocket was fine after a good soaking and a little persuasion).

4) Rodents could be attracted to the veggie oil if saw is left out, or if you have rodent problems in your storage area. Solution: Store saw in a safe place, and use it regularly.

BENEFITS

a) Eliminates the breathing in of dino oil mist.

b) Clothes not contaminated with dino oil. (Easier to clean, family laundry not contaminated.

c) Plants and animals not poisoned by all the spread dino oil.

Most of the activity on this subject has been over in the tree care forum. This doesn't seem to be that popular an issue over here. I think most of the chain saw junkies are chicken to try anything new in their beloved saws, regardless of the health and environmental benefits. (That statement should win me some friends!)opcorn:

 

[windthrown]

Cook the chicken in canola oil...

Most of the activity on this subject has been over in the tree care forum. This doesn't seem to be that popular an issue over here. I think most of the chain saw junkies are chicken to try anything new in their beloved saws, regardless of the health and environmental benefits. (That statement should win me some friends!)opcorn:

I do not think that the chainsaw junkies are chicken to try veg oil. I know quite a few sawyers that would switch and are aware of the issue of spraying oil all over the forest. The issues seem to be 1) limited availability, 2) questions about quality, and 3) higher price. Most logging trailer 'camps' that I see around here have drums of oil and mixed gas. They use drums becasue they are cheaper, easier to transport out there into the woods, and they go through a lot of the stuff. So its a 'whatever is out there' situation for the sawyers, and a cost situation for the managers. Bio bar oil is a lot more expensive than regular bar oil. So is canola oil.

And there is still the issue of quality. If you rely on your saw for a living, then it had better work. Also I am sure that the warantee on a saw and bar and chain is not going to include using canola oil. Also on availability: I have been looking for bio bar oil around here, but I cannot find it. None of the main chainsaw shops have it in stock, and none of the hardware stores have it in stock either. So if it is not on the shelves, it cannot be bought and used in saws. My chainsaws? They still get real bar oil made for chainsaws.

 

[fubar2]

Wonder if powdered graphite mixed in would plug your oil pump? A spurt of blood just got to my brain I don't know if it would help any or not, I would think it would.

 

[windthrown]

Graphite motor oil

Wonder if powdered graphite mixed in would plug your oil pump? A spurt of blood just got to my brain I don't know if it would help any or not, I would think it would.

Whatever happened to graphite motor oil? I used in some of my motorcycles years ago (in the early 80's).

 

[fubar2]

Whatdayawanna bet it was a good thing and GM or Ford invisibiled it? I can't think of any other reason it disappeared.

 

[Timberhauler]

I wouldn't mind exploring other options...Bio bar oil is so dammed expensive...Soybean oil sounds like a good idea.

 

[Austin1]

I have been running canola and bio or sometimes a mix for a few months in my main saws. Too early to tell whether bar wear is increased. I have noticed the bars stay cleaner in general, although I don't know why.

I feel good about running the stuff, and intend to keep running it. Once I get a source of commercial bio for reasonable I will probably not run straight canola anymore.

For now I don't run it in saws that don't get run regularly, as I have heard anecdotal info that canola can gum up pumps if it sits for long periods. The commercial bio may have solved that problem, and when that becomes proven I will switch over to bio in all saws unless I encounter some problem. Seems like the right thing to do.

Note, at first I was confused by the weak trail of spun off oil when I checked, but I have realized that the bio trail is generally clearer than the dino, and now I look for shine or spray over water rather than for a dark trail to see if I'm oiling.

I have used it all firewood season for me =5 full cords not much compared to how much some people here cut.But really like it and also find the bars stay cleaner and it is really cheap! Half the price of regular bar oil! I do worry about it building up a film if stored so I wash out my oil tank with diesel or coleman fuel when I store them and that time is coming up! I really have found when using a new chain with canola it stretches less. So to me that means it work better.

 

[Jack2007]

I do not think that the chainsaw junkies are chicken to try veg oil. I know quite a few sawyers that would switch and are aware of the issue of spraying oil all over the forest. The issues seem to be 1) limited availability, 2) questions about quality, and 3) higher price.

These are good points, thanks for the post. Bio oil is not available at any price in my region, but the big jugs of veggie oil at costco are available and at a much better price than bar oil. I don't know how the price comparisons would be at the 55 gallon drum scale. That brings us back to quality. The veggie oil seems to work pretty well. There is an AS member "TREE MACHINE," over in the tree care forum who has been quite passionate about getting the word out that the quality of straight veggie oil is up to the task.

Thanks to everyone who is participating in this discussion.

 

[ShoerFast]

With a stock oil-pump in my MS-660 , I see an occasional spark coming from the bar/chain if it is a little overcast or dawn or dusk if I am running HD's Power-Blend oil. I can see sparks in broad-daylight running Polund oil from Wally-World. I do not see sparks and the B/C seem to run smoother with Stihl or Huskey B/C oil, and runs a lot cooler.

There is no chance that I will try veggie-oil with that close of an envelope, my new Aussie Style oil-pump should be here mid week, will see how much effect that has, but once you have to start closing the bar-rails, it dose not seem long before you can't keep up with that and the bar is shot, why chance it?

 

[aquan8tor]

I just wanted to add my experience with running straight canola oil;

I've used about a gallon and a half so far, and love it. As already stated, the bars seem to stay cleaner, saw stays cleaner, it is cheaper, it is environmentally friendly, it doesn't smell bad, again environmentally FRIENDLY, etc. etc.

I'm milling with my 394, so I know I'm subjecting it to a pretty good stress; I've seen no increased stretch, wear, or other ill effects. I did turn the oiler down a bit, as it flows a little easier than petroleum based bar lube. No problems with big chains at all--I mill with a 32" bar. It even oils better on max oil setting than regular oil does. I haven't used it in freezing weather yet, which may be an issue if you're filling saws in the cold; solution: keep it inside with you or in the truck. I know that canola, or any oil freezes, but petro-oil gets really thick and doesn't pour well at very low temps as well. Just my $.02

Nate

 

[Austin1]

I just wanted to add my experience with running straight canola oil;

I've used about a gallon and a half so far, and love it. As already stated, the bars seem to stay cleaner, saw stays cleaner, it is cheaper, it is environmentally friendly, it doesn't smell bad, again environmentally FRIENDLY, etc. etc.

I'm milling with my 394, so I know I'm subjecting it to a pretty good stress; I've seen no increased stretch, wear, or other ill effects. I did turn the oiler down a bit, as it flows a little easier than petroleum based bar lube. No problems with big chains at all--I mill with a 32" bar. It even oils better on max oil setting than regular oil does. I haven't used it in freezing weather yet, which may be an issue if you're filling saws in the cold; solution: keep it inside with you or in the truck. I know that canola, or any oil freezes, but petro-oil gets really thick and doesn't pour well at very low temps as well. Just my $.02

Nate

I have left canola oil out in -30c and it flows way better than regular winter bar oil! other veggie oil will freeze as low as 0c soya or corn oil freezes very fast or becomes a thick sludge

 

[aquan8tor]

That's good news. Just makes it even better for me; Glad to know it doesn't freeze!!!!!

I think it must have been "regular" mixed veggie oil or corn oil that I was thinking of, which I'd left out in the cold. I used it as a lubricant/coolant for drilling holes for bulkhead fittings with a diamond hole saw in an aquarium. Veggie oil is nontoxic. Kerosene and antifreeze (which are better coolants, I know) aren't, and will stain and permeate silicone seals.

 

[fubar2]

I've never tried it but kinda think mabe a dollop of STP and a dash of powdered graphite mixed in and spun in a blender might be the answer. If anybody tries it let me know how it worked for ya. The graphite can be had at Tractor Supply tell em its for your corn planter.

 

[aquan8tor]

non-friendly additives (stp not graphite) sort of negate the whole concept of using canola oil as a lube. For me, the whole idea is keeping the petrochemicals out of the woods.

 

[aquan8tor]

fubar; I think the idea would be great with just STP though. The idea with graphite is to create a surface of little tiny particles that allow the two surfaces to slide along each other---kind of like slipping on a floor covered in marbles, just on a much smaller scale. Physicysts on the site, help me out; I would think that anything suspended in the oil; graphite particles--small crystalline carbon fragments, right??, would cause MORE friction while suspended in the oil, not less, as it would decrease the ability of the oil to keep the surfaces totally slick--I could be wrong here.

 

[GASoline71]

Holy cats I hate this subject...:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

Sorry... just me bein' ornery.

Gary