Received the Englander 28-3500 wood furnace yesterday

[aaronmach1]

Things im wondering about. I forgot yesterday i closed my make up air vent that brings fresh air into the basment through a 5 inch pipe. Maybe thats causing problems due to not having my blower hooked up to cold air return yet.
Also with temps in the mid to high 30s yesterday and last night that also may be adding to the difficulties.

 

[aaronmach1]

this company is unbelievable! I just called them and said my blower is viberating the thermo dial and making some noise. Is there anything i can do to make it a little quieter? The guy said ok i will have a new blower shipping out to you today. is there anything else i can do for you? WOW i cant beleive how well they have been taking care of me.

 

[naturelover]

Though I haven't had to use it, have read that Englanders customer service is top notch.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

 

[reaperman]

I bought a englander 13ncl a few years ago from home depot on sale. I use it in one of my out buildings during cold snaps, it was my first epa stove. In my house I run a firechief wood furnace. My prior stove was a smoke dragon, but she threw out heat. With that said, when I first started using the 13, it took forever to get a fire going. And what seemed like eternity to get it to put out any heat. Especially compared to my old dragon that threw out heat as soon as the match was lit. My findings were, without a bed of coals my fire was useless. The stove is double walled so it took heat longer to penetrate to the outer surface. The biggest factor was I needed at least 2" of ashes on the bottom of the stove for best results. The combustion air doesnt come "under" the fire like a non epa stove. It's not like opening a ash pan in your previous wood furnace, or a older woodstove to get a fire roaring in no time. The combustion air comes over the top of a fire, which is harder to get a fire started. I know your new furnace is designed different than a wood stove but the principle is the same. By leaving ashes build up a bit, it helps to get some air under the fire in my 13, thus getting it going quicker. I think once you start burning constantly and have a good coal bed built up, things will run more smoothly. Not to mention the learning curve that comes with a new toy.

 

[aaronmach1]

wow its going alot better tonight. learning more now and i think i was throwing wood in and closing the door /dampers to quickly. Lot better results tonight and opening up my fresh air supply also probably helped. Still the flue temps like to only run 150 to 200 degrees on the magnetic thermometer on the stove pipe. But im ok with that if its burning clean and it is. Very little smoke out of the chimney once its going. Wonder how often you other owners clean your glass. I find myself doing it everyday so far, i really like a clear veiw of my fire!
Definatly cant "man handle it" and damp it down like i did with the old one. Takes a little more finess but the longer cleaner burns a worth it. Really liking the englander more and more. Give me some cold weather!

 

[aaronmach1]

Got the cold air system hooked up and a filter box after a little modification last night. Working great! heres some pictures for anyone interested.

 

[Whitespider]

Curious?? Is that the recommended size for the return air??
The reason I'm asking is the "rule-of-thumb" is to have at least the same size return as the outlet... usually a bit larger is even better to allow for elbows and such.
I'm also curious if the gas furnace blower is still starting up now that the return is connected. If it is, you really should install some sort of backdraft damper. In most gas furnaces the heat sensor that turns on the blower is located in the heat exchanger... and if it's getting hot enough to start the blower you have warm air traveling backwards in the ducts. That can cause a "loop" where the return is pulling warm air from the duct, backwards through the gas furnace, and back into the wood furnace. Over time the velocity and volume of reverse air can steadily increase until it adversely effects the heating ability... and could possibly overheat the wood furnace (not sure how likely that would be, but it is possible). If you don't use the gas furnace there's actually a very simple and easy way to install a backdraft damper... just replace the gas furnace filter with something solid like a piece of sheet metal, plywood, or even stiff cardboard. Ya' just haf'ta remember to remove the damper if ya' ever do use the gas furnace.
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[aaronmach1]

Curious?? Is that the recommended size for the return air??
The reason I'm asking is the "rule-of-thumb" is to have at least the same size return as the outlet... usually a bit larger is even better to allow for elbows and such.
I'm also curious if the gas furnace blower is still starting up now that the return is connected. If it is, you really should install some sort of backdraft damper. In most gas furnaces the heat sensor that turns on the blower is located in the heat exchanger... and if it's getting hot enough to start the blower you have warm air traveling backwards in the ducts. That can cause a "loop" where the return is pulling warm air from the duct, backwards through the gas furnace, and back into the wood furnace. Over time the velocity and volume of reverse air can steadily increase until it adversely effects the heating ability... and could possibly overheat the wood furnace (not sure how likely that would be, but it is possible). If you don't use the gas furnace there's actually a very simple and easy way to install a backdraft damper... just replace the gas furnace filter with something solid like a piece of sheet metal, plywood, or even stiff cardboard. Ya' just haf'ta remember to remove the damper if ya' ever do use the gas furnace.
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I have and 8 inch heat supply going out and an 8 inch cold air coming in to the filter box. Also couple small vents for extra air in addition to the 8 in supply line.They dont mention anything on cold air returns in the manual for this wood burner.
When the gas furnace runs its only for a minute or 2 when the plenum gets hot enough to trip it. 98% of the time the wood burner is burning the gas furnace blower never runs.( only runs when im cranking some serious heat)
Also the cold air return runs 20 feet away from the gas furnace then taps into the cold air system so as to not pull heat through the furnace. seems to work well.( i cant test the flow direction tonight with some candle smoke.)
I have heard the cardboard stopper before to replace the gas furnace filter, i just think its handy having the gas blower runs when the plenum reaches the real hot point just for a safety feature kinda.

 

[aaronmach1]

I should be good right?
Also i forgot to mention adding the filter box on made the blower sound almost silent. Very nice.

 

[Whitespider]

I see... in the pic the return pipe looked smaller than the outlet pipe to me.

If the gas furnace blower starts, even for a minute or only occasionally, it means you have a backdraft problem... warm air is being pulled and/or forced down into the heat exchanger of the gas furnace, and there's enough of it to trip the heat switch (that means a considerable amount). It doesn't matter how far your return is from the gas furnace, when the wood furnace blower is running you have (relative) low pressure in all of the the return ducting, and (relative) high pressure in all of the the heat ducting. Air will flow from a high pressure zone to a low pressure zone... that's just the nature of things.

Hey, I ain't sayin' you're gonna' die, or the world will end... but what's happening ain't right. Don't believe me?? Go talk to a HVAC man; see if he don't tell ya' to correct it ASAP... or sooner.
Besides, if you get backdraft from the wood furnace blower when the gas furnace blower ain't running... the vice versa is also likely.
Think about that... durning reversed air flow (from either blower) you're actually suckin' or blowin' the dirt off your filter(s) and introducing it back into the ducting.
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[aaronmach1]

thanks for bringing this up, i sent an email to tech support and seeing what they suggest for their furnace setup /cold air return, since they mention nothing in the manual.
I see what you mean about the back draft damper in the gas furnace. I remember a post i read last week of alleyyoopers. He has same englander 28-3500, and englanders tech line told him dont worry about a damper in the gas furnace its not needed. I appreciate your help ,ill be checking into this setup. thanks whitespider!

 

[Whitespider]

No... alleyyooper was talking about a flue damper in the chimney pipe to the wood furnace... better read that again.
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[aaronmach1]

No... alleyyooper was talking about a flue damper in the chimney pipe to the wood furnace... better read that again.
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Yes he said that also, not sure if it was the same post or not. But he also asked about a back draft damper to protect the a coil and such inside his gas furnace and they said no back draft damper is needed. Im waiting for their reply to me on this.

 

[aaronmach1]

so far this is what they have told me today, #3 is reffering to a magnetic thermometer on the stove pipe.

1. 8 inch is enough for the blower.
2. i would not use the one on the ash door except at start up. we do not recommend a damper in the pipe, i could hinder draw. however, since it is there you could try slowing down more with it. this leads to number 3.
3. i would keep the temp above 300 or more, the flue gases need to maintain from top to bottom abour 220 degrees.

 

[Whitespider]

(shrug) Like I said, the sky ain't gonna' fall... it's your call.
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[aaronmach1]

They replied. "yes you will need the back draft damper".
is there a recommended one? I have never seen one for in the furnace. Must be big.

 

[Whitespider]

As far as I know you can't buy a back draft damper because every system is different... it needs to be fabricated, on site, to fit your system.
I made my own, but any HVAC guy should be able to fix ya' up... or, like I said, just block off the filter when you're not using the gas furnace.
It don't matter a whole lot where it's located as long as it effectively stops the reverse flow of air... although, if it automatically opens and closes (usually by static pressure), it is best if it's located just above the heat exchanger.
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[aaronmach1]

thanks! for tonight ill shut the power off to the gas furnace and shove a blocker into the filter slot.
I assume i cant over heat the metal duct without the gas furnace blower to cool the plenum down right? The ductwork is from 1985 so it should be heavy duty.

 

[reaperman]

What the hvac guy did that installed my Lp furnace and wood furnace (new home construction) was install a louver directly above my LP furnace. When the LP furnace or air conditioner kick in, it blows the louver open then falls closed when the blower stops. This prevents backdrafting from the wood furnace into the LP unit.

 

[aaronmach1]

What the hvac guy did that installed my Lp furnace and wood furnace (new home construction) was install a louver directly above my LP furnace. When the LP furnace or air conditioner kick in, it blows the louver open then falls closed when the blower stops. This prevents backdrafting from the wood furnace into the LP unit.

ok, im picturing what you are saying. Do you have an "a coil"? i have an "a" coill for the central ac in the plenum of my gas furnace. Its above the gas furnace and a "couple inches maybe" below where the wood furnace heat comes into the plenum. Im thinking i may not have room for a damper or louver damper in there.