• ArboristSite has decided that due to the abusive interactions users are having with each other in the political forum, we will no longer be providing a place to talk politics on this forum. Any political posts will be deleted once discovered or reported to us. We are sorry for this inconvenience.

ArboristSite.com Sponsors
www.harvesterbars.com


Resinoid Grinder Wheels

Philbert

Philbert

Chainsaw Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
17,142
Location
Minnesota
Grinding wheels come in different grits and types, like sandpaper and other abrasives. Some remove material faster; some leave a smoother finish; some last longer; some heat up the material more. Silvey grinder users are used to having a selection of wheels to choose from, but users of the Oregon style grinders usually do not.

Some people suggested that resin bonded wheels ('resinoid') heat up cutters less, so I ordered a pair, but have not had the chance to try them yet. I would be interested in anybody else's experience with these.
Resinoid Bond - An organic bond used in grinding tools that offers rapid stock removal and finer finishes.
Vitrified Bond - A clay or ceramic bond characterized by its strength, rigidity, and resistance to oils, water, or temperature changes.

The cost of these wheels was similar to standard wheels ($15 - $20 each, depending on the vendor), which is much less than the ABN/CBN wheels ($100 - $300, depending on the brand). I was surprised by their appearance, compared to other Total and Tecomec branded wheels, including the lack of a wheel blotter (label) which is supposed to help protect a wheel when mounted between flanges.

Total resinoid grinding wheels
Screen shot 2014-04-30 at 11.40.11 AM.png

Tecomec and Total vitrified wheels
Screen shot 2014-04-30 at 11.39.58 AM.png

Tecomec wheels (in their catalog): I would also be curious if folks in Europe have experience with these other Tecomec wheels (not sold in the US as far as I can find out).
Screen shot 2014-04-30 at 11.40.25 AM.png


Thanks.

Philbert
 
Philbert

Philbert

Chainsaw Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
17,142
Location
Minnesota
Initial Impressions

I was in the middle of a large batch of chains, so I finally got around to trying these. This was only a limited test (2- 84 DL and 1-60 DL chains with a 3/16" wheel), so these are very preliminary impressions.

- Much less likely to 'burn' a cutter. I am an experienced grinder, and have learned not to burn a cutter using standard, vitrified wheels. But I was able to take significantly longer 'taps' with the resinoid wheels, meaning more contact time between the grinding wheel and the cutter. I was able to intentionally overheat a cutter on some scrap/practice chain, but not as fast as with the conventional, vitrified wheels.

- Less of a burr formed on the Left hand cutters. This is always an issue when grinding 'inside out', and a concern for some people. For some reason, I did not get significant burrs on the outside of the side plate with these chains. This was an unexpected surprise.

- Very acceptable, smooth surface left by the grinding wheel.

- More dust produced. A noticeable increase in the amount of grinding dust, although, no noticeable amount of wheel wear observed after these 3+ chains. I usually grind outside or in the garage, but this could be an issue for guys who grind in a shop with limited ventilation.

- Less wheel dressing required? Because these wheels are black, it is impossible to see any dirt - something I look for, and clean off of the light colored, vitrified wheels. I occasionally touched up these wheels to maintain shape, but this may have been due to habit, more than need. Maybe the increased wear of the wheel constantly exposes fresh abrasive?

- Different smell. I assume that these wheels are constructed similar to the masonry and steel cut off blades used in circular saws and chop saws. These wheels had a similar smell in use. Again, this could be objectionable to some working in an enclosed space.

Initial Recommendations?

This was a very limited, uncontrolled test. I cannot accurately compare how fast these wheels remove material compared to standard Oregon, Molemab, or other vitrified wheels, or how long they would last compared to the same wheels. But they performed acceptably in use, and were significantly less likely to overheat the cutters.

Since they are roughly about the same cost as conventional wheels, and a whole lot less expensive than ABN/CBN wheels, I would recommend anyone who has had trouble burning cutters with conventional wheels, or who is concerned about the side plate burr left by non-reversable grinders, to try them. They could be a low cost way of solving a problem.

*** I am still interested in others' experiences with these wheels, and if there are other brands available. I ordered mine from a local saw shop that also sells Tecomec grinders. Not sure which of our site sponsors carry these, but it would be a good thing to note.

Philbert
 
webgal

webgal

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
189
Location
Redwoods
Hi Philbert, I'm wondering what the arbor is on these exactly. I've turned up a 4-7/8" wheel in our offerings, however it says 7/16 arbor not 7/8. Did you need any buffers etc? I didn't catch which specific machine you were sharpening on. 7/16" seems to be an odd size too... Any enlightenment there?
 
Philbert

Philbert

Chainsaw Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
17,142
Location
Minnesota
22mm = 7/8 inches, according to Google. Wheels are as shown in the photos. Mounted them directly onto my Oregon 511a grinder.

Philbert
 
heyduke

heyduke

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,360
Location
in the mountains
I believe that 'Total' is a Tilton brand - the US importer of Tecomec. But they do not distribute all of the Tecomec wheels - shown in the first post (from Tecomec's European website).

Philbert
yes, i read your initial post carefully, more than ten minutes ago. the comment about different availability, eu/usa slipped my mind. i have never seen any tecomec or tilton wheels. i wonder if the green is for carbide.
 
Philbert

Philbert

Chainsaw Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
17,142
Location
Minnesota
I think that the 'softer' wheels are for hogging off more metal, like when you have a rocked chain, and the 'harder' wheels are for a smoother finish. If one was obsessive, one could use both: sorta like starting to shape a piece of wood with 80 grit sandpaper, and moving up to 220 before finishing. Pferd also offers their chainsaw files in a coarser and smoother cut.

The Tecomec or Total branded wheels (including those in the photos above) sometimes come with a Tecomec grinder. I was hoping that some of our non-US members might have some experience with some of the other wheels that they could share.

Philbert
 
Philbert

Philbert

Chainsaw Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
17,142
Location
Minnesota
Noticed that some resinoid wheels are available for Silvey chisel grinders, and Silvey 510 round grinders. Anyone try/use these?

Philbert
 
machinisttx

machinisttx

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
1,411
Location
TX
I think that the 'softer' wheels are for hogging off more metal, like when you have a rocked chain, and the 'harder' wheels are for a smoother finish. If one was obsessive, one could use both: sorta like starting to shape a piece of wood with 80 grit sandpaper, and moving up to 220 before finishing. Pferd also offers their chainsaw files in a coarser and smoother cut.

The Tecomec or Total branded wheels (including those in the photos above) sometimes come with a Tecomec grinder. I was hoping that some of our non-US members might have some experience with some of the other wheels that they could share.

Philbert
You are somewhat correct. Generally speaking, for rough grinding or heavy stock removal one would use a coarse grit wheel with a slightly softer bond. The coarse grit will allow larger "cuts" as the individual abrasive grains are bigger and the softer bond allows the wheel to continually break down and expose fresh, sharp abrasive to the workpiece. For finishing, a finer grit will leave a better surface finish and a harder bond keeps the wheel from losing shape or breaking down as quickly, which preserves accuracy of the cut.

What you're doing when sharpening chains is actually form grinding, which requires a finer grit and a harder bond than what would normally be used for simple, flat surface grinding. Most of the abrasive manufacturers have some form of info center or data available as to what all the numbers and letters on a wheel mean, as well as their intended use. Here's a PDF from norton. http://www.nortonindustrial.com/upl...s/Documents/Toolroom Selection Chart 7505.pdf I haven't done any regular precision grinding in several years and as a result I've forgotten a lot of what I once knew. :(
 
heyduke

heyduke

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,360
Location
in the mountains
i picked up my total resonoid wheel yesterday, from the post office. i haven't had a chance to do a chain yet but it did get it dressed. it was a few tenths of a millimeter out of round and had to be trued before i could put a radius on it. hopefully i will have time to try it out today. i'll try to post some photos and my observations.
 
heyduke

heyduke

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,360
Location
in the mountains
i sharpened a chain with the resinoid wheel today. overall i have very favorable impressions. the cutters never got warm to the touch. it put a good edge on the cutters. it didn't produce the gritty mess that i'm used to. i think the grit that wheels leave on your chain can cause early dullness. there was still a slight burr on the left hand cutters but that will come off with the first cut in the wood. the grinding was accurate and repeatable. cutter lengths, left to right, were within .06mm.

grinder is an oregon 511a

resinoid_N0409.jpg

resinoid_N0406.jpg

resinoid_N0407.jpg
 
LegDeLimber

LegDeLimber

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
2,173
Location
NC
In the second pic, it looks like the area at the top plate is almost vertical, relative to the chain.
Could be a bit of burr - the pic is sorta grainy (check that ISO setting fellows!)
But the wheel looks to need a wee bit more profile work.
- - -
Just for giggles and fairness, I probably should snap and post a few pics of my efforts at filing a new/unused round ground chain over to square.
This double vision thing of mine has been making for beak city.

Edit: where's the best square filing thread? I should throw a few pics and questions up.
 
c5rulz

c5rulz

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
2,729
Location
Wisconsin
Noticed that some resinoid wheels are available for Silvey chisel grinders, and Silvey 510 round grinders. Anyone try/use these?

Philbert

I've got a pair of the Total resinoid type wheels but haven't tried them yet. I have been using Silvey wheels on my 511AX. The Silvey wheels when they are worn out for the Silvey are just about the right size for the 511AX style grinder. However the arbor on the Silvey is 1" and the 511AX is 7/8ths so I had to make a bushing to make them fit.

I like the Silvey wheels so well, I have used a vitrified since.
 
heyduke

heyduke

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,360
Location
in the mountains
In the second pic, it looks like the area at the top plate is almost vertical, relative to the chain.
Could be a bit of burr - the pic is sorta grainy (check that ISO setting fellows!)
But the wheel looks to need a wee bit more profile work.
- - -
Just for giggles and fairness, I probably should snap and post a few pics of my efforts at filing a new/unused round ground chain over to square.
This double vision thing of mine has been making for beak city.

Edit: where's the best square filing thread? I should throw a few pics and questions up.
just do a search. there's some good threads on square ground. i usually go the other way and grind square to round after it's dull the first time. if i was going to file square ground i'd probably go with a goofy file and produce a hybrid.

thanks for the feedback. sorry about the loose debris on the chain, first time i used a resin wheel. i think it leaves some sticky stuff that attracts the abundant detritus in my shop. the angles actually seem pretty good, though i think i could reap some benefits by grinding out the gullets a tad. " profile," whats that big word mean? here's some new fotos after applying compressed air.

resinoid_N0414-sm.jpg

resinoid-N0419-sm.jpg

resinoid_N0416-sm.jpg

and the vid, the saw is a 62cc chinese knockoff that i wouldn't recommend to anyone but the chain needed some work so it got the part in the movie. it self feeds nicely and makes fat chips.

 
LegDeLimber

LegDeLimber

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
2,173
Location
NC
Speaking of stuff on the chain. here's what the files are leaving on a new chain.
I also need to arrange a narrower clamping method, as this mini-vise doesn't allow me to get the file angle I need to roughly match the yellow line.
The blue line is the max angle obtainable in this vise.

and my pics are crappy looking too. I need to rig some better lighting and get the camera closer
to the chain.
 

Attachments

Top