"Seasoning" Wood More Economically

[Moss Man]

For the last three years I have been taking 30-60 cords of green cut and split wood and piling it on pallets in my field to dry. I really don't have the time or enthusiasm to pile that much wood by hand so I pay a friend $20. a cord to pile it. Going from green to seasoned brings the value of the wood from $190. a cord to $235. a cord, so the $20. a cord to pile it still leaves a good jump in profit. All that being said, I am ready to move to the next stage where the wood is handled one less time.....the piling. I think a long road width cement or tar pad would work well, just back down over it and dump wood plies directly out of the truck onto the paved surface and then reverse the process by scooping it up with my tractor/backhoe into the truck after it's dry and ready to deliver. No more piling. I've talked with several people that dump piles of wood for drying on their tar driveways and they claim it dries quite well. There are a few firewood dealers local to me that just dump it in a field for drying, my experience with that is that the top of the pile is quite dry, but the bottom of the pile is still wet from never being exposed to the wind and sun as well as picking up ground moisture. I'm just trying to weigh out the cost to profit ratio of putting down cement or tar for this. Obviously you'd want to be sure you are in it for the long term, which I believe I will be. I just sold the green portion of my firewood business to a friend and won't be doing that segment of the operation again. But I want to stay slightly active in this by still doing at least some seasoned wood. Little long winded uh? I'm pretty much just looking for some alternative ideas from the collective minds here on how to handle the wood less and keep costs down.

 

[3fordasho]

Quess I should have read your post better as I am doing the same as you are now. You idea sounds reasonable, asphalt would get hotter but the most important thing would be proper drainage of rain water off the concrete/asphalt. Not too difficult. You still have to get the wood from splitter to the pad though and going from the splitter to truck to pad would only be efficient if you have a dump bed that you can easily toss the splits into from the splitter, or use a conveyor. Picking it up with the tractor would be the time saver because I've found throwing it into the truck from the pile is kind of a pain, slower than pulling from a stack but still a timesaver over stacking in the first place.

For the last three years I have been taking 30-60 cords of green cut and split wood and piling it on pallets in my field to dry. I really don't have the time or enthusiasm to pile that much wood by hand so I pay a friend $20. a cord to pile it. Going from green to seasoned brings the value of the wood from $190. a cord to $235. a cord, so the $20. a cord to pile it still leaves a good jump in profit. All that being said, I am ready to move to the next stage where the wood is handled one less time.....the piling. I think a long road width cement or tar pad would work well, just back down over it and dump wood plies directly out of the truck onto the paved surface and then reverse the process by scooping it up with my tractor/backhoe into the truck after it's dry and ready to deliver. No more piling. I've talked with several people that dump piles of wood for drying on their tar driveways and they claim it dries quite well. There are a few firewood dealers local to me that just dump it in a field for drying, my experience with that is that the top of the pile is quite dry, but the bottom of the pile is still wet from never being exposed to the wind and sun as well as picking up ground moisture. I'm just trying to weigh out the cost to profit ratio of putting down cement or tar for this. Obviously you'd want to be sure you are in it for the long term, which I believe I will be. I just sold the green portion of my firewood business to a friend and won't be doing that segment of the operation again. But I want to stay slightly active in this by still doing at least some seasoned wood. Little long winded uh? I'm pretty much just looking for some alternative ideas from the collective minds here on how to handle the wood less and keep costs down.

 

[winland]

I will say that I am very new to cutting, splitting and burning wood.

I was given access to a VERY large, dead ash tree that was cut down this past spring.

I cut it up and hauled it all to my home and dumped it on my asphalt driveway.
I split and stacked some of the wood earlier in the summer when it was a bit cooler,
but the bulk of the wood is still unsplit and sitting on my driveway.

As you can see from the photos below the split and stacked wood is much yellower than the unsplit wood that remains on my
asphalt driveway.

Not sure of all of the factors / variables that contribute to this difference.

View attachment 249850
View attachment 249851

 

[Moss Man]

I will say that I am very new to cutting, splitting and burning wood.

I was given access to a VERY large, dead ash tree that was cut down this past spring.

I cut it up and hauled it all to my home and dumped it on my asphalt driveway.
I split and stacked some of the wood earlier in the summer when it was a bit cooler,
but the bulk of the wood is still unsplit and sitting on my driveway.

As you can see from the photos below the split and stacked wood is much yellower than the unsplit wood that remains on my
asphalt driveway.

Not sure of all of the factors / variables that contribute to this difference.

View attachment 249850
View attachment 249851

I'm not sure which has more to do with that, the fact that the pile on the tar isn't split nearly as much as the piled stuff probably has the most to due with it drying less.

 

[RAMROD48]

having it on pavement or concrete I would have to believe that its like cooking it on hot plate...sort of...

 

[cnice_37]

Well... start the experiment.

I hate cutting the lawn, so this could be beneficial in more ways than one.

 

[CTYank]

One thing you lose with a random pile is exposure to air.

One possible alternative would be to put ducts under the slab, and connect to blowers. Discharge air under piles.

This sort of thing is used to speed up composting.

 

[wagz]

the problem i see with a long road is this: as you drive down and dump, you will start to work your way up the road. the oldest, and most seasoned wood, is going to be the furthest away when you drive your tractor down.


does that make sense? i've been painting all day

 

[TJ-Bill]

if your worried about the bottom/inside of the pile not dry the same as the outside couldn't you just go in 1/2 way through the drying season and move the wood around with your backhoe?

 

[ponyexpress976]

As with everything there is an associated cost. Paving a large enough area can get pricey really quick. A concrete slab, even more so. If you sold every stick of 60 cords at the higher price, you're looking at an extra $1500 per season with your buddy piling it or an extra 2700 to skip his piling and dumping it on a slab. How many seasons worth of wood will you have to sell before you break even on the investment? Will it be a general increase to your property value? i.e. would it make the property value go up if you were to sell, or worse had to sell? Will the additional expenditure free up time, money or manpower enough to expand your business and offset the cost that much faster?

Without knowing more details about your splitting operation it's hard to say whether this would make things more effecient. Could it be easier to bring the logs/rounds closer to the eventual drying area? Split and toss directly into the drying spot and skip a loading/unloading step?

 

[Moss Man]

As with everything there is an associated cost. Paving a large enough area can get pricey really quick. A concrete slab, even more so. If you sold every stick of 60 cords at the higher price, you're looking at an extra $1500 per season with your buddy piling it or an extra 2700 to skip his piling and dumping it on a slab. How many seasons worth of wood will you have to sell before you break even on the investment? Will it be a general increase to your property value? i.e. would it make the property value go up if you were to sell, or worse had to sell? Will the additional expenditure free up time, money or manpower enough to expand your business and offset the cost that much faster?

Without knowing more details about your splitting operation it's hard to say whether this would make things more effecient. Could it be easier to bring the logs/rounds closer to the eventual drying area? Split and toss directly into the drying spot and skip a loading/unloading step?

You bring up some valid points. Theres another firewood dealer down the street from me and he has a much longer conveyor, he just makes one long pile on the ground as he moves his processor along. The pile is over 14' high so there's minimal ground exposure.

I should just get completely out of the business and concentrate more on the other things I do, but I actually like seasoning the wood and making deliveries.....I know, I'm tipped.

 

[Arbonaut]

I do all types of concrete construction, (residential). I mostly specialize in post tension, ICF and foundations. But pavement is a part of it. It's hard to compete without lots of manpower. But here is an idea, Moss. I think pervious concrete is the ideal surface to stack wood on. (or for a Dog) Think about it the water flows through it instead of across it. And it is solid. You have to allow for sub surface drainage and put it in with a roller. I would consider pervious before asphalt or any conventional pavement. It can also be put in without any slope.

 

[Highbeam]

We make pervious asphalt now too.

 

[haveawoody]

My experience with leaving wood on driveway is fine while it is sunny and bad from first rain onward.
The wood touching the driveway stays wet and molds out pretty fast.

If you can put a cheap hoop house over the paved area then that problem dissapears but the wood at the bottom touching the driveway has quite poor airflow.
Your still stuck with similiar amounts of work when it comes time to load someone up with wood.


I put all my sales wood on pallets with pallets on each end, 4-45 degree pieces of wood to hold ends to bottom pallet and a couple long screws each end, then the 1/2 cord can be forked onto a flat truck.
Then fork, wood and flat truck head to the delivery site.

Customers love when wood arives tiday with a top cover to prevent rain and placed close to the location they like.
I leave a sheet on the bottom of the pallet and one with just one row of wood left with my details for re-order.
When we do we pick up the pallet set for re-use.

 

[bert the turtle]

I've been thinking about buying some of the metal cages for the IBC totes that you see listed cheap on craigslist. The bottom is a pallet and the sides are metal wire frame. Fill it with cut split wood and handle it as a palletized cargo from then on. This is for personal use, I don't know what the economics would be for larger scale, but it sure would be nice to put out in the field, cut, split, fill and then move it with the tractor from there on.

 

[haveawoody]

bert the turtle,

It sure gets rid of one set of wood movements if you can make and move something all at once.
If you make yourself a leantoo structure with a big door at your house you can lift in a wire cage of wood and remove an empty with the same effort.

Big scale just ask for a deposit on the cages on a delivery, when you pick them up on every delivery afterwards no cage cost.
Give back the deposit on the last cage pickup.

I have found that people will pay just a little more for stacked covered wood delivered to them neat and tidy.
Vs a truck arriving and dumping a big load of wood in the driveway that needs to be stacked by the customer.

Throw in a free box of kindle on each delivery and you have a customer for life.

 

[KiwiBro]

Is it legal to sell it 'thrown' rather than stacked in your area?

I ask because how about the splitting guys process directly into the mesh FIBC bags you supply them, then when they deliver, you store them in wind-rows allowing airspace between them. These rows don't have to be concrete or the like, but I guess you could flatten/spray/metal them if you like and you can water-table between them by trenching and if the weather gets really bad you can cover the tops of the rows of bags.

Is that an option?

 

[haveawoody]

KiwiBro,

A quantity of wood is simply a quantity of wood.
Not sure it matters what format that is sold in as long as it's accurate and agreed upon.

In Canada it is sold in 1 cord or 1/2 cord 1/3 cord 1/4, as long as it is a measurable % of 1 cord.
Illegal to sell things like ricks and face cords here but lots of people do.

I see the bags as another expense, loading and moving them look like a constant forklift expense also.
Cheaper to head down to a stone yard and ask for as many pallets as you can get and make them into 1/2 cord cradles for wood.
They do fit just inside a pickup bed, but bag or pallet set is going to show a problem on picked up wood.
When the customer arrives home they have a 2200lb thing in the back of the pickup and no way to remove it.

IMO delivered wood is the only way to go.
And best equiptment hire 1 or 2 guys to stack it properly just 1 time, make pallet cradles, split wood, go get free pallets, opperate the fork, make deliveries and pickups.

 

[Moss Man]

I ask because how about the splitting guys process directly into the mesh FIBC bags you supply them, then when they deliver, you store them in wind-rows allowing airspace between them. These rows don't have to be concrete or the like, but I guess you could flatten/spray/metal them if you like and you can water-table between them by trenching and if the weather gets really bad you can cover the tops of the rows of bags.

Is that an option?

Delivery in Maine is by cubic feet as far as the delivery vehicle is concerned, the Forestry Department will measure your vehicle if need be.

 

[Rearden]

Relocating to a more rural area with lots of forest where we'll continue heating with wood, but also getting a band saw mill to keep my shop supplied, so we've been looking at firewood as an adjunct to all of the other wood fun (and maybe even a pelletizer for my saw dust). Years ago I was in the biz and we'd pull tractor trailers of logs out of the woods to be deposited on an acre gravel and oyster shell portion of our lot. Wood that wasn't split right away was cut to burning length and stacked... then pulled down to be split and stacked again... and then loaded into our old grain truck 4 cords at a time...stacked yet again to save room. Then we would deliver it... and stack it again. What can I say... I was a lot dumber and more energetic back then. Haveawoody's idea is something along the lines of what I'm thinking of now, but the delivery issue might get a little sticky since I don't wanna be haulin' a fork lift with me to deliver- although it certainly does sound temptingly nice. Maybe just a H.D. lift gate and a pallet jack for driveway delivery only.

We have two buildings and a pole barn that can be brought into use where we're movin', so all of our wood will be seasoned under cover. I have seen quite a few dealers closer to the city that we are fleeing from, who leave huge 30' piles sitting in the mud all year. The issue of uneven drying is not going to resolve itself just by piling it on something that drains better than dirt. The hard surface material is great stuff, but you're still talking about uneven piles of wood that are going to be getting different amounts of light and air at every level. The things that effect the drying are ambient relative humidity, temperature, and air movement. We're in the Mid Atlantic, which has a dew point higher than hell's, so it takes a lot of direct sun to get stuff to dry. Another thing is that air can hold a lot more moisture if it is moving, which is to say that it can become super saturated as long as it is kept moving. As soon as it stops moving... it rains. So the moving air helps it carry more moisture till it's blown out'a the enclosure where it can dissipate

So I thinkin' maybe a kind of solar kiln could be placed over a windrow of piled wood. The ends might require a pretty substantial fan, depending upon the pile length and air volume that you're trying to move, but I've built some redneck hoop houses out'a cattle pen panels with good success. We hog ring the ends of two panels together with about a foot of overlap, then we bow it into a half moon and anchor the sides with 1/2" re-bar and a 2x4 toe board. Each 4'+ wide hoop is lashed to the one next to it with sash cord. Cover it up with greenhouse poly, frame the ends with a few 2x3's and cover them as well. They don't shed a heavy snow as well as the regular commercial variety, but a 15 or 16' wide by 40' frame of this only cost me about $350 including the re-bar and lumber. We had to do a little padding over the splice to keep from rippin' the poly to shreds, but the frame is amazingly strong, and best of all for our past purposes, it could all be taken apart by an idiot, stacked in a small space, and then used again. Not sure how much wood is in a pile maybe 10' high and 14 or 15' wide, but I think you're probably close to 2 cord every 4', so a 40' hoop house would cover say 20 cord.
If the wood is under cover and air is constantly circulating, and it's in the direct sun, should season up right quick.

The hard surface ain't cheap, but it would make scoopin' up wood with the bucket easier. I think I might try something a little cheaper first though. Maybe "borrow" enough of those temporary Jersey Wall barriers to wrap around and kind'a contain your pile (plus you could pile it higher due to the surround). Either way, with or without the walls, just put a layer of poly on the ground where you're piling your wood. Concrete - even porous concrete - will still allow water vapor to leave the ground and pass through or into your wood. The plastic vapor barrier is cheap enough that you can sacrifice it when you scoop up the wood for loading. The only problem there would be pickin' shards of plastic out'a the wood - depending upon how you ultimately handle delivery. Maybe a hard surface with the vapor barrier painted on and re-applied each year? I dunno, just trying to do a little brainstormin'.
I would say though that either with, or instead of the fans, ya might also be able to make the sides a little short on poly coverage to allow air to enter all around, and maybe add a giant ridge vent that will let the normal convective hot air escape without letting the rain in. Probably best to do it all AND have a fan pullin' air in as well as a fan pushin' air in.

I bought a bunch of Home Depot style steel pallet shelving at auction so I'm thinkin' of maybe using Haveawoodey's idea and forklifting the pallets vertically as well in my situation, but good luck. Interesting conundrum.