Square grind chain?

[Joe Kidd]

Who works magic on square grind chain? I've thought about trying a couple of loops, but I'm sure I'll need someone to machine grind my loops after I screw em' up. I understand the learning curve is a beeotch!

 

[Warped5]

Who works magic on square grind chain? I've thought about trying a couple of loops, but I'm sure I'll need someone to machine grind my loops after I screw em' up. I understand the learning curve is a beeotch!

Sources indicate mdavlee knows more than a thing or three .... :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[indiansprings]

You can always just round file them, I have tried a couple in our hardwoods, actually surprised at how long they will stay sharp, I thought they would dull fast in some of the dirty wood that we cut, actually can't tell any difference in how long they stay sharp compared to round ground chisel. I'm to old to try to learn and no one close has a grinder so I've just put them on the old Oregon grinder and round ground them, which works well.

 

[mdavlee]

I might know someone who has a grinder:msp_rolleyes:

 

[srcarr52]

I might know someone too. Look at my sig.

 

[w8ye]

I've made round chains square with the ATOP file guide and also with a Silvey swing arm grinder.

It is a lot of labor to hand file a round ground chain to square. Especially to race angles like the ATOP does.

I have sharpened Oregon CL square chisel chains by free hand without much trouble.

The swing arm grinders are easy to use and set up - especially to re-sharpen chains already done on the same grinder.

The main trouble I have is having enough light to see that I'm not making a beak on the chain. In other words, keeping the corner of the file or grinding wheel aligned with the corner of the cutter.

My experience cutting with these chains has been good.

Oregon CL chains have blunt angles to make them long lasting but still cut faster than regular Oregon LGX round ground chain.

The Silvey and Simington grinders as set up from the manufacturer have sharper angles than the Oregon CL chains. They are towards the finer angles recommended by Oregon. Outside top plate 18 degrees, outside side plate 88 degrees and inside angles 44 degrees are what my grinder does.

The ATOP race file guide makes a cookie cutting chain with very sharp angles.

 

[Bill G]

A couple facts

Many guys own a square grinder.

Owning a square grinder does not make you a square grinder PERIOD

 

[watsonr]

I might know someone too. Look at my sig.

Ever decide if your going to make a couple of those slides?

 

[srcarr52]

Ever decide if your going to make a couple of those slides?

Yes I did decide. A few gen 2 blocks are being hacked out at a CNC shop.

 

[Freakingstang]

You can always just round file them, I have tried a couple in our hardwoods, actually surprised at how long they will stay sharp, I thought they would dull fast in some of the dirty wood that we cut, actually can't tell any difference in how long they stay sharp compared to round ground chisel. I'm to old to try to learn and no one close has a grinder so I've just put them on the old Oregon grinder and round ground them, which works well.

I use predominatley square chain in harwoods also. I run square ground on both my 372's, 5100, and the mid range saws. The 660 is usually the long bar saw and usually sees alot of stump action as well as dirty wood, so it normally has semi chisel on it for durability.

In clean wood, I actually think sqaure chain holds up longer than round ground. Key words being clean. I wouldn't drag trees through the woods and use square ground to cut it up. Square has a longer edge that will hold longer than the ever so smaller round chisel point. think about a needle vs a basball bat, there is more area on the inital contact of square ground to hold up longer (in my opinion).

Converting round ground chain to square by hand is very labor intensive. I quit converting chains years ago as I dont have a grinder. I buy square chain loops and then maintain it with a file. Once you have the technique down, it is the same difficultness of filing round chain. hardest partis seeing the working corner when you are filing. Also, clean chains are a must to use a chisel bit file. using a chisel bit on a sappy, rocked out chain will just produce an expensive raker file.

 

[Freakingstang]

.

The ATOP race file guide makes a cookie cutting chain with very sharp angles.

Do you have one? I was thinking about getting one to touch up work chains faster than throwing the saw in a vise..... any way to change the angles some? I don't have time to play with saws like I used to. I have a couple EC chains for GTG's that I've never even used...

 

[watsonr]

Yes I did decide. A few gen 2 blocks are being hacked out at a CNC shop.

Let me know when your ready to fix mine. Anything new on a "gen II" block, improvements I'm assuming?

 

[w8ye]

Do you have one? I was thinking about getting one to touch up work chains faster than throwing the saw in a vise..... any way to change the angles some? I don't have time to play with saws like I used to. I have a couple EC chains for GTG's that I've never even used...

The ATOP makes a racing chain. The result is not good for a work chain. Mine looks just like the one in the link below.

In using it you must use the Vallorbe single bevel files

You keep the corner of the file at the point of the cutter and the far end of the file will rest on the Delrin roller.

I use the smallest roller and it stihl makes a race chain. To put tape on the roller or use a bigger roller, the angles get even thinner.

Bailey's - Atop Square Filing Guide with 2 Files

Bailey's - Vallorbe Single Bit Chisel File - 1 Dozen

You will wear out a file just converting a Oregon 72CL chain to the new angles.

 

[Freakingstang]

The ATOP makes a racing chain. The result is not good for a work chain. Mine looks just like the one in the link below.

In using it you must use the Vallorbe single bevel files

You keep the corner of the file at the point of the cutter and the far end of the file will rest on the Delrin roller.

I use the smallest roller and it stihl makes a race chain. To put tape on the roller or use a bigger roller, the angles get even thinner.

Bailey's - Atop Square Filing Guide with 2 Files

Bailey's - Vallorbe Single Bit Chisel File - 1 Dozen

You will wear out a file just converting a Oregon 72CL chain to the new angles.

Thanks... I was hoping for a little more work friendly device, and not havingto buy special files. i have a couple of those single bit files I got from a dealer about 5-6 years ago. They were left over stock from the early 90's/late 80's. I never did like the durabilty of them.

I have a Grandberg chisel bit bar mounted jig, (no longer made as it accepts a normal chisel bit file) but it is more of a pain in the butt to setup, and tightinng the chain tight enough to keep the file from chattering that it is easier to just file them by hand in a vise. i made up some aluminum vise inserts so the teeth on the jaws of the vice didn't damage the DL. The grandberg produces awesome quality for work chains, but it is hard to get the angles for making race chains, without getting the beak situation. this was the last one I converted from round.

 

[w8ye]

I have a Oregon Professional guide set up like your Granberg. I just used the 7/16" hex electric drill bits and cut the file off on each end with a disk grinder. The bits fit right into the last red design of the filing guide.

Looks like your outside vertical angle has too much lead? Should only be 2 degrees. May be the angle the picture was taken?

The important part is how does it cut?

Top outside should be 15-20 degrees according to the chart at Madsen's.

 

[Freakingstang]

That's prolly just the angle of the pic and a crappy camera.. It is setup for the same edges as off the reel Stihl RSK chain. I just set that jig up quick for a pic the last time a square chain thread was started. That file isn't wore out like it looks inthe pics either. It was simply for demonstration.

 

[w8ye]

+1

 

[cutforfun]

With the granberg jig can you rotate everything around so you are filling back towards the stop. I would think that would help with holding the chain tighter

 

[w8ye]

Holding chain tight

I was taught to have the chain reasonably tight on the chainsaw.

Then when you get the chain in position and backed up against the stop, you cram your scrench or a big screw driver in between the chain and the bar on the bottom side. Do your filing on that tooth, jerk the scrench out and move the chain up to the next tooth.

 

[cutforfun]

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I was taught to have the chain reasonably tight on the chainsaw.

Then when you get the chain in position and backed up against the stop, you cram your scrench or a big screw driver in between the chain and the bar on the bottom side. Do your filing on that tooth, jerk the scrench out and move the chain up to the next tooth.

That makes sense, but if you look at stangs picks he is putting force away from the stop and the tooth he is filling is out side of the clamps?