Got to listen to Story Musgrave speak today. Amazing.
The Problem with Normal People
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Jackbnimble
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Was at a mining safety and health conference in Birmingham Alabama. Musgrave is running a palm tree farm in Florida and helping young kids build airplanes - really cool planes.
Jackbnimble
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He was a farmer, aircraft electrician and engine mechanic, U.S. Marine (service in Japan, Korea and Hawaii), father of seven children, holds seven graduate degrees from six institutions (Syracuse University, UCLA, Marietta College, Columbia University, University of Kentucky, University of Houston), physician, private pilot, parachutist, software programmer, guest lecturer, space suit designer, poet, Walt Disney Imagineering consultant, operations analyst for Eastman Kodak, landscape architect, television commentator, Applied Minds Inc. concept artist, photographer, chess player, professor of design, among other things
Renaissance Man
Renaissance Man
Jackbnimble
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msnbc.com staff and news service reports
An Internet pedophile ring with up to 70,000 members — thought to be the world's largest —has been uncovered by police, a security official said Wednesday.
The European police agency Europol said in a statement that "Operation Rescue" had identified 670 suspects and that 230 abused children in 30 countries had been taken to safety. More children are expected to be found, Europol said.
UNBELIEVABLE
An Internet pedophile ring with up to 70,000 members — thought to be the world's largest —has been uncovered by police, a security official said Wednesday.
The European police agency Europol said in a statement that "Operation Rescue" had identified 670 suspects and that 230 abused children in 30 countries had been taken to safety. More children are expected to be found, Europol said.
UNBELIEVABLE
He’s got a lot of hours space walking on shuttle missions. Only astronaut to ride all five shuttles.
Jackbnimble
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Quasar PG 0052+251
1.4 thousand million light-years from Earth, at the core of a normal spiral galaxy. Astronomers are surprised to find host galaxies, such as this one, that appear undisturbed by the strong quasar radiation. Quasars reside in a variety of galaxies, from normal to highly disturbed. When seen through ground-based telescopes, these compact, enigmatic light sources resemble stars, yet they are thousand of millions of light-years away and several hundred thousand million times brighter than normal stars. Astronomers believe that a quasar turns on when a massive black hole at the nucleus of a galaxy feeds on gas and stars. As the matter falls into the black hole, intense radiation is emitted. Eventually, the black hole will stop emitting radiation once it consumes all nearby matter. Then it needs debris from a collision of galaxies or another process to provide more fuel.
DEAR GOD
This image shows quasar PG 0052+251, which is 1.4 billion light-years from Earth, at the core of a normal spiral galaxy. Astronomers are surprised to find host galaxies, such as this one, that appear undisturbed by the strong quasar radiation.
Jackbnimble
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You know what I find interesting? Mankind has committed tremendous energy and resources to discover what occurred at a trillionth of a trillionth of a second after the universe exploded into existence. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It's just if you are going to go to the expense of trying to find out what happened so soon after time began, why not try to figure out, with equal zeal and commitment, how the Big Bang material arrived on the scene in the first place, you know?
How in the world did whatever it was, that erupted into everything, come to be? What precipitated its arrival? How did that tiny speck of intense energy and heat and matter form? From where? What could have put it there? Don't they want to know? Isn't that at least as interesting?
New Map Made of First Trillionth of a Trillionth of a Second After Big Bang
ESA and the Planck Collaboration
How in the world did whatever it was, that erupted into everything, come to be? What precipitated its arrival? How did that tiny speck of intense energy and heat and matter form? From where? What could have put it there? Don't they want to know? Isn't that at least as interesting?
New Map Made of First Trillionth of a Trillionth of a Second After Big Bang
ESA and the Planck Collaboration
OnTheRoad
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What leads you to believe that "they" haven't considered your questions?
Jackbnimble
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i haven't seen the science.
I love science, its various disciplines, the scientific method, and how scientists mathematically derive cause and effect. In some aspects of astrophysics, kind of like the blind man describing the elephant in the room, fascinating but our finite minds can only comprehend so much.
Jackbnimble
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Love science, too, especially the discovery of electricity and its development. The space program is fascinating, building the rockets that took us to the moon, how neurons work, quantum mechanics and physics, even though I'm completely clueless, I like looking at the pictures. The Theory of Relativity is mind boggling.
It might make sense after having built CERN and establishing Higgs/Boson is for real, that the same bunch of electrical engineers and theoretical and experimental physicists put their talents together to try to come up with theories on how the material world came into existence. How did that original spot get here? It just makes sense to me that that is an important consideration. Don't these brainiacs know enough by now about the evolution of the universe from its excruciatingly small first moments of existence to have a pretty good idea what was required to get that dot there? Wouldn't it have to be something unbelievably powerful?, vast?, intelligent?, capable?, willful?, creative?
It might make sense after having built CERN and establishing Higgs/Boson is for real, that the same bunch of electrical engineers and theoretical and experimental physicists put their talents together to try to come up with theories on how the material world came into existence. How did that original spot get here? It just makes sense to me that that is an important consideration. Don't these brainiacs know enough by now about the evolution of the universe from its excruciatingly small first moments of existence to have a pretty good idea what was required to get that dot there? Wouldn't it have to be something unbelievably powerful?, vast?, intelligent?, capable?, willful?, creative?
Jackbnimble
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Just dawned on me. Guess what? Mars is the place to be. Know why? No smog. No air, either, but I can't remember the last time I saw a panoramic view of a large swath of earth that didn't reveal a sickening amount of toxic fumes hovering over somewhere in the background.
JeffGu
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I'm fairly certain that if NASA was forced to read through this entire thread, they'd gladly throw something together that will get you there.
And if it didn't quite make it, oh well!
Jackbnimble
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I made it here so you should be able to get me a return trip ticket.
You'd like to get back to that rest home and the 103 year old.
Jackbnimble
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We got here together. We'll return together.
Jackbnimble
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it is interesting that no one has a scientific theory on this topic. if i were a scientist, i think it would be a relevant subject to research. given what we know about classical and quantum physics, and all the other incredible examples of the mysteries and laws that control and fill the universe (strong force, weak force, entanglement, etc.) i'd want to know what science tells us about the formation of the big bang itself, before it became the explosion.
JeffGu
Antagonist/Heckler
If you stand in an empty room with only one door, and watch as people come in and fill it up, you have a critical piece of information that can safely be considered a fact... that all of the people in the room came through that door. It tells you nothing about how they got to the door, where they came from, or what is on the other side of the door. For that, you need to go out the door, yourself (if we assume the other people aren't willing to tell you).
Nothing that came through the big bang has ever offered an explanation of the process, and we aren't currently able to travel through the process ourselves. It isn't difficult to imagine all sorts of possibilities, chief among them being great piles of horseshit about the Great Tooth Fairy of Galaxy X saying some magical crap and poof! here's the universe. An argument that relies on a silent Creator, or one that is alleged to have revealed all in ancient times in special Scrolls of Enlightenment that on close inspection appear to be an entirely human fabrication, completely devoid of any understanding of what we do know about the universe, is no argument at all. It's like the people in the room in my previous paragraph telling you that there is no door, they have always been in the room. You're a heretic for believing in doors.
So, a better question might be... how do we get to a position from which we can understand the door? What it is, where it goes, why it is there. Not, what's on the other side of the door? Wild speculation rarely results in a better understanding of doors or anything else.
In the meantime, however... you can trade that donkey you won when you picked Door #3 for what's behind the curtain where the girl with huge knockers and a nice smile is standing.
Nothing that came through the big bang has ever offered an explanation of the process, and we aren't currently able to travel through the process ourselves. It isn't difficult to imagine all sorts of possibilities, chief among them being great piles of horseshit about the Great Tooth Fairy of Galaxy X saying some magical crap and poof! here's the universe. An argument that relies on a silent Creator, or one that is alleged to have revealed all in ancient times in special Scrolls of Enlightenment that on close inspection appear to be an entirely human fabrication, completely devoid of any understanding of what we do know about the universe, is no argument at all. It's like the people in the room in my previous paragraph telling you that there is no door, they have always been in the room. You're a heretic for believing in doors.
So, a better question might be... how do we get to a position from which we can understand the door? What it is, where it goes, why it is there. Not, what's on the other side of the door? Wild speculation rarely results in a better understanding of doors or anything else.
In the meantime, however... you can trade that donkey you won when you picked Door #3 for what's behind the curtain where the girl with huge knockers and a nice smile is standing.
Jackbnimble
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"...imagine all sorts of possibilities, chief among them being great piles of horseshit about the Great Tooth Fairy of Galaxy X saying some magical crap and poof!"
Amy other possibilities? Does your make sense?
Are there other examples of material objects appearing suddenly, out of nowhere and nothing?
"If you stand in an empty room with only one door, and watch as people come in and fill it up, you have a critical piece of information that can safely be considered a fact... that all of the people in the room came through that door."
Tis a fact that all people came through one door? So, the door accommodates numerous people of all sizes and shapes.
1. The fact this door exists is proof of an entrance-way 2. It is a fact people had nothing to do with building this particular door. Fact 3. This door is unique. In all recorded history there is no other door we know of that opened the way for all people on earth to enter the room. 4. Fact, we know a room exists.
You state as fact that it is not possible to figure out how the door got there because, "Nothing that came through the big bang has ever offered an explanation of the process..." The best we can do, according to what you believe, is to use our imaginations and speculate, for example, a tooth fairy could say some magical bull and create the universe. So, we cannot determine what happened that initiated the Big Bang in the first place, period. It is impossible to know. That mystery is locked away because the Big Bang itself reveals nothing about it.
You believe, an argument that relies on a silent creator is no argument, period. You believe, an argument, "that is alleged to have revealed all in ancient times in special Scrolls of Enlightenment that on close inspection appear to be an entirely human fabrication, completely devoid of any understanding of what we do know about the universe...." is no argument, either. Therefore, we cannot know what happened but you know for a fact that it didn't take place in the ways you just cited.
A silent Creator? Do you mean to say that a True Creator could/would never be silent ever?
Alleged complete revelations found in special ancient Scrolls of Enlightenment, appearing to be man made lies, cannot be a legitimate argument about how the door got there. Those Scrolls are further disqualified because what they describe contradicts everything that is known about the universe.
A. Are ancient scrolls not reliable just because they are very old? Is it a requisite for a proper argument in this regard that only newly produced documents are trustworthy and accurate? B. Are the Scrolls referenced closely inspected by some scholars who verify their authenticity or are they dismissed by everyone? C. Do these Scrolls appear to be merely a human produced sham, a man-made effort to deceive others, in the view of all scholars who have examined them?
Simple questions really. Can't think of a time when I didn't wonder about this stuff. Einstein attributed the Theory of Relativity to his being a "late developer." Because, as an adult, he said he was still thinking about and pondering things like the speed of light and how gravity works, which he said most children outgrow. (There's hope for me boys.)
Amy other possibilities? Does your make sense?
Are there other examples of material objects appearing suddenly, out of nowhere and nothing?
"If you stand in an empty room with only one door, and watch as people come in and fill it up, you have a critical piece of information that can safely be considered a fact... that all of the people in the room came through that door."
Tis a fact that all people came through one door? So, the door accommodates numerous people of all sizes and shapes.
1. The fact this door exists is proof of an entrance-way 2. It is a fact people had nothing to do with building this particular door. Fact 3. This door is unique. In all recorded history there is no other door we know of that opened the way for all people on earth to enter the room. 4. Fact, we know a room exists.
You state as fact that it is not possible to figure out how the door got there because, "Nothing that came through the big bang has ever offered an explanation of the process..." The best we can do, according to what you believe, is to use our imaginations and speculate, for example, a tooth fairy could say some magical bull and create the universe. So, we cannot determine what happened that initiated the Big Bang in the first place, period. It is impossible to know. That mystery is locked away because the Big Bang itself reveals nothing about it.
You believe, an argument that relies on a silent creator is no argument, period. You believe, an argument, "that is alleged to have revealed all in ancient times in special Scrolls of Enlightenment that on close inspection appear to be an entirely human fabrication, completely devoid of any understanding of what we do know about the universe...." is no argument, either. Therefore, we cannot know what happened but you know for a fact that it didn't take place in the ways you just cited.
A silent Creator? Do you mean to say that a True Creator could/would never be silent ever?
Alleged complete revelations found in special ancient Scrolls of Enlightenment, appearing to be man made lies, cannot be a legitimate argument about how the door got there. Those Scrolls are further disqualified because what they describe contradicts everything that is known about the universe.
A. Are ancient scrolls not reliable just because they are very old? Is it a requisite for a proper argument in this regard that only newly produced documents are trustworthy and accurate? B. Are the Scrolls referenced closely inspected by some scholars who verify their authenticity or are they dismissed by everyone? C. Do these Scrolls appear to be merely a human produced sham, a man-made effort to deceive others, in the view of all scholars who have examined them?
Simple questions really. Can't think of a time when I didn't wonder about this stuff. Einstein attributed the Theory of Relativity to his being a "late developer." Because, as an adult, he said he was still thinking about and pondering things like the speed of light and how gravity works, which he said most children outgrow. (There's hope for me boys.)
