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Underbidding

lxt

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I agree faster might be better & make you more $$$, However when I had the 5 ton with grapple, the track skid steer, the track stumper....these Items would sit more than work!
So you no longer have a grapple, track steer or grinder? Is this why it takes you an entire day to do payroll? Seems to me payments on this equipment would be cheaper than hordes of full time laborers.

Most folks are keeping the wood in my area to offset heating costs, most dont care about the stump aspects of the tree & if they do...there is a guy that will do any size stump so cheap I cant/wouldnt even think about it.
I wish I had more of these customers.

bottom line is most just want the tree down cause the height & danger are something they dont want to even mess with, so there I am with 100k of equipment with $1000 worth of fuel sitting back at the yard doing nothing, It wasnt always like this though, seems the past 2yrs it has just steadily kept going down hill.
Only 100k in those pieces of equipment? C'mon, either they were absolute POS's or your full of it. I wasn't born yesterday.



The guys in my area with all the nice shiny equip. are the cheapest, they`re scared to death of loosing there Azz, they have to work to make the payments..........so all the hacks underbid them & now the price is so far south I dont see how any one of them can make it.
Why are they the cheapest? Because they're FAST!

Whats funny is right now I am booked through to may, while still thinking about taking a utility job?????? I down sized to save my work force!! It seems to be working for me just sucks having to do more things manually again!!
This one just doesn't make any sense to me. You mean you're thinking of taking a full time job? What about all your guys? Or are you thinking about doing a line clearing/utility job with your crew? What does this have to do with saving your workforce? Honestly, I'm just confused.


Well let me Help you understand!!! NO, as I said & you read it right I no longer have those toys!!! LOL...cheaper than Labor, you better go back to school & re-learn economics!!! Try finding people to drive, operate & take care of that equipment, try insuring all that equipment, try fueling all that equipment. Its bad enough finding employees let alone employees with a CDL, Med card who havent gotten 20 DUI`s that my insurance laughs at me when I try to put them on!!

The equipment was overkill for my area & I was unable/didnt want to continue paying for items that sat, registration, road tax, insurance, etc... are you getting it NOW!!!

Yes, Mcfly only 100k...... skid steer $21,000 Track stumper $34,500 & 1 5ton International with log loading boom $42,000..........sorry it came to $97,500, No they were not POS, passed DOT audit every time, stumper was brandnew, skid a few years old & the Int. was a 95. with a retrofitted/fabbed cemetary monument crane that I got for a real good price!!

You can save alot when you Fab & do some of the work your self, I was at home all day groundie #1 to do payroll, answer some calls & to bust your stupid [email protected] on here if that answers your question.

I am Booked till May however I am thinking about letting my main climber/operator run the show while I do some LCTT for the utility.....WHY? to save money & be more competitive, I wont have to pay myself as much cause the LCTT job will offset the wage................so I can give my men a well deserved raise!!! when the lowball hacks & wanna be trimmer groundies go away then I will return & pick up where I left off!!! did this a back in latter part of 06 & worked well..

Their cheapest cause work is SLOW & most are on the brink of going belly up!!


Hope this answered all your questions :dizzy:


LXT.................
 

lxt

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Where do I begin

At the risk of having everyone on here hate me...

I'm an underbidder. Because I need to be. Because poorly paid work is better than no work at all.

My partners and I are just getting our business up and running and have no client base whatsoever.

We have the skills. Over 20 years collective experience and 1 partner with a bachelors in environmental studies. We trim without spikes ( which no one, even the "big guys" do around here )

We can tackle almost any takedown, but are still trying to build our business.

I feel sorry for the guys we underbid, we can do things so cheap is because we have no overhead and still maintain or day jobs. I understand your guys pain, but I don't want to wear some other guys name on the back of my shirt the rest of my life. I need to start somewhere.
MMmmmmm..... focusing on work to avoid DUI`s, Groundman/climber in training!!! A proclaimed underbidder with no client base, 20 yrs combined exp., trim without spikes, can tackle ANY take down.......but yet you feel bad for who you underbid!!!

Where do I begin????? any take down? my man you have an entry level slightly above pickup truck tree service :dizzy: why do you use the word WE? you are a grunt wanting to be a climber, all three of you put together have 20 whole years.....of what!!! I have underwear with more tree experience than that..LOL

BA in enviromental studies....whoo wee!!! that will come in handy when someone needs to know the effects their septic system is having on their grass/soil.........dont mean squat for Climbing!!!

you dont understand why I would take a day job & let my guys run the show? but yet you talk about your day jobs & low overhead.....why was it so hard for you to understand what I was trying to say?

Blake, you openly admit to underbidding, Ive read your Bio, I think you are a HACK.....no wait...Low balling groundie hack!! anyone who admits to working to avoid DUI`s is far from professional & trustworthy (now you understand why I let the toys go) Underbidding, DUI, groundie, who feels bad for us.. the guys who have to hire then fire people just like this!! your a joke!!

LXT.................
 
Blakesmaster

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Knew that would get a rise outta ya. LXT, you crack me up. For pages and pages you've been bashing the guys with day jobs trying to make yourself look like a big time operator than you turn around, act like 100k in equipment ( that you don't have anymore ) is big time and get a day job. You're a joke. $100k will barely cover 3 guys salaries for a year. You need a CDL to operate a stump grinder? Guess I should turn myself in.

Like I said before, we are young and just getting started. I think sinking 20k debt free into a business in a year and a half is a damn good way to start. I have mainly been doing groundwork and am in training to climb but I have a lot of experience in felling and equipment operation. My partner has been climbing for the better part of 8 years doing plenty of take downs and trim work while our other partner has been in college. Though not directly related, an environmental degree will have it's benefits, not to mention he's the one that's been rec climbing for the past 10 years.

Basically the point is that I'm still learning, I've had my indiscretions in the past and am moving on with my life, I'm turning my business legit and starting to expand instead of standing on my soapbox yelling "woe is me" at the top of my lungs.
 
HolmenTree

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Shouldn't this thread be on Arborist 101. It seems its just about part timers defending their actions against the pros . Take some advice from an old pro: Anybody who advertises in their signature that their work saws are 015,ms170,ms180,028 or an 018 [consumer saws] would never be a reputable full time tree service. I'd like to see your climbing and rigging gear. Yes weekend saws are for weekenders. As the old saying goes you can judge a good mechanic by his tools. :greenchainsaw:
 
CLEARVIEW TREE

CLEARVIEW TREE

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No bashimg here please

Hey bud don't judge a book by it's cover. If that's what they use to do there job, so be it man! You shouldn't say they are not reputable companies since they don't run pro saws. He may have an arsenal of hot saws and not had room to post it all. Think before you speak man. If you can't say anything nice don't at all here. Give em a break pal:chainsaw:
 
Nailsbeats

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Right on, notice I took my Poulan 2150 off my sig, why? cause I am ashamed to own it. Well I traded for it, wait, thats no good either. I found it on the side of the road, thats it.
 
HolmenTree

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Hey bud don't judge a book by it's cover. If that's what they use to do there job, so be it man! You shouldn't say they are not reputable companies since they don't run pro saws. He may have an arsenal of hot saws and not had room to post it all. Think before you speak man. If you can't say anything nice don't at all here. Give em a break pal:chainsaw:
227 posts on this thread of back and forth bashing .Most of the posts here had nothing nice to say. Myself being a full time operator I side with the full timers. Too many part time guys hurting the tree care industry, raising workers comp and insurance costs every year. Too many part timers rigging down trees with unreliable consumer saws causing accidents, thats only part of it , if their saws are not efficient for the job then how about their climbing,rigging gear ? Probably not much better either.People's safety and not causing property damage revolves around proper equipment used on the jobsite.Why would you want it any other way.

I have never owned a consumer saw and for good reason ,I make my living with my saws. Part timers going on in this thread about everything they do is justifiable and calling the pros idiots. If I was a part timer and wanted to be full time one day ,I would learn to be as professional as I can. Have a professional image [that goes with how you think] Don't advertise consumer saws in the worksaw line up when you have just as many pro saws. Don't go on jabbering about how good your day job is but get a kick out of making it tough for the full timer.The only way a part timer can start to get professional is to show some respect towards the pros and learn from them.The guys who paid their dues.
 
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lxt

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Knew that would get a rise outta ya. LXT, you crack me up. For pages and pages you've been bashing the guys with day jobs trying to make yourself look like a big time operator than you turn around, act like 100k in equipment ( that you don't have anymore ) is big time and get a day job. You're a joke. $100k will barely cover 3 guys salaries for a year. You need a CDL to operate a stump grinder? Guess I should turn myself in.

Like I said before, we are young and just getting started. I think sinking 20k debt free into a business in a year and a half is a damn good way to start. I have mainly been doing groundwork and am in training to climb but I have a lot of experience in felling and equipment operation. My partner has been climbing for the better part of 8 years doing plenty of take downs and trim work while our other partner has been in college. Though not directly related, an environmental degree will have it's benefits, not to mention he's the one that's been rec climbing for the past 10 years.

Basically the point is that I'm still learning, I've had my indiscretions in the past and am moving on with my life, I'm turning my business legit and starting to expand instead of standing on my soapbox yelling "woe is me" at the top of my lungs.

I havent bashed anybody as long as their legit, professional & bestow respect for others, you on the other hand are a tree trimmer wannabe FARSE!!

I never said I was big time!!! I am small potatoes compared to many, however I am legit, care for my Men & their families. I run my biz the best way I can so everyone prospers!!

I dont purposely underbid!! Yes when I had all the toys I needed drivers with a CDL.......you having no idea whats needed shows your in-experience, A skid steer & stump machine on the same trailer weigh a little more than 10,001lbs........can you say CDL, you run pickup trucks with a handful of saws, LOL

I bashed those with day jobs unrelated to tree care, I have other biz ventures in the works & didnt sell the equip. for the purposes of just giving it out in raises.

You let your mouth combined with stupidity overload your brains ability to rationalize & understand!! you bust on me saying 100k POS equip. having not a clue.............I could buy your little wannabe biz 5 times over!!!

I am puzzled by biz owners like you, 20k start a biz & then bad mouth & try to cutthroat the type of people who gave you a chance & helped train & get you interested in the first place.........

Get a rise outta me? Nah, you make me laugh. you are a self proclaimed underbidder, have been busted for Driving Drunk (reason CDL rules arent a priority for you), a groundie trimmer wannabe, pick up truck saw toting work a day job type that comes on here to try to find respect......

WELL guess what? I have none for people like you, I respect everyone in this trade but when some one like you spouts off claiming what you claim I just dont!! maybe its the fact you`re only 27, new to the field or whatever.

You have a long way to go, Ive read your questions/threads/posts & you are searching because you dont know (thats good). So dont open your mouth unless you really know something worth 2 craps.

When I need advice Blake I`ll be sure to start a thread asking for advice from Drunk Driving Groundmen who underbid!! Yeah you`re a real Pro!!


LXT..................
 
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Blakesmaster

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I want to take this opportunity to apologize for my part in the antics on this thread. I'm not here to make any enemies. I don't look at my sig or my profile as an "advertisement" for my business, it's simply who I am and what I have. More of a "this is me, maybe we have something in common." Those who choose to pick apart all the "less than awesome" parts of what I own and what I've done are simply looking to get a rise, like I did with LXT. Hopefully we can all try to be a bit more respectful of each other.
 
tree MDS

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I want to take this opportunity to apologize for my part in the antics on this thread. I'm not here to make any enemies. I don't look at my sig or my profile as an "advertisement" for my business, it's simply who I am and what I have. More of a "this is me, maybe we have something in common." Those who choose to pick apart all the "less than awesome" parts of what I own and what I've done are simply looking to get a rise, like I did with LXT. Hopefully we can all try to be a bit more respectful of each other.
Aww, don't quit now, it was just getting interesting.
 
Blakesmaster

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Aww, don't quit now, it was just getting interesting.
No seriously, this is supposed to be an informative website. I thought about it today and was gonna come back and make a statement like I'd sell all my saws and trucks because downsizing is the key but that would just be childish, no?
 

lxt

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No seriously, this is supposed to be an informative website. I thought about it today and was gonna come back and make a statement like I'd sell all my saws and trucks because downsizing is the key but that would just be childish, no?


for you that would be a going outta biz small yard sale!!!......JUST KIDDING!

Hey everyone starts somewhere, but knowing how to carry yourself & what to say/not say, etc... means alot on a pro level.

LXT.......
 
tree MDS

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Stoke

for you that would be a going outta biz small yard sale!!!......JUST KIDDING!

Hey everyone starts somewhere, but knowing how to carry yourself & what to say/not say, etc... means alot on a pro level.

LXT.......
Nice! Stoke..stoke..:)
 
Blakesmaster

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Actually I'm thinking of buying a 30 year old dump truck and a genie lift, then I can run with the big dogs!
 

lxt

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Whats forgotten

Where I think most new biz`s get the wrong idea is in what they dont see in the field!!

I am fortunate enough that my Dad has a few acres where I can dump & compost chips along with areas just for wood, what most dont see is the time & equipment back at the yard.

you dump ump teen loads of chips you gotta push that stuff around, let alone rakings, small stubs, unwanted wood, etc... I have a little money tied up in yard machines that dont make me $$$$ but tidy up what I dump.

fuel & maint. on these machines counts sometimes just as much as whats used in the field, If I cant dump cause theres no room Im :censored: .

Just cause I know someone will ask; I have an international harvester 3120 loader with hoe, good small commercial sized machine...older unit but just rebuilt the motor, runs great!! & a john deere 440 crawler....needs a top end rebuild (doing this summer), without these 2 machines.....Id have a mountain of debris. so sometimes what happens behind the scenes is just as important as in the field.

hope this helps some understand whats involved when you reach a certain level & to go past that level puts you in a whole other bracket, I dont know if I was suppose to go to level so soon.

LXT.........
 
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