Using personal climbing gear and saws for company work

[SemperFiSawguy]

So im a "new" climber, have only been climbing for about a year, i did alot of rope work in the marine corps so ive had a headstart in that way. I have been doing landscaping and tree work on my own for about 7 months and i still do on weekends but i recently took a job as a full time climber for $20 an hour with a local company. His saws are all husqy homeowner saws and two MS193Ts that are also junk that are beat to hell, never start and half of them dont oil. So typically i bring my own saws and fuel/oil strictly for my own convienence. My question is whats a fair price for me using my own saws and climbing and rigging gear? His "climbing gear" is all crappy leather stuff that looks like it remembers the great deppression and is more lineman gear then suitable arborist gear. I refuse to use it as it isnt safe in my opinion and half his ropes are cut or chaffed. I use all nice new sampson ropes so for me its easier and safer to just use my gear, i just dont let any of the groundies touch my stuff. Im located in SE MN as well so we dont demand the big money for tree removal like the city boys do out here its really small town feel and alot of people just dont have the money city people do.

 

[CacaoBoy]

I'm not sure I would be concerned about "whats a fair price for me using my own saws and climbing and rigging gear" as I would be concerned about whether working as a climber for this guy is going to get you killed or maimed.

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Thats a fair point, he doesnt use a fall arrest harness in the bucket truck either and im the only one that wears a helmet. (My petzyl vertex) ive been tying into the bucket truck with my saddle and a dynamic piece of 14 strand rope so i dont break my back if i get flung out of it but i know it isnt ideal. Im a young guy but it seems like im directing safety for the owner and the otber employees. Bottom line is if im in the tree or in the boom im in charge of the job site and coordinating with the groundie so that everyone is safe, i have a radio on my petzyls ear pro but the owner doesnt want to invest in coms for the ground guys. So usually i listen to music if im doing anything mundane. that being said i make more in a weekend doing tree work on the side then i do making $20 an hour.

 

[CatMan Fetters]

Personally I would never work with people that don’t take tree work serious!!

 

[WmTreeCo.]

Is there a tree service close to you with people who actually care?

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Is there a tree service close to you with people who actually care?

No, not really. Most of my competitors and other companys are hacks, have bucket trucks, and chippers. Use ladders instead of climb, dont tie in at all etc. The one i work for now is definetly the oldest in my area, the old man retired and now his son owns it.

 

[benjo75]

A climber using his own gear.
Sounds like a contract climber to me. Might try getting your own insurance then just set your own price.

 

[ATH]

Have you asked for new equipment? That might be a difficult sell since you have already set president by bringing it and using it - why would they pay for what you provide for free?

Seems like you have 3 options if they won't buy new equipment:
1) Keep providing your own equipment...and you'll pay for the wear and tear.
2) Quit providing your own equipment and use what he already has.
3) Move on.

As an owner, I would never expect an employee to provide their own equipment or safety gear. Nor would I expect them to be productive with raggety gear - I save money by spending $140 for a new rope that keeps you moving efficiently.

Now, if it is just because you like Stihl instead of Husqvarna and my Husky saws are in good running order, too bad. But if it is time to buy a new saw and my primary climber likes Stihl, I'll buy a Stihl. Likewise, if I get you set up with climbing gear and you decide this week that you want a zigzag then next week want an Akimbo, I'm not going to play that game.

I try to make it clear "I want you to have what you need to do the job safely and do it well...but I am a bit of a cheapskate, so don't go wasting money!"

Had 1 worker who wanted to bring her own gloves. I offered on multiple occasions, "let me know what you want and I'll get them"..."buy what you like and give me a receipt", etc... but she just said she is good with those, so I quit arguing.

 

[tfp]

Will his insurance cover a claim if it was your own private gear that failed and hurt someone or damaged something?

 

[The Singing Arborist]

It's pretty common in our industry for a climber to supply some of the more personalized items for climbing, like saddle, carabiners, climbing hitch cords, etc. I believe an employer should provide that stuff, but many would disagree.

It should be universal, however, that the higher wear and tear items like chainsaws, ropes, pruners, etc. should be provided by the employer.

When it comes to your safety, don't compromise. Use your climbing stuff if you really like/need this job. You can get tax write offs for that stuff. When it comes to job performance, if he wants you to perform, he needs to provide you with strong and reliable tools.

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

It's pretty common in our industry for a climber to supply some of the more personalized items for climbing, like saddle, carabiners, climbing hitch cords, etc. I believe an employer should provide that stuff, but many would disagree.

It should be universal, however, that the higher wear and tear items like chainsaws, ropes, pruners, etc. should be provided by the employer.

When it comes to your safety, don't compromise. Use your climbing stuff if you really like/need this job. You can get tax write offs for that stuff. When it comes to job performance, if he wants you to perform, he needs to provide you with strong and reliable tools.

Thank you!! Im not going to insinuate that iam a knowledgable or even experienced climber, capable and safe. Yes. The most efficient, and fast? Not even close. Im learning something knew everyday. My personal safety and my groundies safety is my #1 priority. The chainsaw piece irritates me some but id rather deal with the wear on my own saws then throw out my arm trying to coldstart a 450 rancher or MS193T. Especially when they bog down and die off idle!

 

[benjo75]

Years ago I climbed for another tree service in my spare time. He always had an old saddle, spurs and what used to be a rope. I always use my own gear no matter what so I just used my gear and left it at that. I'm more comfortable with my own saws anyway. Maybe he'll see the value in you having your own gear and being safety conscious and pay you a little more or at least offer to buy the gear you want. If not, you might start looking for someone else to work for.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Why did you stop making more money and take $20/hr job? That doesn't make any sense. Dump the job and do it yourself.

If it's him and a bunch of hacks, it sounds like a great business opportunity. Start a business, go legit, and live the dream.

OR

Contract climb and set your price.

 

[BC WetCoast]

A couple of jobs not getting done because saws wont run will quickly get his attention, considering whats he paying in wages and taxes vs what he isnt making in revenue.

Weve had guys use their own saws even though we have perfectly good ones. In that case, your choice, but its your dime.

 

[NeSurfcaster]

Get out of there while your still alive, Groundies need to be sharp too or they'll kill u while rigging down pieces. I understand your still green at climbing(me too) and desperate for climber work but you gotta weigh your options. But I couldn't work with someone like your boss. I'd like to see insurance and workers comp in writing. Good luck to ya and be safe man

 

[old CB]

$20/hr for a climber makes me think Yikes! But I was young once, needing work, and you take what's available. Reading between the lines, seems like if you had better options you'd take them.

You're wise to use your own stuff that you can depend on, rather than taking risks on sketchy equipment. The headaches of making do with poor equipment also take a toll at the end of the day.

The questions you ask make it clear that you have your head screwed on right. Gain what experience you can in your current gig, then move on when you can. You'll learn a lot doing what you're doing.

Take your time and think as you work. Don't allow yourself to be rushed into bad situations. Make sure your groundies know what you need from them.

Your employer probably knows you are a cut above the rest. Don't be afraid to ask for what you need from him.

There's great advice to be had on this site. Look your jobs over ahead of time when you can, and consider what they might require. (Despite all kinds of planning, you often do things different once you're up in the tree.)

All the best to you.

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Thank you so much for the input guys, i take it to heart, all in all they are GOOD guys, but i think theyve gotten complacent in their experience level and forget the basics when it comes to safety and im aware of that. Its 20 an hour with no benefits either which is ****, i still do side jobs on weekends but there was a while were the sidework wouldnt support my family or pay my mortgage, small towns are sparse and spread out and the only advertising ive ever done is word of mouth but im slowly picking up steam. Heres my first time climbing out of the bucket the other day in the rain!! Had to gaff up another 15 feet to rig up a cable choker for the crane, that was also my first time working with a crane! Crazy stuff. I hold your guys word highly as i have no ecperienced climber to mentor me other then youtube and the tree climbers companion. Im constantly sucking information like a sponge from august hunicke, buckin billy ray, human and that british fellow red something. They are all awesome since im a visual learner.

 

[ATH]

Working with a crane with no formal training sounds like a whole nother level of 'no thanks' to me. I've never done crane work, but understand there are many more variables to deal with there...

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Theres alot, and the bossman chose a rigging point that was to low even after i told him, sure enough it layed flat instead of straight up and down after the pick and almost knocked him out of the bucket while he was cutting it, i would have done a V" cut and lowered the boom allowing the crane plenty of time to lift while i was clear, he just cut it off flush and sure enough it almost killed him. Needless to say if i dont pick the rigging point. Im not cutting it.

 

[ATH]

Theres alot, and the bossman chose a rigging point that was to low even after i told him, sure enough it layed flat instead of straight up and down after the pick and almost knocked him out of the bucket while he was cutting it, i would have done a V" cut and lowered the boom allowing the crane plenty of time to lift while i was clear, he just cut it off flush and sure enough it almost killed him. Needless to say if i dont pick the rigging point. Im not cutting it.

There was a discussion about this on another forum. Climber did die.

The software won't let me link there. Search tree buzz 42129 and it should be the first result (especially if you get rid of the space)