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Whats the deal with these knock offs and how do they get away with it?

Jhenderson

Jhenderson

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During WWII the US government stole Stihls design and built knock offs for military use ,they abandoned the practice after the war.
I look at what Husqvarna brand did to Poulan ,McCulloch, and other great American saw companies and felt no pain in buying a 372xp knock off ,But hey I don't begrudge others for their higher moral beliefs , its just that everyone has been guilty of patent infringement in some for or another .
If you don't want to support China thats cool I'm not big on them subjugating Tibet and exiling the Dali Lama, kind of a dirty deal.

Too bad you support your own country as much as you do Tibet .
 
ChoppyChoppy

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EPA should be doing their job, not pissing around with small engine regulations.

They should be doing something about chemical farming, for one thing. Now there's a mess that needs to be cleaned up. Idiots.

If EPA didn't force manufacturers into building ever more complex things, perhaps prices could stay at a point where the Chinese competition would simply not be attractive.

the EPA misdirects the public's focus from where the real problems lie.

Just like OSHA, the EPA has zero concern on the repercussions of whatever rules they come up with.

The engine that makes exhaust 5x cleaner than the old model... that's a win for them.
Doesn't matter that it's 3x the cost with dozens more parts, reduced fuel economy, decreased lifespan, increased downtime, and requires an additional chemical (DEF).

Considering the additional pollution with making all the extra parts, failure and replacement of those parts, additional chemicals and infrastructure to make, store and dispense it, regen, etc, etc onr has to doubt it fixed anything at all.

Heck, now they are pushing to outright ban internal combustion engines.

EPA was formed in the 70s largely due to river fires from the pollution, which was a good thing to fix, BUT it effectively just moved much of the pollution to other places, like China, India, and Mexico.

Look at PM2.5, which is the reason wood stoves are on the EPA "bad" list.
Average PM2.5 level in China is several times above what the EPA considers ok.
 
Husky Man

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Gee guys, thanks for bringing this forum down to the level of sordid political partisan BS that's tearing this country up right now. How 'bout we talk about saws again?

Looks to me like there have been some VERY APPROPRIATE replies to the subject of the thread title, AND we Are Talking about SAWS, but if this all Hurts your Sensitive Feelings, THAT is what the BACK BUTTON is for:rolleyes:


Doug :cheers:
 
toadman

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no political BS intended, but I have several 440, 660, and 372 clones & like most people who've actually used them I find mine function fine when cared for.
Sure they have occasional problems, they're not perfect.
that's why I also own name brand saws.
I don't get into who/where something is made anymore.
 
Franny K

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no political BS intended, but I have several 440, 660, and 372 clones & like most people who've actually used them I find mine function fine when cared for.
Sure they have occasional problems, they're not perfect.
that's why I also own name brand saws.
I don't get into who/where something is made anymore.
Do the 440, 660, and 372 clones you have come with a clean air index tag? Is there a 75, 125 or 300 hour rating to the muffler or the like that seem to come with the chainsaws and brush cutters and the like I have purchased lately new? The thread is a title and a link for post 1. It would seem that is the topic for discussion.

I read an article a few months ago about this Diesel Dave and his tv show and vehicle sales. It is a private lawyer that got the settlement for him violating emissions rules. Perhaps this is kind of why.
 
LoneOak

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Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Stihl and Husqvarna actually sold these Chinese manufacturing companies the molds and tooling to produce these EoL saws? Seems logical to want to add one last million on the financial report of final sales per model....out with a bang??
 
TheBrushSlasher

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Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Stihl and Husqvarna actually sold these Chinese manufacturing companies the molds and tooling to produce these EoL saws? Seems logical to want to add one last million on the financial report of final sales per model....out with a bang??

That's definitely something else to consider, they are even copying the ms 170 now.
 
TheBrushSlasher

TheBrushSlasher

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Do the 440, 660, and 372 clones you have come with a clean air index tag? Is there a 75, 125 or 300 hour rating to the muffler or the like that seem to come with the chainsaws and brush cutters and the like I have purchased lately new? The thread is a title and a link for post 1. It would seem that is the topic for discussion.

I read an article a few months ago about this Diesel Dave and his tv show and vehicle sales. It is a private lawyer that got the settlement for him violating emissions rules. Perhaps this is kind of why.

They don't come with one.

If Stihl and husqvarna really wanted to stop the sale of these saws they would go after the giant gorillas in the room named AMAZON and ALIBABA but that's not going to happen.
 
Justsaws

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Here is how it was explained to me...

Unless things have changed...

The plaintiff(Stihl,etc.) must request fed intervention and prove that great harm has been done to them. This process is not free of expense or quick. Different for individual parts, complete parts sets and complete saws.

As patents have long expired, this becomes difficult. Editing to add the words, almost pointless.

Trademark infringement being a whole different situation. Equally odd in requirements. A bit easier if the trademark is iconic in nature.

In terms of the EPA, it becomes a game of numbers. If they import and sell enough complete machines under a single company then it becomes easier to enforce, kind of. Feel free to be angry at the main OEM *** import manufacturers for setting up the rules that way. Yeah, you should be pissed at Stihl and Husqvarna, they set the rules.

At this point it should be noted that an individual US citizen purchasing these saw kits or saws with the intention of reselling them is at greater risk then the importer if they are selling them as “new” complete items. Again, it becomes a numbers game, however the threshold can be a good bit lower. And no, there is no such thing as a “hobby” if the items were purchased to be resold. Purchasing things to be resold is one of many definitions pertaining to conducting business.

Beyond that, it is a question of quality versus cost. Consumer beware.

If the OEM *** manufacturers believed it was costing them enough money they would persuade the various agencies to do something, if nothing else start revamping the regulations to provide them better market protections.

In theory, someone could ask that they be defined as a risk to the safety and well being of the intended user. This is a slow and arduous task, proving that the knockoffs pose a much greater risk to the intended user than a non knockoff equivalent(defined by price point, size, etc.), this is something that the state of California could do if it was not entirely dependent on Chinese government investment. It would be an uphill battle in any case as it has to be a greater risk. Easier to do with things like cosmetics, jewelry and toys, pertaining to heavy metals, etc.. Even then it is still a game of whack a mole.

At this point, if you are a coffee/tea drinker you should check the mugs that you use for where the mugs were made. If not US after 1990, get a lead kit and check them. You might be surprised. Of course if you have been using that novelty mug for awhile might not be any lead left. Do you get acid stomach? Use antacids regularly? Do you have irritable bowels and or stomach aches?
 
TheBrushSlasher

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It’s not up to them. It’s up to our govt to treat the importers the same as they do the legitimate manufacturers.

They have a lot of control over it and it can be done just by changing their seller terms and conditions to where outdoor power equipment would need proof of EPA/CARB certification.
 
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