Which tree?

[Eckie]

So many potential trees to mill...so little time.....

Before i even ask the question, I will start by saying that i expect to get answers like: "it depends", "mill all of them", "no way to tell till you open them up", "can't judge a book by it's cover", "depends on what your market/customers want" etc etc etc....

But I'll ask anyway....has anyone ever figured out how to "read" a tree and have an idea that it will be "worth" milling? For "worth" in this case, I'm defining it as unique wood, grain pattern, color and other features that may add value to a natural type live edge slab. I'm not talking about grade and clear type lumber.

I assume knots and burl type features on the outside and crotches indicate "features " inside, but does anyone have any insight on other stuff to look for? Any trends on how/ where the tree was growing affects inside? For instance, on a you tube sawing vid i watched, the guy talked about creek bank walnut having more color (it seemed to him, in his experience).

Just wondering if all your experience has pointed you in any direction as to what to saw, or if everyone just saws whatever they get their hands on...

 

[RockChucker30]

What kind of mill do you have?


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[Eckie]

660, hope to get a 48 inch granberg soon. 36 inch bar right now, prob upgrade to a 42 in bar sometime

 

[RockChucker30]

Look for stuff that bandmills can't or won't do. A 40" wide red oak slab is rare because 1. Not many make it that big, 2. Most bandmills can't cut a slab that wide.

So there is value there on the oversized, knotty, ugly, yard trees because nobody mills them.

If you're cutting 4-6" wide quartersawn oak 4/4 with a chainsaw mill and expecting to make money...well the bandmills can produce it a lot cheaper.

For me chainsaw milling is a hobby that makes good use of a resource I have access to. If I were doing it for profit I'd be talking to tree service guys and finding big ugly character trees and selling to guys making epoxy repaired live edge slab stuff.


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[Eckie]

Yeah im not looking to produce small boards...right now not really expecting to make a lot on anything really cause i dont even know where my market is yet. But i want to mill amd produce some slabs to make a table for our new place )after drying time etc...) i have access to TONS of trees, especially red and white oak, some are beautiful logs. But i cant chainsaw mill them all obviously. Just looking for ideas if theres anybtraits to look for to get that "character wood"

 

[RockChucker30]

Knots, burl, defect, and rot. Old logs sitting on the ground for years...if they're solid in the middle they may be spalted. Crotchwood produces some awesome grain.


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[Eckie]

Thanks rockchucker. If a limb (limbs) comes off more towards 90 degrees from the tree, does that produce any good grain, or is it only crotchs? Its hard not to want to saw a 25_30 plus inch oak log thats straight as an arrow...just guess i wont get the character out of that.

I know where a water's edge walnut os thats broke up, hope to get to that and slab it. Should be good stuff if the "creekbank" thing from earlier is true...

 

[andy]

One tip of many I’m sure.

Look for “compression” ripples in the bark.
Usually related to figuring in the cut boards.
A tree with uneven weight at or near it’s base will often show this on the load side.
Here in the pnw we see it in big Western Maple trees.

 

[Ancient One]

Some Pacific Big Leaf Maple we cut in the 1990's and milled into gunstock blanks.

Crooks and twists and big crotches usually have nice grain. But not always! You have to cut a lot of trees and slab away to see what you have.

Another tree about 10 miles from the one above. Actually a twin trunk on one stump, look close. This one had fantastic grain, especially the big crotch up high. It was a widow maker and the guys had to work hard to drop both trunks without getting hurt.

The slope was pretty steep:

At the sawmill, note the big twist and knarls in the log:

Ripples in the bark, especially at near the ground level, usually indicate good grain. Notice the ripples in these stock blanks and the grain underneath. (Bark has been peeled). These blanks have been
curing since 1995.

Grain to die for. No finish or oil, just planed.

Fresh off the duplicator and sanded:

 

[Eckie]

I can recognize compression and tension wood, but never heard of compression ripples. Not sure if I've seen it and just didnt know thats what it was. Maybe red maples do that as well? Thanks andy, I'll start paying more attention for that.

Ancient one, nice pics, good to see sequence of tree to product. That's some beautiful grain. Does the Pacific Big Leaf Maple grow like that often, or is that a very unique speciman? What size do you cut for gun stock blanks? Do you cut a lot for stocks, or was that just because of that fantastic grain?

 

[Eckie]

This goes to prove you can't judge a book by its cover. I got started milling an old storm born red oak that had been on the ground for years. The outside looks terrible, but the inside is amazing.

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Rockchucker.....i saw these pics the other day when you posted and found them again. That grain color variation is what im interested in. Do you think that is a result of the tree being down for so long, or do you think that tree would have had that look even if it'd been milled when it was green? Maybe i need to start eyeing trees that look too far gone.....

 

[Ancient One]

I can recognize compression and tension wood, but never heard of compression ripples. Not sure if I've seen it and just didnt know thats what it was. Maybe red maples do that as well? Thanks andy, I'll start paying more attention for that.

Ancient one, nice pics, good to see sequence of tree to product. That's some beautiful grain. Does the Pacific Big Leaf Maple grow like that often, or is that a very unique speciman? What size do you cut for gun stock blanks? Do you cut a lot for stocks, or was that just because of that fantastic grain?

I was in a gun stock blank frenzy in the 1990's with a friend. He probably cut and sold 400 blanks. Bigger trees were the ones, he wanted at least 30 inches diameter, bigger is better. Not many trees had the good grain we were looking for, and some of the logs were more firewood than good grain for stock blanks. We got pretty good at selecting the proper tree: The compression wrinkles at the base of the trunk. Ideal conditions for the right tree included growing on a slope, north facing side of the slope, lots of rain fall. Where I live in WA State out on the North Olympic Peninsula, it is a rain forest and very mountainous, so the trees are there if you can find them.

We do not cut blanks anymore, not enough lifetime left for me to cure them and have them ready for sale. Plus the big trees are becoming harder and harder to find. All of ours came from private property. It takes about 20 or so years for a good air cure in our climate. Kiln curing will weaken the grain, a no no for gunstocks.

I have about 30 good blanks left and maybe the same in plain grain, I used the plan grain for making pattern stocks. All are for sale, including my gunstock duplicator.

He had a Woodmizer for cutting the blanks, trimming a blank up in this photo:

A sample piece below, about 3 inches wide. With 20 coats of hand rubbed oil finish.

Moving some of the blanks from the curing shed to my shop after a 20 year cure. Many are large enough for 2 stocks.

 

[Ancient One]

This load, along with another pickup load, was cut with chainsaws as we were too far back in the forest for access by a logging truck or a loader.

I did not have a Alaskan Mill back then, sure would have made it easier cutting blanks way back in the forest!

You go through a lot of wood searching for the "Grain to Die For"

 

[Eckie]

Ancient one...that is very i interesting . I had never thought about it taking so long to cure a blank and having to do it only air dried. Thats a lot of work and time. And i was thinking 2 years for some slabs to dry for a table was bad...

 

[RockChucker30]

Rockchucker.....i saw these pics the other day when you posted and found them again. That grain color variation is what im interested in. Do you think that is a result of the tree being down for so long, or do you think that tree would have had that look even if it'd been milled when it was green? Maybe i need to start eyeing trees that look too far gone.....

The color in that one is due to being down so long. The tree sat for nearly ten years before I got started milling and had the ability to do something with it. Honestly I thought it'd be too far gone, and parts are but there's a lot of rock hard wood too.

I started cutting up another big red oak that's been down long enough to have 8-10" basal diameter trees growing around it in a field, probably 5-8 years or so. It looks to have a lot of color but not as much as the more rotten looking one.

Fresh cut red oak is nice, but there isn't much color variation.




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[Ancient One]

Ancient one...that is very i interesting . I had never thought about it taking so long to cure a blank and having to do it only air dried. Thats a lot of work and time. And i was thinking 2 years for some slabs to dry for a table was bad...

They take a long time here as this is a wet climate. 11 percent is about as low as they will go.

Now in Nevada or Central Idaho, three to 4 years is long enough.

Biggest problem with stock blanks is they have to be very dry to take the hand rubbed oil finishes. And to be stable. As I mentioned, forced drying (kiln) is bad for gunstock wood.