Who's waiting and for how long?

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Absolutely correct.. and it seems Ben has been absent for a week or so. Perhaps rightly so since the answers he was giving was only making the situation worse. Seems hard to believe the rush is still on for OWB's since the price of oil is waaay down from just a few months ago and the economy's in the dumps as well. We must be the ones that have just enough money to pay the taxes to support everyone else.. : - )

:agree2:


Shaver 165
3 14in Poulans
D-180 Wheel Horse
1054 Bolens
27 ton Huskee splitter ready to be picked up ( Christmas present from my son )


I wasn't fired because I was never hired.

I am here TRYING to help all of you.

But I guess since it is not helping, I should stop wasting my time?

This is my time with my family. (My wife is in bed watching TV right now).

Gone for a week? YES! I have a life outside of Shaver, like raising a 3 year old grand-daughter at 51!
 
Selling is a mistake?

Maybe they fired him, it might be a good first move to digging there way out of the hole he created.
They could use that money to hire a quality control officer.

I created this hole?

By selling furnaces? That's all I did. That's what YOU did too.

What about your big 70 furnace order?
 
When that projection didn't seem to be happening, I called in early AUgust and demanded that they sit down and take as much time as it takes, to tell me exactly where they were at because I didn't want ot be lying to people or even appear to be lying.

At that pont we found that is was more like 17-18 weeks behind. YIKES!

Shortly therafeter I even extended the projection myself to nid-to latter Dec. I posted thqat on the website and told that to all the dealers in an e-mail


Just a FYI, my stove,and 6 others were ordered on 6/19/08 and still havent been delivered. Another delivery date has been postponed,this was the 3rd one they blew. So now they are telling us at least another week before they leave Ark,so at least 2 MORE weeks,putting us into mid december,meanwhile my oil furnace has been running over a month now,as has 6 of my friends and familys,we've all had to buy oil over 2 months ago when it still was expensive,and last week was all 15-20 degree nights with wind. So we are at 22 weeks now,and still no wood boilers. I ordered June 19th!Tomorrow I am going OWB shopping, I'm not 100% sure im jumping ship yet,but I think I've just about hit my breaking point of waiting.Going to look at Central boilers since they seem to have much better insulation and features.
 
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I'm happy with my 290, keeps my house nice and warm. Simple design allows me to tinker with it. Ben an Billy have always responded to me and although it did take 8 weeks for the two boilers I ordered to arrive, It got here. I ordered early (April) because I had a feeling there would be a big run on the stoves, there was and I'm glad I ordered when I did.
 
I'm happy with my 290, keeps my house nice and warm. Simple design allows me to tinker with it. Ben an Billy have always responded to me and although it did take 8 weeks for the two boilers I ordered to arrive, It got here. I ordered early (April) because I had a feeling there would be a big run on the stoves, there was and I'm glad I ordered when I did.

IMO,I'd have been delighted with 8 weeks,we are going to triple that number at this rate.1/2 a yr.I thought i did order early enough to not have any issues.Beleive me if I had known going in this would take 22+ weeks,every one of us would have OWBs up and running right now.As for price weve saved nothing,due to aggravation,and oil bought,mean while our wood sits and cant be used.One of my buddies had to buy 400 gallons of oil in september to hold him over,when it was 3.40 a gallon,while his 13 cord woodpile sat there.
 
Hi!

I apologize for the problems and some serious steps have been taken to correct them.

First, let me explain that Shaver Furnace has been a small, family-run, service oriented business for 36 years.

Due to fast rising fuel prices - and people wanting to eliminate those monthly bills - furnace orders went through the roof.

While it is normally dead from Jan on - with a small spike in Spring, and then dead all summer because it's hot out and people are vacationing; so no one is thinking about heating their homes... THIS year it never slowed down except for one week in late winter.

Quite frankly, while we ramped up tremendously, adding new buildings and welders, etc., we were not prepared on the front-end, because this has NEVER happened before!

Sales TRIPLED from last year, which was already double from the year before.

We have tripled production and have added a new building (90% complete) with huge cranes, as long as a football field is wide. We now have a small train to move 20 cars from the building with all the sheet-metal, to the building where tinning takes place.

Unfortunately, we didn't add staff in the office - mainly because we couldn't! There simply wasn't room. We also weren't aware of the manpower necessary to handle all of the calls.

A lot of people complained that it was always busy but we can't control how many people are calling in!

That is why we added voice-mail. At least a message can be left now AND we did clear out another room for an office, this weekend and had a new VERY GOOD girl, start this past week.

She is on the phone non-stop calling people, to let them know what is going on.

So now it should be 33%, if not 100% better now.

~~~~~~~~~~

We are having the supplier ship out Solarguard now, to avoid shipping delays, because we NEVER intended to be a Solarguard supplier! In fact the manual gives the phone number to Solarguard to find out the closed dealer to you, so you can get it from them. We just TRIED to help as a serive becuase we could sell it cheaper.

About furnace shipping delays, we needed a computer system to handle the tremendous number of orders coming in and to track them.

THAT HAS BEEN DONE and is ready now. All the past orders are being entered now (which takes a lot of time). Dealers will be able to go online to see exactly where their furnaces are in the manufacturing process AND e-mails are automatically sent a different intervals in the process.

When everything is being done on paper (as it was for 36 years, with no prior problem), you just can't keep track of how many sales are taking place when it's like this - let alone project an accurate delivery date.

This was fine 2 years ago - but when orders started coming in from 100 dealers, we simply didn't have a good handle as to what was happening. This was unprecedented. The whole industry was turned upside-down. Any manufacturer that has a good quality product was backordered.

In early August, we sent an e-mail to all dealers advising them that the 7-8 time period (PLUS shipping, which everyone forgets about) was wrong.

As a point of reference, they were told that orders taken on July 23 would be ready Dec 3rd.

Unfortunately some dealers didn't read or remember this or/and didn't tell their customers. Now they were hounding us and we were doing OUR BEST to help but it was too overwhelming. In their defense, many of our customers are new to this, being customers first and then becoming dealers because they liked the furnace so much. Many don't have store-fronts and most probably don't have a lot of business experience. They just love our furnace!

So dealers were supposed to know about the delay and relay it but just like your dealer did, they kept calling asking us and when 100 do that, it's overwhelming and we can't get anything done or even get a clear head!! We certainly can't answer or return all of those calls!

Anyway, I hope that all of that is past.

I assure you, you were NEVER hung up on! We have had non-stop phone problems in the small rural town of Arkansas! The phone lines would just go dead and people would be disconnected. Other times you would call in and there would already be a conversation going on when the phone answered - between 2 other people! Some days only one phone line works. They are polite country folk! No one would ever dream of hanging up on anyone - even when they are terribly rude to the girls.

I hope this addresses some of your concerns. Everything is SO MUCH better now but now we just need to catch up!

Best regards,

Ben (Factory sales - writing from my office on NC)

The above is a quote from you in a post on 10/12/08 on this topic, below is the email you sent me 3 days ago.


Hi Craig,

The disputes only have to do one thing: Too many orders and slow delivery. We've had a perfect reputation for the last 35 plus years!

We acknowledge the problems and we are very sorry - and serious steps have been taken to correct them.

First, let me explain that Shaver Furnace has been a small, family-run, service oriented business for 36 years.

Due to fast rising fuel prices - and people wanting to eliminate those monthly bills - furnace orders went through the roof.

This had been a year beyond belief and quite frankly, we didn't expect such a constant demand for the furnaces!

While it is normally slow from January on - with a small spike in Spring - and then slow all summer (because it's hot out and people are vacationing; so no one is thinking about heating their homes)... THIS year it never slowed down except for one week in late winter.

Quite honestly, while we ramped up tremendously, adding new buildings, equipment and welders, etc. we were not prepared on the front-end, because this has NEVER happened before!

Sales TRIPLED from last year, which were already double from the year before.

We have tripled production and have added a new building (90% complete) with huge cranes, as long as a football field is wide. We now have a small train almost complete, to move 20 cars from the building with all the sheet-metal, to the building where tinning takes place.

Unfortunately, we didn't add staff in the office - a big mistake but mainly because we couldn't! There simply wasn't room. We also weren't aware of the manpower necessary to handle all of the calls.

A lot of people have commented that the phone line was always busy but we can't control how many people are calling in! ..and there were a LOT as most of you know! Everyone wants a furnace now!

That is why we added voice-mail but then people complained about that, so we had it disconnected. At least a message could have been left that way.

We did clear out another room for an office this weekend and had a new office girl start this past week. We are already seeing benefits of this additional help.

For now, she is on the phone non-stop calling people, to let them know what is going on.

So it is at least 33%, better (one extra person) - if not 100% better now, in the communication department.



By the "same", I've noticed quite a few lines that are exactly the same, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you copied and pasted the same email. Yes the truth is the truth, but when someone emails out an explanation and sees it word for word on a post 2 months earlier, it looks like a standardized form. I'll point out a few of your words...

"We did clear out another room for an office this weekend and had a new office girl start this past week"

Well if you hired that girl 2 months ago and hired another last week good for you, now you'll have 2 New girls.

"We have tripled production and have added a new building (90% complete)"

2 months ago, you stated the same thing, your still 90% complete?

I find this whole thing strange. It falls into that old saying...if it smells like S%*T than it is S%*T. Something doesn't add up. I've brought my business elsewhere, I hope you work out your issues and wish you the best. Craig
 
If there is anyone out there with a positive tone for Shaver, let these guys know about it. One doesn't need a scorecard to tally the numbers so far.

Woodfurnace.. exactly what is Shaver telling the people that ordered the coal grate ? Not that I'd want to, but I was under the impression that you could burn coal as they are if you'd want to put up with the hassle of raking the coals and emptying ...

I hesitate to make a statement so early ( approx 2 weeks ownership ) but the draft motor seems to be plenty, at least for wood. I've got my damper down to 1/4 open and it still gets a bit hotter that the thermostat setting. This is not to sing praises of Shavers technology since I think any draft fan set up will fare better than a damper setup as far as keeping the fires burning.

AND... did anyone else let the fire burn from the back toward the front ? Didn't want to but it just sorta got this way on its own since I started it and haven't turned it around yet. I may have to let the fire go out and try it again. Or at least wait for a warm day and let it almost got out and rake the fire front..

:cheers:

For those of you still waiting on your Shaver or still trying to decide on what to buy. My Shaver 165 works great, heats great, and I am completely satisfied. Shaver has a great OWB at a great price. I had to wait a while for mine as well, but to me the wait was worth it! I chose to make a couple of mods, but they were easy fixes. I personally know a guy here in the Midwest who ordered a Natures Comfort burner who has issues with it and can not get NC to take care of it. Same song and dance some here have been ranting about Shaver.
It is obvious to me by reading all of his posts here on the ArboristSite that we have a disenchanted disgruntled ex-Shaver dealer who goes by Woodfurnace on this forum. If you look at most of the posts be responds to he takes a negative jab at Shaver every chance he gets. To me this is getting a bit old, but I know there are some who get a kick out of reading about the conflict. It justs bothers me that someone is trying to use this site to knock one product to promote their new one they are now selling (Natures Comfort). I am for leaving this forum to those who want to communicate and problem solve and not for personal gain. I am sure I am not the only one here getting tired of Woodfurnace's whining.
 
I only know of 2 dozen cancelled orders and then half of those people came back and say forget the cancellation. They wanted the stove after all, after looking elsewhere.

Things are moving forward because they purchased the plant next door and DOUBLED production.

Then why haven't they responded to my cancellation? It's been two and a half weeks and, as soon as I have the time after this holiday weekend, will be kicking the hornet's nest.

No refund, no acknowledgement, no nuthin'
 
Then why haven't they responded to my cancellation? It's been two and a half weeks and, as soon as I have the time after this holiday weekend, will be kicking the hornet's nest.

No refund, no acknowledgement, no nuthin'

For those of you still waiting on your Shaver or still trying to decide on what to buy. My Shaver 165 works great, heats great, and I am completely satisfied. Shaver has a great OWB at a great price. I had to wait a while for mine as well, but to me the wait was worth it! I chose to make a couple of mods, but they were easy fixes. I personally know a guy here in the Midwest who ordered a Natures Comfort burner who has issues with it and can not get NC to take care of it. Same song and dance some here have been ranting about Shaver.
It is obvious to me by reading all of his posts here on the ArboristSite that we have a disenchanted disgruntled ex-Shaver dealer who goes by Woodfurnace on this forum. If you look at most of the posts be responds to he takes a negative jab at Shaver every chance he gets. To me this is getting a bit old, but I know there are some who get a kick out of reading about the conflict. It justs bothers me that someone is trying to use this site to knock one product to promote their new one they are now selling (Natures Comfort). I am for leaving this forum to those who want to communicate and problem solve and not for personal gain. I am sure I am not the only one here getting tired of Woodfurnace's whining.


Your right I am the ONLY person here complaining about Shaver. Wake up and read. It seems that I am the only X-dealer telling the truth about Shaver.
But it seems there are a lot of customers that are not that happy.
I hate to see people who work hard for thier money get jerked around, and lied to. If you read the posts there are people who are sitting on wood ready to be used, but no boiler.
People who have had to buy oil so they can survive, winter is here and they ordered thier Shavers in May, June, July etc.
You think it is whining to try to keep others from getting screwed by Shaver.
I sure hope your Shaver doesn't leak, or the pump or blower doesn't quit. Because there are several out there that are not as lucky as you, and it is COLD now.
 
Your right I am the ONLY person here complaining about Shaver. Wake up and read. It seems that I am the only X-dealer telling the truth about Shaver.
But it seems there are a lot of customers that are not that happy.
I hate to see people who work hard for thier money get jerked around, and lied to. If you read the posts there are people who are sitting on wood ready to be used, but no boiler.
People who have had to buy oil so they can survive, winter is here and they ordered thier Shavers in May, June, July etc.
You think it is whining to try to keep others from getting screwed by Shaver.
I sure hope your Shaver doesn't leak, or the pump or blower doesn't quit. Because there are several out there that are not as lucky as you, and it is COLD now.

My blower quit and I had a replacement from Billy within 2 days :) FYI my blower quit because I had a leak on my pex connector that dripped on it. I appreciate your enthusiasm to protect people, it isn't like Shaver is intentionally trying to cause hardship. I've read your posts on other forums and it's obvious (to me) your simply upset with Shaver and being vindictive. My 290 along with one of my friends are working well. I would have no problem recommending a shaver to a another friend, they are inexpensive, solid boilers. They may not be perfect, but for the money I'm happy.

Now, I understand it sucks to be waiting on an item for such a long time, but other than delivery times, I have yet to hear of a serious structural defect. all electronics are under a 1 year warranty, they respond if you have a service problem. If your going to bash the product, show us some evidence, do you have any pics of the leak? Where was it? How did you remedy the situation? Not trying to cause problems, but lets keep this civil and honest.

Whatever happened to the six 165's you were trying to get rid of on **********? did you sell them or ship them back? I may know a few people who are interested if you want to send me an IM.
 
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I am in Liverpool, NY installing 2 systems this weekend I am not in the office to verify, But at last count there was 2 left, one Brown and one Brick.

The leaks are on a 290 and are so extensive that within 8 hrs or filling it there is 3-4 inches of water in the ash pan. I sent a welder there and he was not sure where all the leaks are. I will be sending someone with a leak detection system this week, but from what I have been told and seen I think Shaver is going to be sending a new furnace, BUT with that said HOW long will this customer have to wait, that is the whole problem.

All 165's


All #####ing aside, I am glad that your furnaces are working well. Believe me I got sucked into the Shaver deception as a dealer, not a customer. I have one responcibility, and that is to my customers. These people , like you, are trying to get off of oil the easiest way they know how. ANd most of them can not afford to be jerked around.

If you want those other boilers let me know.
 
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Then why haven't they responded to my cancellation? It's been two and a half weeks and, as soon as I have the time after this holiday weekend, will be kicking the hornet's nest.

No refund, no acknowledgement, no nuthin'

Been nothing but silence out of Salem...

I had time this morning so I kicked the hornet's nest (several of them, actually).

Now I'll see what shakes loose.

Steve
 
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I feel for ya, too bad for you and the company. You're p.o. at them and rightly so, and they receive negative posts like yours, bad for them. There seem to be few complaints from the people that have them, just getting them seems to be the problem.

Any product thats truly made in the USA I would like to see succeed. The ones that don't have what it takes goes out of business, and thats the way it should be.. ( unless Uncle Sam bails them out and out and out etc etc )


:D
 
Just thought I would let anyone know that still has their Shaver on order, I am getting mine next week and I ordered it in the 1st week of August. I was told that all of the July orders should be done by the end of this month.

As promised, I received my stove today. Now the fun begins.
:chainsaw:
 
As promised, I received my stove today. Now the fun begins.
:chainsaw:

please post pics of your boiler including the coal grate. I want to try burning coal in my 290 this coming week, but don't have the correct grate. Are you going to line your floor with firebrick like they recommend? If you do, post pics of that too please.

Check out the "Shaver Improvement Forum" thread and feel free to borrow any of my ideas. My steam fix is still working over 1 month out.

Does your stove have a thermometer? Where is the light located?
 
please post pics of your boiler including the coal grate. I want to try burning coal in my 290 this coming week, but don't have the correct grate. Are you going to line your floor with firebrick like they recommend? If you do, post pics of that too please.

Check out the "Shaver Improvement Forum" thread and feel free to borrow any of my ideas. My steam fix is still working over 1 month out.

Does your stove have a thermometer? Where is the light located?

Didn't even get a chance to take the plastic off it yet but once I do, i'll get pics.
As far as firebrick, i am not sure if that is the way to go. Correct me if I am wrong but when the inside walls of the firebox heat up, it transfers that heat to the water like it should. Lining the inside with firebrick will insulate the sides away from the heat making it rise to the top thus not making the most out of heat transfer. Or am I missing something.
 
I'm getting my CozyBurn 250 this next week. It's been on order since June, but I think my dealer (very small) dragged his feet to save everyone some shipping costs. I have the building, concrete pad, and pex lines all set. Bring the stove and hook it up and I'll be on my way. I can't wait!
 
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